Election 2020 Discussion Of Voter ID Laws. ( What A Boring Thread Title For A Hot Button Topic.)

[Abhishekm]

It tends to be a partisan effort to shift the election by making it extremely difficult for certain categories of people to register to vote and/or have necessary ID. For example, Alabama passed very strict voter ID laws in 20-15, then specifically closed every single DMV office in counties that had a strong majority of black voters. After a storm of criticism, the governor offered to have one driving examiner show up for one day each month in each of the 31 counties that no longer had a DMV office.

Again, that still sounds like a call for more public service access or regulations against foulplay than it does for not having IDs. I know people probably have something in place but I honestly can't see how not requiring some form of verification other than just asking a name wouldn't be in place.

Its like saying politicians use permits or licensing as a tool so have no licensing process or requirement. I mean you need something more than just stated ability or right as proof right?

Like the solution to politicians including tax loopholes for themselves isn't to have no tax returns process. Or something to that effect. Eh, just ignore that last bit I'm not good at thinking up examples or whats the word? Quips?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I don't disagree with you; it's simply that you asked what the situation currently is.

 

[Battlegrinder]

I'd add that while @ShadowArxxy is correct in that ID has been used to target black voters by the right and you can find plenty of sources backing up that claim, I would be wary of those source's conclusions as to why they did that, which tend to be variations of "republicans are all evil racists that hate black people".

The more plausible reason, IMO, is that black americans are demographically unique in that they overwhelming vote for for the one party to the tune of like 90% or something, which also makes them a unique target for such measures, since the party doing it doesn't risk any real damage to their own voter base. Hence why you see so many complaints about that, and fewer complaints about scummy power grab measures that are equally useful or those that favor democrats.

 

[Megadeath]

I can kinda see where he is coming from though Megadeath. I mean the US has a lot of influence in the world sure but that doesn't mean the people in it have any less of a stake in their home or how it lives that anyone else.

If half the world critiqued and mocked every party and person in Australia or India or anyone elses home I think we would ask why they were getting so involved in anothers home too. America's a world power sure but to the people in it its still THEIR country, you know?

Hey, I'm certainly not saying he can't have a say. I'd agree that the people who live there have even more of a stake in the issue, and should certainly be allowed tto voice their opinion. I do think the idea that someone can't have an opinion or voice it because they're not american is stupid though.

 

[Megadeath]

I'd add that while @ShadowArxxy is correct in that ID has been used to target black voters by the right and you can find plenty of sources backing up that claim, I would be wary of those source's conclusions as to why they did that, which tend to be variations of "republicans are all evil racists that hate black people".

The more plausible reason, IMO, is that black americans are demographically unique in that they overwhelming vote for for the one party to the tune of like 90% or something, which also makes them a unique target for such measures, since the party doing it doesn't risk any real damage to their own voter base. Hence why you see so many complaints about that, and fewer complaints about scummy power grab measures that are equally useful or those that favor democrats.

Is it less racist if they do a bad thing that intentionally disproportionately targets a particular race for pragmatic reasons rather than malicious ones? I'd strongly disagree with that idea personally.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Is it less racist if they do a bad thing that intentionally disproportionately targets a particular race for pragmatic reasons rather than malicious ones? I'd strongly disagree with that idea personally.

I'd actually go farther than that, and say that racist behavior requires a malicious motive in order to be accurately labeled as such.

 

[Megadeath]

I'd actually go farther than that, and say that racist behavior requires a malicious motive in order to be accurately labeled as such.

I'd say there is malicious motive, it's just not malice aimed directly at that race. Intentionally disenfranchising people nominally guaranteed the right to vote is itself a malicious act. By your definition, genocide wouldn't be racist so long as you commit it specifically to benefit another group, rather than because you hate the target.

 

[lordmcdeath]

The ID issue could be handled in ways to solve both issues, but unfortunately we would need to trust one another to really make it work. Or at least work out some way to solve the issue so both sides are equally unhappy.

Part of the issue is that we have to deal with the ID issue is that it happens in the toxic background of things like Poll Taxes and Tests, many of which were part of Jim crow. That comes up especially in the south.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

"PLEASE STAND BY"

Alright new thread! Now everybody, last thread went into derail 'really fast' over this subject, and was starting to slowly get heated, so I ask that we not loose our head over the issue and keep it civil.

