EU Dutch Farmers Protest Megathread

Skallagrim

Well-known member


what do you think of this skall?

I agree with a lot of this. WhatIfAltHist is very perceptive when it comes to a variety of topics, although there are points where I thing he's completely off-base. Believe it or not, I generally consider him to be too positive, in that he thinks the crisis of this century will just be "weathered" by everyone, and then it'll be kind of "back to normal".

Conversely, I have a more macro-historical view. Instead of just looking at generational cycles (which he does), I also like to look at the greater cycles of history, which imply a far more disruptive period yet to come.

Where he depicts a "post- EU multi-polar order" within Europe, I expect violent collapse into military anarchy. Whereas he points out the problem of an aging population, I attach to that the horrible kinds of consequences that he only implies (e.g. terror-regimes that set up euthanasia centres for the elderly).



He does reference macro-history, in The coming Caesars (which is great), but the way he speaks about it reveals a lack of (deep) familiarity with Spengler, Toynbee and Quigley -- who 100% informed and even shaped the thinking of Riencourt. His view near the end of the video (which is at odds with som of his other "suggestions"/"options"!) strikes me as highly accurate.



As far as Russia in concerned, I'm pretty sure (for a variety of reasons that I've previously outlined in dicussions on this site) that Russia is going to splinter apart into warlord states, and that -- yes -- countries like Poland will see a considerable resurgence. By contrast, he briefly shows a resurgent Germany in his view of a possible "post- EU multi-polar order". I think that's bullshit. Germany is going to be a failed state, and although Poland has demographic issues now, it will actually see those solved when its young population is replenished by daring young Germans and Russians who escape their failing regions and seek a better life in Poland (and surrounding countries). Yes, Intermarium may happen still.



I have some doubts about his views regarding the EU as a whole. He compares it to the Catholic Church, but that ignores how powerful (and deeply-rooted!) the Church was for much of history. The EU is a bureaucratic imposition. He also severely under-estimates its (domestic!) political power. The EU is geo-politically weak, but more than 80% of the legislation imposed within EU member states is based entirely on directives from Brussels.

Internal instability and geo-political failure makes the EU much akin to the leagues of the Hellenistic Kingdoms and the anti-Qin coalitions in ancient China. (In this comparison, the USA stands in for Rome and Qin.) The Europeans tried to stay relevant through unity, but all sorts of internal grievances prevented them from being as coherent as the (culturally already far more monolithic) Americans. Thus, they EU has been suborned and basically turned into an appendage for American hegemony. (The same thing happened to the Hellenistic and Chinese states, who were likewise unable to effectively compete with Rome and Qin, respectively.)

Bottom line: the American imperium is in many ways already here.



Generally speaking, he predicts a Europe that remains far more independent than it would realistically be. Europe will instead be a fucking mess, and America will hve to restore order. This time, definitively. Europe, like Greece long ago, will just become part of the Empire. An integral part, even.

The populist right is already strongly allied with the American populist movement. Hilariously, despite their nativist ideas, the populists are very much set to become a true "international", and will be the basis of a pan-Western "imperialist" faction.



Incidentally, his comment about "not being surpised if one European country kills the rich elite or expels its immigrants" is hilariously under-stating it, too. I expect this to happen everywhere. In America, the underclass can be united despite race. I've said it before: once the elite's hand-outs dry up (because the economy goes terminal), the blacks and latinos will become right-wing populists within a decade. Then, they and the white working class unite to literally hang the elite from lamp-posts.

But in Europe, the non-whites are mostly Muslims, who are non-compatible, culturally. Being functionally Islamic settler enclaves, they tend to be pretty radical, and they want a caliphate. They want Europe to be islamic. So when social order collapses, many European cities (or segments thereof) will become mini-caliphates. It'll be like have five thousand little versions of ISIS all over (Western) Europe. This ends in genocide, and no doubt about it.

(It'll almost certainly be the Muslims who all get genocided, by the way. Total carnage. By the end of the century, Europe will be a Very Very Christian continent again. And the "Mohammedan" will be seen as sub-human vermin; the target for renewed Crusades.)



All in all: very interesting essay, but his use of text-walls annoys me a lot (just read those points out, man!) and he tends to mix up a lot of different "possible scenarios" without properly differentiating between them. I'd prefer a video that more rigidly outlines multiple possible scenarios.



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I desperately hope that things won’t go so horribly wrong…which probably means that they will. :(

edit: that said I’m not an expert on Europe
As I said above: it's going to be much worse. WhatIfAltHist is ultimately an optimist.
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Looks like the Dutch Farmers Surrendered.

They're turning over their Nitrate based fertilizers to the Government en masse.



Shitty situation all around. 😞

I'm almost sure I saw one where they poured shit on someone related to the government.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
I agree with a lot of this. WhatIfAltHist is very perceptive when it comes to a variety of topics, although there are points where I thing he's completely off-base. Believe it or not, I generally consider him to be too positive, in that he thinks the crisis of this century will just be "weathered" by everyone, and then it'll be kind of "back to normal".

