Gun Political Issues Megathread. (Control for or Against?)

[Doomsought]

That's like saying that anyone who doesn't have 20/20 vision should be banned from owning a motor vehicle.

Doing that would also save more lives too.

 

[Megadeath]

This is the post your first comment in this vein was responding to

Doesn't appear to say anything about armed tanks, cruise missiles, destroyers, or nuclear weapons?

Not directly, no. But it does say "No restrictions" which would inherently cover everything from machine guns to nuclear weapons. There's also this post, which I didn't quote, but was responding to:

The intent of the Constitution, as expressed by its authors, is that I am supposed to be able to own naval artillery. I go so far as to I condone the private ownership of Nuclear explosives.

You're the one that started talking about planes, trains, and automobiles. Then when it was pointed out to you that the logistic concerns of the elites owning carriers would make it a totally non-viable option for them, and this became "a hyperbolic point." Then when I try to take it out of the realm of hyperbole, and show that your original objection doesn't really make any sense there either, now you were only discussing the hyperbolic scenario? Goalposts moving so quick I'm not sure whose are whose anymore.

See, you're talking about loosening restrictions on machine guns, whereas other people are actually arguing that much heavier weapon systems should be legal. In the case you're discussing you are absolutely right that it doesn't particularly favour the rich. In the case I'm discussing, the rich are. I used a carrier force as an exaggerated example to make the point, but the argument holds true even if the mega rich are actually limited to only fielding an armoured division.

there's also a general and repeated assumption that I'm suggesting these mega rich could use their arms to topple the government or something, which I've already said isn't my point but I guess it's worth repeating here. Owning a machine gun or two doesn't let the average citizen topple the local police department either.

 

[Chaos Marine]

 

[Bear Ribs]

That's like saying that anyone who doesn't have 20/20 vision should be banned from owning a motor vehicle.

Perhaps not, but if Stevie Wonder is cruising the highways in a Roadster something is definitely wrong with that situation and the law should address it.

 

[ShieldWife]

I dunno, but Chris Kyle's death stands out as an example of why people would want to ban people with PTSD from having guns.

🤦‍♀️

One murder in a nation of 300+ million and we ban everyone with that issue from one of the most fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Following that line of logic would be a recipe to abolish every right and freedom.

 

[LordsFire]

🤦‍♀️

One murder in a nation of 300+ million and we ban everyone with that issue from one of the most fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Following that line of logic would be a recipe to abolish every right and freedom.

It's a recipe to abolish existence, period.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

I normally don't care much to comment on firearms related news outside the political debate aspect, due to both a lack interest in firearms and ownership of one. However, my curiosity just beckoned me and I decided to up the bill in question on the U.S. gov website and look at this!

All Info - S.736 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): A bill to regulate assault weapons, to ensure that the right to keep and bear arms is not unlimited, and for other purposes.

All Information (Except Text) for S.736 - A bill to regulate assault weapons, to ensure that the right to keep and bear arms is not unlimited, and for other purposes.

The above it literally the bills name and definition! The first part pulls no punches in describing the purpose of the bill, but the final word is having me thinking that half the U.S. defense budget is slapped on in a rider somewhere! 😋

 

[Clanner Moment]

https://archive.is/pjtdL

California Attorney General Xavier Becerra’s office quietly signed a settlement agreement in federal court admitting his agency’s gun-registration website was so poorly designed that potentially thousands of Californians were unable to register their assault weapons and comply with state law.

Found this example of Democrat politicians failing upwards, this time related to California's broken AR registration scheme. But hey, Joe's gotta have that Dream Team.

Nevada lawmaker who survived massacre pushes ‘ghost gun’ ban

CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) — A proposal to ban build-your-own weapons known as “ghost guns” is sparking passionate for-and-against arguments in the Nevada Legislature, just over three years after Las Vegas experienced the deadliest mass shooting in modern U...

apnews.com

One state over the NV Dems are pushing to ban "ghost guns".

“Continued violent incidents have left both Nevadans and Las Vegas visitors questioning the safety of our community,” she said.

Translation: Californian transplants.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

Well, with that shooting last night and two gun control Bill's already in Congress Biden seems to be taking the initiative.

 

[Battlegrinder]

It's the same "Now is the time to act. When emotions are running high and no one is thinking clearly! We must do something now, and couldn't have possibly done this two weeks ago, for reasons" crap they always try. It didn't work the last dozen times, it's not going to work now, particularly when millions and millions of people have just become first time gun owners and will know them dems are full of it.

 

[Captain X]

I wonder if the grocery store was a gun-free zone. Also, with a name like Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa, 21, surely this fits into the narrative about straight white males being the only mass shooters.

 

[Cherico]

It's the same "Now is the time to act. When emotions are running high and no one is thinking clearly! We must do something now, and couldn't have possibly done this two weeks ago, for reasons" crap they always try. It didn't work the last dozen times, it's not going to work now, particularly when millions and millions of people have just become first time gun owners and will know them dems are full of it.

