Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

[Morphic Tide]

X-01 power armor is somehow Pre-war despite being Enclave armor, which cannot possibly exist until hundreds of years into the future. So already that is all fucked up, especially because it's very unlikely that T-45d power armor can share parts with Enclave Armor Mk2.
X-02 is even more nonsensical because not only was it inferior to T-51b in FO3, the OG enclave armor never HAD the designation of X-01. So why would they name it's sequel after an obscure quantum soda armor over two hundred years old?

The original Enclave armor didn't have a model number, just "Advanced Power Armor" and "Advanced Power Armor Mark II". Them being the resumption of development of a platform started pre-war fits in just fine with all the repurposing of FEV and lingering infrastructure the Enclave gets up to. The notion is that the Commonwealth prototypes are analogous to the hardly even mentioned t-51a, while the FO2 suits are later revisions of the same baseline design the way t-51b became "the standard".

The inferior performance of X-02 is then the result of being supply-crunched into outright "monkey models" alongside the Brotherhood having incrementally improved their suits the entire post-war period. To point at game stats, the visibly worn-out FO3 Tesla armor is still better than the standard-issue version, while over in FO4 T-45d and T-51b are nearly equivalent in protection, and T-51f is comparable to T-60d and X-01 Mark II.

The "scaling" of FO4 armor is that each "model" is roughly two "marks" better, so good condition X-02 would be expected to start at X-01 Mark III, T-60e, or a hypothetical T-51g. Excellent condition and well-modified T-51f doing better than worn-down and "barebones" X-02 is thus justifiable.

The simplest explanation remains "visual retcon", but the defensive inferiority being tied to mechanics in the next tile regarding early instances versus late very slightly implied by t45d vs. t51b in FO2 and 3 is a fairly "clean" compromise.

 

[Navarro]

I would note that in in vanilla Fallout 3, there is exactly one auit of T-51b available, and it's in absolutely pristine condition. Even if we take in game stats as gospel (which I wouldn't do), all that suggests is that a suit of perfectly persevered pre-war armor is better than a post-war design that was engineered for mass production by someone with far less resources than the prewar us. That seems fairly plausible.

It's a game mechanic - you start getting Enclave armour in FO3 around the midgame, whereas the T51 is a unique piece of gear you get by doing a bonus dungeon - notably the Hellfire armour in Broken Steel, a DLC item, is directly comparable to the ingame T51 while having better stat boosts. FNV presents X-02 (as cut content, but still) as being slightly stronger than FO2-era APA while FO4 presents X-02 as being as good as X-01, which IMO both make sense.

 

[Typhonis]

I always enjoyed the Winterised T-51 from Operation Anchorage. Of course if you do THAT before meeting 3 Dog a chunk of the game vanishes.

 

[TheRejectionist]

This looks good.

As long as it doesn't end up like the frontier...

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

The most harmonious explanation I've heard is that X-01 isn't enclave armor, it's a prewar design that was eventually developed into the Mk2 by the enclave later.

Though the most likely answer is that Bethesda doesn't particularly care to.be bound by the lore of a decades only game that they didn't make and that most of the current player base has not played.

Yeah I have heard that thing as well, but it makes so little sense given it's alien appearance compared to T-51b.

It'd be like America skipping from the M4 Sherman to the Abrams. Also the fucking thing was gifted to a soda company lmao.

I would note that in in vanilla Fallout 3, there is exactly one auit of T-51b available, and it's in absolutely pristine condition. Even if we take in game stats as gospel (which I wouldn't do), all that suggests is that a suit of perfectly persevered pre-war armor is better than a post-war design that was engineered for mass production by someone with far less resources than the prewar us. That seems fairly plausible.

The Brotherhood are pretty advanced, I reckon they can keep one in absolutely pristine condition as well. You can also get it hardened in FO1-2 to make it even tougher. I don't think anyone actually 'produces' the suits postwar due to their complexity, damned thing contains a fusion reactor. XD

Alternatively, if we back port mechanics from fallout 4, it's possible that the only suits of T51 available there were A or B model suits vs high end enclave armor, va low end A or B model X-02 in 3 vs a suit of F or G model T51.

An issue, both FO1-2 and FO3 call it explicitly T-51b, which apparently was the overwhelmingly most common model. (Or the others just didn't exist because FO4 is retcon garbage D:<<<<< )

As for the naming, if the X-01 was developed into the MK2 suit from 2, then the successor to that might have started out as the X-02, and that design was rushed into production after the enclaves defeat in 2, where it retained the X-02 designation.

