Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[The Original Sixth]

Waited for the post to get moved.
Now, i see that either your stinking vatnik ass is not getting enough attention for your needs, or your shitty clown\troll act is not getting enough audience for your liking, but either way you have decided to mass tag people you don't like. Bright idea you had there, really...

But don't worry, your own dumbass question is the solution to your problems. Why don't you join the Wagner Group instead of annoying people on obscure internet forums? You would get plenty of company from fellow vatniks and wouldn't need to tag 8 people for attention. Just make sure to enjoy that company under overhead cover, as those 2 guys in the news recently found out, that's not very safe without it.

If you have trouble finding them, they have those huge billboards in major Russian cities.

Russia’s private military contractor Wagner comes out of the shadows in Ukraine war

Mercenary group does not officially exist but is playing a more public role and openly recruiting in Russia

www.theguardian.com

Unfortunately it's not so easy for us on the NATO side. I was looking to join those mythical NATO mercenaries that according to Russian propaganda are responsible for most of their defeats (after all, if i'm going to go fight another nation's war, at least i want to do it in style and be well paid for it) but apparently they skimp on their advertising budget and don't have billboards like that.

Hey guys, don't be mean to Agent23.


This is the first time he's been able to get off all...wait, has it been six months already?

 

[Bacle]

Given what we've seen coming out of Russia, I think even China's basic bootcamp is better than Russia's -- and those dumb fuckers play hot potato with live hand grenades.

sigh

The North Korean's probably have a more comprehensive and useful boot camp than the Russian's do these days.

 

[Jormungandr]

The North Korean's probably have a more comprehensive and useful boot camp than the Russian's do these days.

That I can believe, given how North Korea is North Korea.

 

[StormEagle]

Well, their leadership still seems to believe they're the Soviet Union, so... shrug?

…Again, not to defend the man, but I hate seeing this claim just casually thrown around as if it’s just obviously true.

Putin has done much to distance himself from the old Soviet regimes, while keeping some of their more distasteful and brutal tactics in tact.

To my mind, he’s modeling himself less like Stalin and more like the Tsars. This also goes a long way to explaining his rapprochement with the Orthodox church on behalf of the Russian government and, perhaps, his almost singular focus on bringing Ukraine back in to the Russian fold.

To say that he, or Russians in general, believe they’re rebuilding the Soviet model is, I think, mistaken at the base of it.

This can be dangerous if this is what the west believes is going on. If you do not understand an enemies motivations or, more importantly, their goals it becomes much harder to fight back against them or, ultimately, come to the peace table.

I may be accused of being a Vatnik for thinking this next part, so I feel it necessary to preface it with the following statement.

I do not approve of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I do not support it, though in historical context I’m probably much less offended by it than most westerners, and I find it to be a horrendous waste of life between two nations that should be like kin.

That being said, I find predictions of coming Ukrainian victory, whatever that may look like, possibly overly optimistic.

At the end of the day, the Russians have men and munitions to spare while the Ukrainians decidedly do not have the first one in comparison. Even should they fight Russia back to its own borders, a task I think is significantly harder than many here think, you would be foolish to believe that’s where it ends.

Russia will not stop until the last Ukrainian combatant is spent, and the Western powers will not stop until there is a regime change in Russia.

The fighting will not end at the Russian border, as I believe the west will urge Ukraine ever forward, despite what might be in Ukraine’s best interest.

This is dangerous for obvious reasons. Should the fighting continue past the border, Putin will be ever more tempted to break out the nukes.

I’ve seen it stated that the Oligarchs or generals will overthrow him before it comes to that, but I think it dangerous to base policy decisions that could potentially affect the entire world on assumption and hopeful thinking.

I don’t know how this ends, and I find anyone making bold predictions about victory either way foolish in the extreme.

But that’s just my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth. Which wasn’t a lot even before the economy started pulling an Amber Heard.

Now, I best go prepare for the deluge of vatnik/Putin apologist accusations.

 

[Marduk]

Don't they have an intelligence service to provide targeting data? Or do they just look at old Soviet Maps and then go back to playing Xbox?

FSB is too busy persecuting schoolgirls for politically incorrect views, teaching torture methods to soldiers and having shootouts with drunken ones. Also they probably think google maps is a western conspiracy.
Meanwhile GRU is too busy getting their spetsnaz killed off.

 

[Jormungandr]

…Again, not to defend the man, but I hate seeing this claim just casually thrown around as if it’s just obviously true.

