Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Well, Avellone's not working for them anymore, so it might be good. Though given how Bethesda has been trying to avoid doing direct sequels I doubt we'll actually get New Vegas 2 even if they gave obsidian another crack at it.
New Vegas Remaster maybe; fix the bugs, redo the script a bit to restore cut options (House joining NCR ending, for example), and release with updated graphics.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Avellone is a complete asshat who will keep pressing that reset button again and again if he was in charge. That's why he got the boot in the first place.

He's talented though and understands Fallout that can't be denied, I'd rather have an asshat that puts out a superior product than a dumbass like Emil Pagliarulo who doesn't even understand the difference between themes and things and thinks Fallout is a 1950's themed ruble shooter.
 
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DarthOne

☦️
Avellone is a complete asshat who will keep pressing that reset button again and again if he was in charge. That's why he got the boot in the first place.

Something which wouldn’t be necessary if they didn’t keep doing multi-decade long time skips or did stories set in the same general time, but in different parts of the setting. Which could range from different parts of the USA to, say, Europe.
 
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LTR

Don't Look Back In Anger
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Never Forget... We were going to Win The Resource Wars When the Cowardly Red Chinese Decided to Launch Nukes today.



Still a victory is a victory and Red China was knocked back to the Stone Age with Communism Successfully Eradicated from the World.

I don't want to hear any of this "bothsame" BS either. America got the 'W.' You are welcome. Especially Canada.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
The Enclave are the true survivors of the war
The Enclave are the assholes who tried to wipe out most of the human survivors on the planet, besides their little clique, with the FEV.

The Enclave's only legitimacy came from the barrel of a gun or the end of a syringe, and literally the only faction worse than them is Caesar's Legion; even the druggie/raider gangs gave better excuses for their behavior than the Enclave does.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
The Enclave are the assholes who tried to wipe out most of the human survivors on the planet, besides their little clique, with the FEV.

The Enclave's only legitimacy came from the barrel of a gun or the end of a syringe, and literally the only faction worse than them is Caesar's Legion; even the druggie/raider gangs gave better excuses for their behavior than the Enclave does.
Not all Enclave are the same. East coast with the president wanted the right thing.
The COL Autumn was the asshole.

Enclave deserve an actual story
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Not all Enclave are the same. East coast with the president wanted the right thing.
The COL Autumn was the asshole.

Enclave deserve an actual story
Oh, the Enclave do have a story, just not one that makes them hero's or patriots.

The are the decents of traitors who, instead of trying to help rebuild the US after the war, were content to simply try to hide in the oil rig and the few small mainland bases.

House is more of a hero than the Enclave, and frankly the only reason the Enclave has their nice gear now is because House controlled RobCo before the war and made most of it for them. Heck, House tried to get the pre-War gov to adapt his ABM tech, and they seemed to have ignored him out of arrogance. I mean, if even a 1/4 of the pre-war Us the Enclave claims to represent had the same tech as Vegas, the country would likely have remained a functional entity. Like, when Vegas has a better ABM shield the DC, somethings fucked up. And the Zetans never got into House's shit, either his computers or into Vegas itself.

The Enclave never made any attempt to say, aid the Followers of the Apocalypse (Arcade was helping them in exchange for hiding in their ranks, even if they may not have known about his background), who actually attempted to make the wasteland better for charitable reasons and would have welcomed something resembling an legit successor org to the US Federal gov.

And the FEV/modified FEV is the real cherry on top. It's pre-war existence is why there is a BoS to begin with, and when the Enclave found Mariposa and decided to try to make another round of FEV, they showed they were genocidal madmen. Autumn wanted to use the Purifier to spread his own bit round of FEV covertly, which is still genocidal.

Just because they painted the Stars and Strips on their power armor does not remove the fact that the Enclave is led by genocidal assholes, and filled with people ok with following genocidal assholes, so long as they claim to represent the remnant of the pre-war gov.