That sort of works but also seems nonsensical if you port it to other military hardware.
Like okay lets say we have a tank, the M40.
M40 design is taken by a nation and is renamed the Lion of Enclave tank.
Then it's further improved down the line and for some reason instead of Lion of Enclave Mk2 they name it M41, despite having had nothing to do with the M40.
The Enclave must REALLY suck at paperwork, or just want more busywork.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Spoiler: snib

The original Enclave armor didn't have a model number, just "Advanced Power Armor" and "Advanced Power Armor Mark II". Them being the resumption of development of a platform started pre-war fits in just fine with all the repurposing of FEV and lingering infrastructure the Enclave gets up to. The notion is that the Commonwealth prototypes are analogous to the hardly even mentioned t-51a, while the FO2 suits are later revisions of the same baseline design the way t-51b became "the standard".

The inferior performance of X-02 is then the result of being supply-crunched into outright "monkey models" alongside the Brotherhood having incrementally improved their suits the entire post-war period. To point at game stats, the visibly worn-out FO3 Tesla armor is still better than the standard-issue version, while over in FO4 T-45d and T-51b are nearly equivalent in protection, and T-51f is comparable to T-60d and X-01 Mark II.

The "scaling" of FO4 armor is that each "model" is roughly two "marks" better, so good condition X-02 would be expected to start at X-01 Mark III, T-60e, or a hypothetical T-51g. Excellent condition and well-modified T-51f doing better than worn-down and "barebones" X-02 is thus justifiable.

The simplest explanation remains "visual retcon", but the defensive inferiority being tied to mechanics in the next tile regarding early instances versus late very slightly implied by t45d vs. t51b in FO2 and 3 is a fairly "clean" compromise.

That's a whole lotta words to ultimately come down to 'FO4 fucked with the lore and should be ignored'. XD

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

This looks good.

As long as it doesn't end up like the frontier...

what happened to frontier?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

what happened to frontier?

Smelly feet fetish people, underage sex enslavement fetish people, deathclaw fucking fetish people, and underground unity-store asset flip snake people drug party goer sex fetish peoples making the game lmao.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Smelly feet fetish people, underage sex enslavement fetish people, deathclaw fucking fetish people, and underground unity-store asset flip snake people drug party goer sex fetish peoples making the game lmao.

That was the game that started the deathclaw/human hyvrid meme?!?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

That was the game that started the deathclaw/human hyvrid meme?!?

Oh no, not at all. Deathclaw anthros have existed far before that.

 

[Morphic Tide]

Also the fucking thing was gifted to a soda company lmao.

Actually it's that the soda company's chemists did the coating on that prototype. It's like if a seemingly-random paint factory got a prototype stealth bomber hanging in its HQ because its' where the rather-complicated paintjob for the production units came from.

That's a whole lotta words to ultimately come down to 'FO4 fucked with the lore and should be ignored'. XD

The visual retcon take is saying FO3 overrides the FO2 sprites on what the Enclave's "Advanced Power Armor Mark II" looks like, with the different supply situations remaining part of the lorewise explanation for inferior performance. The core of the issue is very much one term used for two things.

FO4 just says that the "Advanced Power Armor" was working from pre-war technology, which is not at odds with the statements regarding failure to robustly improve on pre-war technology from Fallout 2.

 

[TheRejectionist]

what happened to frontier?

Smelly feet fetish people, underage sex enslavement fetish people, deathclaw fucking fetish people, and underground unity-store asset flip snake people drug party goer sex fetish peoples making the game lmao.

These were the main reason the mod got taken out the day it got realesead.
Also NCR campaign was a copycat of various games, most notable examples were Call of Duty and Dead Space.
I have seen the Lovecraftian-inspired missions from Mikeburnfire and those looked excellent.

If you want to understand the situation, these guys made two videos on it :

 

[DarthOne]

Oh no, not at all. Deathclaw anthros have existed far before that.

For the love of God… just, damn furries.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

For the love of God… just, damn furries.

Afraid so, they've been at it for a while now.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Does anyone here actually know how to play caravan? I have been meaning to figure out how to play that since like 2010.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Does anyone here actually know how to play caravan? I have been meaning to figure out how to play that since like 2010.

Kinda... the basic idea is you start with a deck of cards and after shuffling it obviously, you make a bet and then you and all of the other players build three "caravans" of cards.

Each caravan can only be built with cards with numbers in ascending or descending order.
All of the face cards have special powers that I'd have to look up in the game (or the wiki I guess) to remember.

So you start with eight cards to build your three caravans.
Your goal is to build at least two+ Caravans of Cards.

So each turn after the initial caravan building you can:
You can draw the card from your deck or from your caravans.
Or you can discard the card drawn from your deck.
Disband a caravan which removes all cards to your discard deck.