Now back to the discussion!

***STATIC***

 

[GoldRanger]

Nah, you just turn up, they check your name on a register, you vote. You do have to register to vote before hand, but that's as far as things go.

So if I know your name I can just show up, say I'm you and vote however I want, rinse and repeat with a list of names. Is there any sort of protection against this?

 

[Captain X]

That sounds more of a call for those remote locations to get some infrastructure or public office development than it does for not having a ID system in place.

Like so a loose assortment of farmsteads in the middle of the Arizona desert or some such dont have 5 dollar bus routes to and from a city dmv. So have a periodic local stall opened up to do voter ID processing.

I assume they must have something like that or another system they get other IDs and documents already. Is that really a valid reason to legally ban requiring IDs in down town LA?

To be frank, people living in these remote locations have transportation, and it isn't any great burden to get into a county courthouse or a DMV. After all, people need to be able to get groceries and other supplies out to where they live. This is a big part of we people in rural areas are much more negatively impacted by fuel prices going up. This idea that non-white people are unfairly burdened by any kind of ID law is complete fantasy, and ignores the reality of already needing an ID for so many things in life anyway. It's just a narrative created to justify making it easier to commit voter fraud, which the Democratic Party aims to benefit themselves.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

As a canadian, the idea that you can vote without an ID is down right insane.

*sighs*

It's not that you can vote without ID. It's that the primary point at which a voter's identity is verified is at *registration*, not at the point of vote. At the point of vote, there is no way to correlate an ID to valid voter status.

Several states also generally have voter ID requirements, but waive those requirements for specific categories of voters, such as people who claim to have a religious objection to photo ID. This is. . . a tricky one to navigate Constitutionally, as you can't legally just dismiss it as BS even in cases where it clearly is.

 

[Typhonis]

We already have a way to ensure voter ID , if the States and government would work together. If you can get an SSN and a photo ID the two could be checked against each other to ensure So and So is actually who he or she claims they are.

I mean you need photo ID to do a lot of things. Connect it to your SSN and you are golden. Shoot use the last four digits as a pin number. In the military the first letter of your last name plus the last four of your SSN are used as a laundry mark.

 

[Buba]

Not sure if pertinent - in my country (which like all in Europe has obligatory ID) in an attempt to curb hooliganism on football grounds the Authorities made fans (I use the term loosely) apply for a "football ID". Getting a "football ID" required showing their "citizen ID".
As the most ardent "fans" in my town have (hopefuly had) a high percentage of criminals - petty or otherwise - they did not wish to be carded. In consequence the ciminals and their homies/family demonstrated outside the local stadium and beat up some fans who had problems with showing their ID's ...

 

[bullethead]

You know, back in the first gun control thread on SB, I proposed something that would solve a lot of the issues regarding voter ID and what not.

IIRC, it was a randomly generated hash value that was initially generated when your SSN was created, and this value would be included on your driver's license/ID and used for voter ID, NICS checks, and basically everything the SSN is used for now. If it gets compromised, you could just get a new value generated, along with a replacement driver's license/ID.

 

[Doomsought]

My solution is to link everything to taxes. You status as a resident is based on claiming residency against property taxes. Your voter registration comes back with your tax return.

This reduces the surface area for attack, and attacks that would otherwise be ignored due to discretion won't because now tax fraud is involved.

 

[Greengrass]

My solution is to link everything to taxes. You status as a resident is based on claiming residency against property taxes. Your voter registration comes back with your tax return.

This reduces the surface area for attack, and attacks that would otherwise be ignored due to discretion won't because now tax fraud is involved.

There are a few problems with that. 1) If you make below a minimum amount, you aren't actually required to file a tax return. 2) Renters don't pay property taxes directly. 3) Homeless people are also still allowed to vote.

 

[Doomsought]

3) Homeless people are also still allowed to vote.

I don't see why they should.

 

[GoldRanger]

I don't see why they should.

Because America is not a plutocracy?

 

[Doomsought]

Because America is not a plutocracy?

The perminantly homeless are poeple who litteralyl have issues with drugs and/or mental illness so bad that they cannot keep a roof above their head. They are in no position to be making decisions about themselves, let alone the whole country.