Putin has done much to distance himself from the old Soviet regimes, while keeping some of their more distasteful and brutal tactics in tact.

To my mind, he’s modeling himself less like Stalin and more like the Tsars. This also goes a long way to explaining his rapprochement with the Orthodox church on behalf of the Russian government and, perhaps, his almost singular focus on bringing Ukraine back in to the Russian fold.

To say that he, or Russians in general, believe they’re rebuilding the Soviet model is, I think, mistaken at the base of it.

This can be dangerous if this is what the west believes is going on. If you do not understand an enemies motivations or, more importantly, their goals it becomes much harder to fight back against them or, ultimately, come to the peace table.

I may be accused of being a Vatnik for thinking this next part, so I feel it necessary to preface it with the following statement.

I do not approve of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I do not support it, though in historical context I’m probably much less offended by it than most westerners, and I find it to be a horrendous waste of life between two nations that should be like kin.

That being said, I find predictions of coming Ukrainian victory, whatever that may look like, possibly overly optimistic.

At the end of the day, the Russians have men and munitions to spare while the Ukrainians decidedly do not have the first one in comparison. Even should they fight Russia back to its own borders, a task I think is significantly harder than many here think, you would be foolish to believe that’s where it ends.

Russia will not stop until the last Ukrainian combatant is spent, and the Western powers will not stop until there is a regime change in Russia.

The fighting will not end at the Russian border, as I believe the west will urge Ukraine ever forward, despite what might be in Ukraine’s best interest.

This is dangerous for obvious reasons. Should the fighting continue past the border, Putin will be ever more tempted to break out the nukes.

I’ve seen it stated that the Oligarchs or generals will overthrow him before it comes to that, but I think it dangerous to base policy decisions that could potentially affect the entire world on assumption and hopeful thinking.

I don’t know how this ends, and I find anyone making bold predictions about victory either way foolish in the extreme.

But that’s just my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth. Which wasn’t a lot even before the economy started pulling an Amber Heard.

Now, I best go prepare for the deluge of vatnik/Putin apologist accusations.

Putin still thinks that Russia is the core of the Soviet Union, with all the manpower and resources it entailed.

Russian commanders and leaders have been seen wearing Soviet patches on their uniforms.

They're literally using the doctrines the Soviets were fond of -- sending peasant conscripts into a meatgrinder.

Their tactics involving vehicles, especially their tanks, are straight from the Cold War-era. They haven't changed, despite there being an advancement in technology overall that invalidates most of said tactics.

And now it looks like they're relying on outdated, Soviet-era intelligence that anyone can disapprove by looking up fucking Google Earth.

Let's not forget the underlying aim for this "special operation", too.

Putting all of this together? Yeah, at their core they still think they're Soviet Russia, not Regional Power with Shit Barely Working Russia.

 

[Bacle]

…Again, not to defend the man, but I hate seeing this claim just casually thrown around as if it’s just obviously true.

Putin has done much to distance himself from the old Soviet regimes, while keeping some of their more distasteful and brutal tactics in tact.

To my mind, he’s modeling himself less like Stalin and more like the Tsars. This also goes a long way to explaining his rapprochement with the Orthodox church on behalf of the Russian government and, perhaps, his almost singular focus on bringing Ukraine back in to the Russian fold.

To say that he, or Russians in general, believe they’re rebuilding the Soviet model is, I think, mistaken at the base of it.

This can be dangerous if this is what the west believes is going on. If you do not understand an enemies motivations or, more importantly, their goals it becomes much harder to fight back against them or, ultimately, come to the peace table.

People have filmed and photographed multiple instances of the old Soviet flag on Ru vehicle in Ukraine, and Putin himself has said 'the fall of the USSR was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century'.

The Russian's want the USSR back, and letting it dissolve is part of why Putin denied Gorbachev a state funeral.

At the end of the day, the Russians have men and munitions to spare while the Ukrainians decidedly do not have the first one in comparison. Even should they fight Russia back to its own borders, a task I think is significantly harder than many here think, you would be foolish to believe that’s where it ends.

Just wrong/misinformed.

Ukraine has a year+ waiting list for foreign volunteers at this point, and has not had to push further domestic mobiliztion because they aren't short on manpower. Russia also doesn't have the equipment and training capability to mobile fast or competently anymore, along with a deteriorating domestic situation that is only getting worse.

Russia will not stop until the last Ukrainian combatant is spent, and the Western powers will not stop until there is a regime change in Russia.