Any one who falls for this shit after 5 months of rioting proving that the cops will not protect you when your life is in danger is an idiot.

 

[Megadeath]

The violence in Boulder was America’s seventh mass shooting in seven days.

On March 16, eight people were killed as a gunman attacked a series of spas in Atlanta, Georgia.

The next day, five people were injured in a drive-by shooting in Stockton, California.

On March 18, four people were shot and taken to hospital in Gresham, Oregon.

On March 20, five people were shot at a club in Houston, Texas.

The same day, eight people were shot in Dallas, resulting in one death.

And a shooting at a party in Philadelphia, also on March 20, killed one person and injured five more.

You guys realise this shit isn't normal, right? In any other first world country any one of these would be major news. In the US it all just sort of blends together.

Gun deaths per 100,000 population:

Australia	0.88
France	2.33
Germany	1.04
UK	0.2
South Africa	10.47
Philippines	7.72
Mexico	11.55
USA	12.21

 

[Captain X]

 

[Doomsought]

You guys realise this shit isn't normal, right? In any other first world country any one of these would be major news. In the US it all just sort of blends together.

Those European nations not having criminals killed by their would be victims are in the wrong.
Gun violence is part of the Human Right to self defense. Everyone deserves to have the chance to kill anyone who tries to victimize them.

 

[Morphic Tide]

You guys realise this shit isn't normal, right? In any other first world country any one of these would be major news. In the US it all just sort of blends together.

First, compare gun murders because "gun deaths" include the suicides that aren't going away without quite specifically punishing law-abiding citizens for society being fucked, then see what happens to the number when you take out the 14% demographic responsible for the plurality.

"Gun deaths" aren't remotely unusual for a first world country where it's a first world country. It's the ghettos being violent shitholes, not that the US has a stupid amount of guns.

E: Hell, by the way the numbers break down an ideal solution is banning sidearms. "Assault weapons" have quite a number of properties extremely unfavorable for the groups responsible for gun deaths (expensive, bulky ammo, can't be concealed without specialized outfits or skills, often touchy maintenance, already watched like a hawk), it's all on the cheap handguns.

 

[Megadeath]

Those European nations not having criminals killed by their would be victims are in the wrong.
Gun violence is part of the Human Right to self defense. Everyone deserves to have the chance to kill anyone who tries to victimize them.

In which of the incidents I mentioned were "criminals killed by their would be victims"? How well did the idea that only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun work out in any of those recent tragedies?

 

[LindyAF]

pressing X to doubt second world and third world countries numbers on this one

 

[Bear Ribs]

The violence in Boulder was America’s seventh mass shooting in seven days.

On March 16, eight people were killed as a gunman attacked a series of spas in Atlanta, Georgia.

The next day, five people were injured in a drive-by shooting in Stockton, California.

On March 18, four people were shot and taken to hospital in Gresham, Oregon.

On March 20, five people were shot at a club in Houston, Texas.

The same day, eight people were shot in Dallas, resulting in one death.

And a shooting at a party in Philadelphia, also on March 20, killed one person and injured five more.

You guys realise this shit isn't normal, right? In any other first world country any one of these would be major news. In the US it all just sort of blends together.

Gun deaths per 100,000 population:

Australia	0.88
France	2.33
Germany	1.04
UK	0.2
South Africa	10.47
Philippines	7.72
Mexico	11.55
USA	12.21

Yeah, but those figures are deeply deceptive. By going off only gun deaths you get to ignore anybody killed with non-gun weapons and pretend only guns matter and people stabbed didn't die, and also they roll suicides into murders to inflate the gun numbers and imply there's more violence than there really is.

Look at murders per 100,000 and you get a different picture.

Australia	0.89
France	1.2
Germany	0.95
United Kingdom	1.2
South Africa	36.4
Philippines	6.46
Mexico	29.07
United States	4.96

 

[LindyAF]

From wikipedia

Around 57 people are murdered in South Africa every day.[52] The murder rate increased rapidly in the late-1980s and early-1990s.[53] Between 1994–2009, the murder rate halved from 67 to 34 murders per 100,000 people.[54] Between 2011–2015, it stabilised to around 32 homicides per 100,000 people although the total number of lives lost has increased due to the increase in population.[55] There have been numerous press reports on the manipulation of crime statistics that have highlighted the existence of incentives not to record violent crime.[56] Nonetheless, murder statistics are considered accurate.[57] In the 2016/17 year, the rate of murders increased to 52 a day, with 19,016 murders recorded between April 2016 to March 2017.[58] In 2001, a South African was more likely to be murdered than die in a car crash.[59] In September 2019, the Nigerian president boycotted the Africa Economy Summit in Cape Town because of the riots against foreigners that left many dead.[60]