The Enclave is evil, and no cool graphics or patriotic paintjobs will change that.
 

Duke Nukem

Hail to the king baby
Never Forget... We were going to Win The Resource Wars When the Cowardly Red Chinese Decided to Launch Nukes today.



Still a victory is a victory and Red China was knocked back to the Stone Age with Communism Successfully Eradicated from the World.

I don't want to hear any of this "bothsame" BS either. America got the 'W.' You are welcome. Especially Canada.


America will rise again, like a Phoenix.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Bacle,
I can claim any faction is better then another.
The Enclave had members that wanted to do right.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
Bacle,
I can claim any faction is better then another.
The Enclave had members that wanted to do right.

We can say that about most factions that people consider evil. The Terran Empire, did (such as stylish Spock). The Galactic Empire did in both canons. Most Sith Empires did. The Tau and the IoM definitely do (in fact the major of them want to do the right thing). The Brotherhood of NOD clearly did. Red Alert Soviets have a few examples as I recall. I could even bring in real life examples, but I will not, as to avoid a fight.

The fact is that they are evil, and having good or people with the right intentions doesn't change anything. The fact that most of those factions have good people doesn't change the fact that they should be vanquished, or in the case of the IoM or Tau- if they weren't the defacto "good guys" of the setting and their defeat allowing the victory of even worse forces. And also, we literally have Raiders who only wanted to do the right thing (e.g. Libertalia) and we still smoke them like cigarettes in an old noir film.

The Enclave is no different. The organization is evil, and at times moustache twirlingly evil. As I recall, their plot would have killed 99% of the world's population. So, really, I don't think that makes it any better. And, of course, you can claim any faction is better than another, but that does not make it true or not absolve the argument of being sophistry.

Also, the Enclave is literally the swamp, so it boggles the mind that anyone here would support them.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
We can say that about most factions that people consider evil. The Terran Empire, did (such as stylish Spock). The Galactic Empire did in both canons. Most Sith Empires did. The Tau and the IoM definitely do (in fact the major of them want to do the right thing). The Brotherhood of NOD clearly did. Red Alert Soviets have a few examples as I recall. I could even bring in real life examples, but I will not, as to avoid a fight.

The fact is that they are evil, and having good or people with the right intentions doesn't change anything. The fact that most of those factions have good people doesn't change the fact that they should be vanquished, or in the case of the IoM or Tau- if they weren't the defacto "good guys" of the setting and their defeat allowing the victory of even worse forces. And also, we literally have Raiders who only wanted to do the right thing (e.g. Libertalia) and we still smoke them like cigarettes in an old noir film.

The Enclave is no different. The organization is evil, and at times moustache twirlingly evil. As I recall, their plot would have killed 99% of the world's population. So, really, I don't think that makes it any better. And, of course, you can claim any faction is better than another, but that does not make it true or not absolve the argument of being sophistry.

Also, the Enclave is literally the swamp, so it boggles the mind that anyone here would support them.
Because they are cool.
It's like why support Chaos in 40k.
They are cool.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Then you shouldn't try to pretend they aren't villains, because that seems to be a large problem with the fanbase.
I think tje main issue is that we arnt given a choice.
We are given the choice to join Ceasers legion.
Ya know, the Rome wanna bes. That do horrible stuff yet are never given the option to join the Enclave.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
I think tje main issue is that we arnt given a choice.
We are given the choice to join Ceasers legion.
Ya know, the Rome wanna bes. That do horrible stuff yet are never given the option to join the Enclave.

The Legion was intended to be a "viable" choice, but most of the content that would have showed it was cut. The Legion actually had a "good" side, and actually made the wasteland safe for their subjects (the non-slaves). Also, Caesar actually wanted to make a stable and safe state to succeed the Legion. The Enclave, really doesn't have it, and the PCs who actually encounter them...would have any possible reason to.

There may be a game where it would actually work, but you'd need a compelling reason to join them.
 

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