The fighting will not end at the Russian border, as I believe the west will urge Ukraine ever forward, despite what might be in Ukraine’s best interest.

And this is you being delusional; Ukraine wants it's 2014 border and for Russia to stop firing across the border, simple as.

The only reason for Ukrainian forces to enter Russia is SOF units doing sabotage of Ru units firing across the border or rescuing kidnapped children.

This is dangerous for obvious reasons. Should the fighting continue past the border, Putin will be ever more tempted to break out the nukes.

I’ve seen it stated that the Oligarchs or generals will overthrow him before it comes to that, but I think it dangerous to base policy decisions that could potentially affect the entire world on assumption and hopeful thinking.

I don’t know how this ends, and I find anyone making bold predictions about victory either way foolish in the extreme.

But that’s just my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth. Which wasn’t a lot even before the economy started pulling an Amber Heard.

Now, I best go prepare for the deluge of vatnik/Putin apologist accusations.

Not Vatnik, but definitely uninformed of the actual realities on the ground and operating off flawed/false assumptions about the state of things.

 

[StormEagle]

Putin still thinks that Russia is the core of the Soviet Union, with all the manpower and resources it entailed.

Russian commanders and leaders have been seen wearing Soviet patches on their uniforms.

They're literally using the doctrines the Soviets were fond of -- sending peasant conscripts into a meatgrinder.

Their tactics involving vehicles, especially their tanks, are straight from the Cold War-era. They haven't changed, despite there being an advancement in technology overall that invalidates most of said tactics.

And now it looks like they're relying on outdated, Soviet-era intelligence that anyone can disapprove by looking up fucking Google Earth.

Let's not forget the underlying aim for this "special operation", too.

Putting all of this together? Yeah, at their core they still think they're Soviet Russia, not Regional Power with Shit Barely Working Russia.

I fundamentally disagree with this assumption. Are there individual leaders and soldiers wearing the Soviet patch? Undoubtedly. But to assign their beliefs to Putin’s mind is, I think, mistaken.

Meat grinder tactics involving throwing peasant conscripts at the front lines have been Russia’s go to long before the Soviets. To assume they want the Soviet empire back based on what tactics they use is questionable.

Good propaganda is good propaganda. Claiming a de-nazification campaign is a good way to drum up patriotic feeling from the Great Patriotic War while also forcing westerners to run cover for the Azov formation.

I’m also not saying that I know Putin’s motivations either, for the record. For all I know, you might be correct. I’m just tired of people saying shit so definitively and not giving air to alternative explanations that might challenge their assumptions.

Ultimately, the only person that fully knows Putin’s motivations is the man himself. And I highly doubt we’re getting a tell all biography at the end of this.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Boris Yeltsin was one the worst things to ever happen to Russia, Like his incompetence led to nearly everything that is happening now.

 

[StormEagle]

Boris Yeltsin was one the worst things to ever happen to Russia, Like his incompetence led to nearly everything that is happening now.

On that, we can definitely agree. I’d also lay the blame at Stalin’s feet.

 

[Megadeath]

The North Korean's probably have a more comprehensive and useful boot camp than the Russian's do these days.

Yeah. For starters you have to grow up in NK without getting eaten by wolves. Or other north Koreans.

 

[Jormungandr]

I fundamentally disagree with this assumption. Are there individual leaders and soldiers wearing the Soviet patch? Undoubtedly. But to assign their beliefs to Putin’s mind is, I think, mistaken.

Meat grinder tactics involving throwing peasant conscripts at the front lines have been Russia’s go to long before the Soviets. To assume they want the Soviet empire back based on what tactics they use is questionable.

Good propaganda is good propaganda. Claiming a de-nazification campaign is a good way to drum up patriotic feeling from the Great Patriotic War while also forcing westerners to run cover for the Azov formation.

I’m also not saying that I know Putin’s motivations either, for the record. For all I know, you might be correct. I’m just tired of people saying shit so definitively and not giving air to alternative explanations that might challenge their assumptions.

Ultimately, the only person that fully knows Putin’s motivations is the man himself. And I highly doubt we’re getting a tell all biography at the end of this.

We can only go by what has been seen, what has been said, and what they're aiming to do by their own admittance.

From my perspective, this is Russia trying to be the Soviet Union again and failing hilariously, in a dark way.