Conversely, I have a more macro-historical view. Instead of just looking at generational cycles (which he does), I also like to look at the greater cycles of history, which imply a far more disruptive period yet to come.

Where he depicts a "post- EU multi-polar order" within Europe, I expect violent collapse into military anarchy. Whereas he points out the problem of an aging population, I attach to that the horrible kinds of consequences that he only implies (e.g. terror-regimes that set up euthanasia centres for the elderly).



He does reference macro-history, in The coming Caesars (which is great), but the way he speaks about it reveals a lack of (deep) familiarity with Spengler, Toynbee and Quigley -- who 100% informed and even shaped the thinking of Riencourt. His view near the end of the video (which is at odds with som of his other "suggestions"/"options"!) strikes me as highly accurate.



As far as Russia in concerned, I'm pretty sure (for a variety of reasons that I've previously outlined in dicussions on this site) that Russia is going to splinter apart into warlord states, and that -- yes -- countries like Poland will see a considerable resurgence. By contrast, he briefly shows a resurgent Germany in his view of a possible "post- EU multi-polar order". I think that's bullshit. Germany is going to be a failed state, and although Poland has demographic issues now, it will actually see those solved when its young population is replenished by daring young Germans and Russians who escape their failing regions and seek a better life in Poland (and surrounding countries). Yes, Intermarium may happen still.



I have some doubts about his views regarding the EU as a whole. He compares it to the Catholic Church, but that ignores how powerful (and deeply-rooted!) the Church was for much of history. The EU is a bureaucratic imposition. He also severely under-estimates its (domestic!) political power. The EU is geo-politically weak, but more than 80% of the legislation imposed within EU member states is based entirely on directives from Brussels.

Internal instability and geo-political failure makes the EU much akin to the leagues of the Hellenistic Kingdoms and the anti-Qin coalitions in ancient China. (In this comparison, the USA stands in for Rome and Qin.) The Europeans tried to stay relevant through unity, but all sorts of internal grievances prevented them from being as coherent as the (culturally already far more monolithic) Americans. Thus, they EU has been suborned and basically turned into an appendage for American hegemony. (The same thing happened to the Hellenistic and Chinese states, who were likewise unable to effectively compete with Rome and Qin, respectively.)

Bottom line: the American imperium is in many ways already here.



Generally speaking, he predicts a Europe that remains far more independent than it would realistically be. Europe will instead be a fucking mess, and America will hve to restore order. This time, definitively. Europe, like Greece long ago, will just become part of the Empire. An integral part, even.

The populist right is already strongly allied with the American populist movement. Hilariously, despite their nativist ideas, the populists are very much set to become a true "international", and will be the basis of a pan-Western "imperialist" faction.



Incidentally, his comment about "not being surpised if one European country kills the rich elite or expels its immigrants" is hilariously under-stating it, too. I expect this to happen everywhere. In America, the underclass can be united despite race. I've said it before: once the elite's hand-outs dry up (because the economy goes terminal), the blacks and latinos will become right-wing populists within a decade. Then, they and the white working class unite to literally hang the elite from lamp-posts.

But in Europe, the non-whites are mostly Muslims, who are non-compatible, culturally. Being functionally Islamic settler enclaves, they tend to be pretty radical, and they want a caliphate. They want Europe to be islamic. So when social order collapses, many European cities (or segments thereof) will become mini-caliphates. It'll be like have five thousand little versions of ISIS all over (Western) Europe. This ends in genocide, and no doubt about it.

(It'll almost certainly be the Muslims who all get genocided, by the way. Total carnage. By the end of the century, Europe will be a Very Very Christian continent again. And the "Mohammedan" will be seen as sub-human vermin; the target for renewed Crusades.)



All in all: very interesting essay, but his use of text-walls annoys me a lot (just read those points out, man!) and he tends to mix up a lot of different "possible scenarios" without properly differentiating between them. I'd prefer a video that more rigidly outlines multiple possible scenarios.



-------------------------------------------------




As I said above: it's going to be much worse. WhatIfAltHist is ultimately an optimist.

“Hmm, perhaps not all hope was lost after all.” — Hitler as he observes from Hell, probably. :(

More seriously, while I know you believe the Populists are set to become a “true Internationale”—or as close to that as realistically possible, at least—I wouldn’t be surprised to find ethnonationalist terrorist factions in the margins akin to Dirlewagner-esque SS units or European versions of the Khmer Rouge running around for a bit. Who knows, maybe some of them would try to obtain loose nukes in the chaos, given how they’d easily go missing in an all-out collapse into military anarchy. If nukes got lost when the USSR dissolved as peacefully as it did, then surely, that could happen here, too.
 

DarthOne

☦️
micusrp8gxa91.png
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
AND Magazine has some articles.
 

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