Play a Number Card in an ascending or descending order (based on the previous numbers of the Caravan)
Play a Number One Card on any Caravan.

And looking up Face Cards, you play them on a particular number card in your caravan:
Jack: Discard the Card you Play it On
Queen: Reverse the Order of your Caravan (ascending or descending) by playing it on the last number card in said caravan
King: Doubles the value of the card it is played on.
Joker: Play it on an Ace Card and that REMOVES/discards all of the number cards of the same suite as the ace card from BOTH players caravans.

You win the game by selling two caravans for between 21-28 number value and your opponent has only sold one.
Or you win the game by selling all three caravans.
Or you win the game if you both have the equal number of caravans to sell but your combined caravan value is higher then the equal number of caravans (two or three) that your opponent is selling.
Or you lose if you run out of cards in your deck.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Kinda... the basic idea is you start with a deck of cards and after shuffling it obviously, you make a bet and then you and all of the other players build three "caravans" of cards.

Each caravan can only be built with cards with numbers in ascending or descending order.
All of the face cards have special powers that I'd have to look up in the game (or the wiki I guess) to remember.

So you start with eight cards to build your three caravans.
Your goal is to build at least two+ Caravans of Cards.

So each turn after the initial caravan building you can:
You can draw the card from your deck or from your caravans.
Or you can discard the card drawn from your deck.
Disband a caravan which removes all cards to your discard deck.

Play a Number Card in an ascending or descending order (based on the previous numbers of the Caravan)
Play a Number One Card on any Caravan.

And looking up Face Cards, you play them on a particular number card in your caravan:
Jack: Discard the Card you Play it On
Queen: Reverse the Order of your Caravan (ascending or descending) by playing it on the last number card in said caravan
King: Doubles the value of the card it is played on.
Joker: Play it on an Ace Card and that REMOVES/discards all of the number cards of the same suite as the ace card from BOTH players caravans.

You win the game by selling two caravans for between 21-28 number value and your opponent has only sold one.
Or you win the game by selling all three caravans.
Or you win the game if you both have the equal number of caravans to sell but your combined caravan value is higher then the equal number of caravans (two or three) that your opponent is selling.
Or you lose if you run out of cards in your deck.

That is convoluted as fuck, Its like some weird ass fusion of solitaire and blackjack with a dash of Magic the gathering.

 

[Husky_Khan]

That is convoluted as fuck, Its like some weird ass fusion of solitaire and blackjack with a dash of Magic the gathering.

I dunno. Once you play it the games not too bad to get a hang of. Only real issue is the Joker card that's kinda lame IMHO.

It's basically like three games of blackjack I suppose with fancy face card stuff.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Yeah I have heard that thing as well, but it makes so little sense given it's alien appearance compared to T-51b.

It'd be like America skipping from the M4 Sherman to the Abrams. Also the fucking thing was gifted to a soda company lmao.

I'm not sure why you're arguing that it can't be successor to the T51 and T60 because it's too radical a change in looks. We went from the M14 to the M16, and the M60 Paton to the M1 Abrams, which were fairly radical shifts in terms of looks, function, etc.

Also, it wasn't "gifted" to a soda company, a soda company was tasked with working on elements of it, which is not at all uncommon in a total war situation. IBM made guns back in WW2, for a famous example.

The Brotherhood are pretty advanced, I reckon they can keep one in absolutely pristine condition as well. You can also get it hardened in FO1-2 to make it even tougher. I don't think anyone actually 'produces' the suits postwar due to their complexity, damned thing contains a fusion reactor. XD

No, they cannot keep one in pristine shape. They can keep it in working order and maybe even within spec, but if you're using a piece of equipment constantly, day in a day out, it's going to suffer from wear and tear.

An issue, both FO1-2 and FO3 call it explicitly T-51b, which apparently was the overwhelmingly most common model. (Or the others just didn't exist because FO4 is retcon garbage D:<<<<< )

Could also just be a catch all term for any T51 suit. I imagine most people in WW2 would call any Sherman tank a "Sherman" or "M4" regardless of it's exact model number.

That sort of works but also seems nonsensical if you port it to other military hardware.
Like okay lets say we have a tank, the M40.
M40 design is taken by a nation and is renamed the Lion of Enclave tank.
Then it's further improved down the line and for some reason instead of Lion of Enclave Mk2 they name it M41, despite having had nothing to do with the M40.
The Enclave must REALLY suck at paperwork, or just want more busywork

I think you misunderstand. The X-02 is not a further refinement of the X-01 or APA Mk2. It's the replacement.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

I think I am in a minority here but I actually like the aesthetics of the X-02 power armor.