All this war has shown is that they're barely even a paper tiger now, despite their ambitions.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Looks like Bolton, the traitorous war-mongering piece of shit, is back on his bull again. Screeches about how we "need to neutralize Russia!" and how we should fire the nukes. That guy really is stuck in the cold war. Someone ought to take him to the back of the shed.
EDIT:

 

[Scottty]

The Russian's want the USSR back, and letting it dissolve is part of why Putin denied Gorbachev a state funeral.

Not really fair to old Gorby. That political system was crumbling, and there wasn't really anything he could have done to save it.

As to whether the Russians want the USSR back, might I suggest a different take?
The USSR was merely the most recent implementation of a Russian policy that goes back to well before the Communist takeover - the Russian heartland being protected by conquering all the bordering nations, and ruling them as subordinate provinces.
The old Imperial Russia liked to style itself as the latest incarnation of the Roman Empire. And in some ways it fits - the Roman Republic also expanded in part due to paranoia, but also so that they could do a whole lot of looting. Most of Rome's cool technologies came from other people they had conquered.
Eventually Rome had expanded its empire to the point where the boundaries were ocean, desert, and peoples who could not be conquered, or who were simply not worth the expense of conquering.
And having run out of anything to feed on, it began to decline.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Looks like Bolton, the traitorous war-mongering piece of shit, is back on his bull again. Screeches about how we "need to neutralize Russia!" and how we should fire the nukes. That guy really is stuck in the cold war. Someone ought to take him to the back of the shed.

Bolton said we should nuke Russia? I disagree with him on a lot but I thought he was more tethered to reality than that.

 

[Captain X]

Dude, you actually paying attention? I am cheering on the fact that the SBU's various offices and other militarily significant targets are getting blown up.
Meanwhile you are falling for some bullshit about deliberate targeting of civilians, which I find to be nonsense.

This is one of the most pathetic attempts at gaslighting I've ever seen.

 

[Captain X]

I linked him directly to the video showing the playground with the giant crater in it.

He still denies.

He has achieved full-on 'My narrative is stronger than any evidence' status.

Yup, he's gone full NPC.

 

[ATP]

Yeah, yeah, Evil Putler is the worst butcher of the past millennia, worse than Stalin, Hitler,Mao, Temijin and Genghis Khan, and ther Chinese emperor that genocides lots of rebels in some civil war and all of the various leaders from Gustavus Adolphus, Wallenstein and Cardinal Richelieu down to the lowliest Croatian mercenary Sargeant in the 30 Years War, so sayerh the Ghost of Kiiv Press and all the establishmentdrian US news rags and their Twatter bots.

No,so far he "only" genocided 200.000 chechens,some georgians,up to 50.000 ukrainians and plan to do the same with rest.And us,poles,too.
Not important here - problem is,that you are supporting him against ukrainians who want live on their own land.
And,now he is murdering cyvilians when his army is running.It is not show of strenght,but weakness.
You not only choosed genocider as your champion,but weak one,too.

P.S Temujin and Genghis Khan are the same persons.And,he at least was succesful genocider who builded great empire in which people live better then before.
Something which commies as putin always failed to deliver.

P.S.S No,i never said that putin is powerfull.Only that he invaded free country ,started genocide,and now is loosing.
Worst kind of genocider - weak one.
And you are rootiong for that failure.

 

[LordsFire]

Boris Yeltsin was one the worst things to ever happen to Russia, Like his incompetence led to nearly everything that is happening now.

I'm not going to try to claim he was a saint, but something a lot of people are missing, is that he accomplished a key objective:

He kept the Communists from coming back into power.

His entire time as the leader of Russia was spent in a power struggle to prevent a reversion to communism. There's a lot of other shit he didn't accomplish, and if he'd pushed a little harder to keep things from developing into the oligarchic system it did Russia would have been much better for it, but...

In your condemnations of the man, do not forget what he did manage to achieve.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I'm not going to try to claim he was a saint, but something a lot of people are missing, is that he accomplished a key objective:

He kept the Communists from coming back into power.

His entire time as the leader of Russia was spent in a power struggle to prevent a reversion to communism. There's a lot of other shit he didn't accomplish, and if he'd pushed a little harder to keep things from developing into the oligarchic system it did Russia would have been much better for it, but...

In your condemnations of the man, do not forget what he did manage to achieve.

He was a drunk and his economic "shock" policy and rewriting of the constitution to make the president far more powerful led to the current oligarchy and the rise of Vlad. No that guy was an utterly inept fool, Also his increasing of executive power caused the Chechen conflicts.