It also had a containment structure, unlike Chernobyl.
Fukushima is the fault of the Yak contractor putting the back up diesels in the basement in a tsunami zone.
Conservatism and the Environment
- Thread starter Bacle
- Start date
Fukushima is the fault of the Yak contractor putting the back up diesels in the basement in a tsunami zone.
bintananth
behind a desk
Chernobyl is the result of the operators doing everything wrong.
At Kyshtym some radioactive waste exploded because it wasn't stored properly.
Windscale ... an air cooled reactor with hot graphite in it is a brilliant idea which can not possibly go wrong.
At Three Mile Island some water got into a compressed air line because a check valve was stuck open.
Note: Three Mile Island could have been completely avoided if there were two check valves instead of one, but many of the other safety flaws in US nuclear powerplants of the day would not have been discovered without that meltdown.
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ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
Based on my research? Undetectable.
No one died during the event itself and any potential increase in cancer vanished in the normal randomness of cancer.
The reason we remember Three Mile Island as a terrible catastrophe is entirely because of how the media at the time reported it.
"Workers are being exposed to so much radiation over their shifts, the safe daily dose is so much less"
Maybe, but there are ways to protect workers from radiation while working lol. No mention of that in the Times.
"Government Experts say it's safe, but these other experts have numbers about how terrible it is!"
Those other experts ignored half a dozen+ other factors and the government experts did have numbers of their own lol.
I did a paper on it like threeish years ago, the actual scientific papers couldn't find any actual damage caused by Three Mile Island, the News(using New York Times as an easily located source) insisted the sky was falling.
EDIT:
At the time of the Plant construction they hadn't found any records of a Tsunami nearly that big in the region, then they found records of something smaller than what actually hit but bigger than they'd previously planned and fixed it to handle waves a bit bigger than that. Then they found records of a Tsunami about as big as what actually hit it, the plans to fix it were literally in committee when the Tsunami hit. The plant as it was still would have been fine except for the earthquake, followed by the Tsunami which STILL would have been fine except for how damaged transport infrastructure got delaying things for too long.
Fukushima was nearly fine, it was a confluence of problems any one of which wouldn't have created disaster, any two of which probably wouldn't have, and all three of which still didn't make nearly as much of a problem as people say fossil fuels are.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Probably still wasn't a good idea to setup those backup generators below sea level though.
Green objection to nuclear have no connection with any rational assessment of the threats involved. Their reaction to Fukushima is quite telling of it - they used it to push through a decision to close nuclear power plants in Germany, a country famous for... its total lack of serious earthquakes and tsunamis.
Bigking321
Well-known member
We would all be much better off if everyone just accepted that the green movement just uses environmental stuff as a cover for socialism.
Promoting actually environmentally friendly solutions that wouldn't negatively impact people? Nah.
Saying that we have to radically alter our entire lifestyle to save the planet in vague unverifiable ways that just so happen to give leftists all the power and authority they could ever want?
Why, the only thing better than that would be a global pandemic they could use to ignore the rule of law and seize power (for the publics own good of course) with the media backing them up!
Promoting actually environmentally friendly solutions that wouldn't negatively impact people? Nah.
Saying that we have to radically alter our entire lifestyle to save the planet in vague unverifiable ways that just so happen to give leftists all the power and authority they could ever want?
Why, the only thing better than that would be a global pandemic they could use to ignore the rule of law and seize power (for the publics own good of course) with the media backing them up!
bintananth
behind a desk
On a similar note: one of my sisters wrote a paper about the medical care soldiers got during the Civil War when she was in HS.
That is considered by those who don't understand what .58" ball does to someone as a horrific series of doctors saying "fuck it" and just chopping off limbs.
Um, that's not true. If a Union or Confederate casualty actually got prompt medical attenton they had an 80% chance of survival at a time when doctors didn't have access to any antibiotics and were not yet convinced that washing their hands and tools with soap and water was a very good idea.
LindyAF
Well-known member
They won’t, and IMO fusion is a perpetually-twenty-Years-off distraction from fission, which would work now.
Yet.
ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
Maybe, but I expect there's a reason that if I could find if I looked into it well enough. Not sure where to start looking for "Fukushima Planning Records" but if I find them I'll PM you.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
I've got a study that goes into everything that was wrong with Fukushima; probably a good place to start.
bintananth
behind a desk
The only reason Fukushima is one of the world's worst nuclear disasters is in human history is because it got hit by something its safety systems weren't designed handle.
ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
Every Nuclear Accident I've studied have the causes down to "Human Error". Three Mile Island was entirely preventable, but there was a sticky note on top of the warning light for that exact scenario. In part because of just how obtuse the controls in general were, and in part because at the time the Nuclear Safety Commission was super focused on the sort of problems that created immediate booms and so the manual safety systems were kind of crap and the training was worse. There'd even been smaller accidents of exactly the same type that had ALREADY happened and demonstrated the existing flaws that caused Three Mile Island, but the Nuclear Safety Commission was not interested.
EDIT:
That abstract reads almost exactly like Three Mile Island lol.
Imma finish the rest of it though
. TY.
Fukushima was literally hit by something it wasnt rated for. An earthquake and a Tsunami.
Three mile island could have been prevented yes, but it was the worst US disaster and compare it to Chernoyble and Fukushima it is small
Why have these criteria | INES e-learning
OTOH Three Mile Island is also proof that good containment systems can turn what could be a pretty nasty nuclear accident otherwise into a nothingburger, as that's what happened there.
ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
Ok, having read the whole thing, that's a lot more damning of the initial tsunami risk assessment than any of the sources I found when doing my paper. But it also makes a ton of sense. And I find myself firmly agreeing with the abstract, that we really need some sort of standards for safety assessments.
Yes but why wasn't it rated for it? The SAME Tsunami and Earthquake hit several other reactors in the same region and none of them had an issue.
Uh...Fukushima was the closest to it and was hit by the brunt of it....
He breaks it down very well about why it happend and why it went the way and others.
Long story short, it was the closest to the incident.
Whitestrake Pelinal
Like a dream without a dreamer
The punchline of the story being the German use of coal-fired power plants to fill the gap, something anyone involved knew had to happen... but the "greens" did it anyway. Years later, they're laying it on thick regarding the coal plants their own irresponsible actions made necessary. Meanwhile, their precious solar/wind initiatives are held up by their own stupid bureaucracy and thoughtless over-regulation.
Germany Flirts With Power Crunch in Nuclear and Coal Exit
www.bloomberg.com
Looks like Germans may have to get used to rolling blackouts in the mid 20s if they want to Save The Planet.
The punchline of the story being the German use of coal-fired power plants to fill the gap, something anyone involved knew had to happen... but the "greens" did it anyway. Years later, they're laying it on thick regarding the coal plants their own irresponsible actions made necessary. Meanwhile, their precious solar/wind initiatives are held up by their own stupid bureaucracy and thoughtless over-regulation.
Germany Flirts With Power Crunch in Nuclear and Coal Exit
Looks like Germans may have to get used to rolling blackouts in the mid 20s if they want to Save The Planet.
Germans seem to take everything too far.
Whitestrake Pelinal
Like a dream without a dreamer
I think it's a function of our wide romantic streak.