Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel

[Skallagrim]

Yes. Ancient Jewish wisdom - Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
The "Hamas Rebellion" has roots in the landgrab and ethnic cleansing which began after WWI and led to creation of an apartheid practising Jewish state.

The very existence of Hamas -- indeed, of muslims in the Levant (or anywhere outside the Arabian peninsula) at all -- has its roots in the landgrab and ethnic cleansing that began immediately in the wake of Muhammed's time and led to islamic oppression and terror in counless regions where muslims don't belong at all.

Including the region that is now Israel, which had been the homeland of the Jews for at least 1500 years before islam ever came to exist.

As such, we must not reverse culpability here. It is the muslims who have taken the land of others, and who must thus reap the whirlwind of their own making.

 

[IndyFront]

What for? To make Israel act stupidly and cucked regarding this proxy of one of China's proxies in the same way they act themselves regarding China's proxies?
Biden just want the Dearborn voters for the election and acts stupid to try ensure they don't stay home on the election day in protest.

No, to not give antisemites unending ammunition to propel their delusions and not give Hamas future recruits to continue attacking Israel, which is exactly what is going to happen if Israel continues being genocidal toward the Palestinians and breaking international law...

Israel is already acting cucked and stupid. Netanyahu is a bitch of the far-right extremists, and IDF stupidity in Gaza is recruiting more Hamas and gaining them allies overseas.
Cucked and stupid.

 

[Marduk]

No, to not give antisemites unending ammunition to propel their delusions and not give Hamas future recruits to continue attacking Israel, which is exactly what is going to happen if Israel continues being genocidal toward the Palestinians and breaking international law...

If Israel was being genocidal towards the Palestinians, you would think that after a few decades of that they would no longer be there, or at least there would be a lot less.

So two "optics" concerns that exist only in the heads of people who have their own axe to grind against Israel, and only so because they are convenient for sharpening it.
Hamas has an indoctrination pipeline North Koreans would kill for, they don't need "muh sad pictures" to care like idiot western teenagers on social media.

Israel is already acting cucked and stupid. Netanyahu is a bitch of the far-right extremists, and IDF stupidity in Gaza is recruiting more Hamas and gaining them allies overseas.

Cucked and stupid.

No, Islamism is what gets Hamas and the likes of it all the recruits they need and then some already. The "its gaining them allies" argument is pure axe grinding every time a leftist uses it to simp for their islamist allies. What *new* allies did it get them? You think college leftists hate Israel only since 2023? Dude, get real.
Meanwhile look at the other side. They can do whatever the fuck they want, they can use the Geneva Convention as a checklist in their war, and does it lose them any allies? Does it get Israel recruits? Does it get Israel new allies? Why is it that the other side never, ever has to give a damn about those lefty concerns, and the leftists who profess to love it and want to give this shit advice to western powers don't act outraged, concerned or "advisory" about it either? Why do these arguments "work" only one way and only in the heads of people who could be assumed to give bad advice to the faction they don't like?

 

[IndyFront]

If Israel was being genocidal towards the Palestinians, you would think that after a few decades of that they would no longer be there, or at least there would be a lot less.

Jews still exist today, was the Holocaust not genocidal? I'm sorry but I cannot take this line of thinking remotely seriously.

So two "optics" concerns that exist only in the heads of people who have their own axe to grind against Israel, and only so because they are convenient for sharpening it.

Nope. There are a lot more people like me - Centrist, believer in the rule of law - who simply dislike nation-states and governments that break international law and mass-murder civilians.

Hamas has an indoctrination pipeline North Koreans would kill for, they don't need "muh sad pictures" to care like idiot western teenagers on social media.

The point is that Biden and the other Zionists have dug their own grave, by going so hard with their own axe to grind against the left in general (while conveniently never talking about the Communist bioterrorism that killed over 7 million people across the world while fearmongering about a bunch of "idiot western teenagers" as you put it accurately, ironically.

No, Islamism is what gets Hamas and the likes of it all the recruits they need and then some already. The "its gaining them allies" argument is pure axe grinding every time a leftist uses it to simp for their islamist allies. What *new* allies did it get them? You think college leftists hate Israel only since 2023? Dude, get real.

No, but public opinion in the US and elsewhere has deteriorated due to the conduct of the IDF in Gaza, and no it's not all pro-Hamas and Islamist and leftists, those are fringe ideals.

Meanwhile look at the other side. They can do whatever the fuck they want, they can use the Geneva Convention as a checklist in their war, and does it lose them any allies? Does it get Israel recruits? Does it get Israel new allies? Why is it that the other side never, ever has to give a damn about those lefty concerns, and the leftists who profess to love it and want to give this shit advice to western powers don't act outraged, concerned or "advisory" about it either? Why do these arguments "work" only one way and only in the heads of people who could be assumed to give bad advice to the faction they don't like?

I actually agree, there should be just as much focus on the horrors of Neo-Communism and Islamism, as mentioned earlier the COVID-19 was likely a bioweapon through gain of function research as Rand Paul grilled Fauci about, and the U.S. was also involved in this catastrophe.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

It probably depends on what is meant by malice. I believe the broad-strokes accusation is that Israel did everything it could to delegitimize and cripple peaceful opposition, even unto the point of aiding violent opposition. So (if you grant the accusation) malice is involved, but not specifically "my objective is to get Jews killed" malice.

I think Israel correctly assessed that "peaceful" opposition was almost entirely a Trojan horse for violent opposition, and that it was a potentially existential threat given how vulnerable Israel is to having Western support undermined by PR. So even if it's true that they enabled Hamas, doing so was a matter of pragmatism -- it's not as if they created the faction out of whole cloth.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Jews still exist today, was the Holocaust not genocidal? I'm sorry but I cannot take this line of thinking remotely seriously.

That's a strawman though -- the point is that Israel has clearly isn't trying to commit genocide, because they have the capability for actual indiscriminate destruction and have spent decades refraining from using it. Even if you think their use of force is disproportionate, it's absolutely incontestable that they have consistently gone far out of their way to limit collateral damage.

 

[prinCZess]

Jews still exist today, was the Holocaust not genocidal? I'm sorry but I cannot take this line of thinking remotely seriously.

Jewish population numbers certainly declined during the Holocaust. Palestinian population over the last decades have not.

It's also recognizable that Palestinian flight from 'Palestine' or Israel is not necessarily connected to actions by Israel driving them out (it may be, but it is not certain)--Hamas is a prison-gang within Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank is no sterling example of governance or representation by any means. Further, Israel attempting to recognize and enforce an international border between 'Palestine' and their own country--as Hamas and the PA both claim to *want*--isn't a convincing argument?

Regular outbreaks of violence by Hamas against Israel, even in the decades since unilateral Israeli withdrawal from all settlements in Gaza, also make it very clear that even if Israel is done with Palestinians, Palestinians 'government' (at least in Gaza) is not done with them.

Broadly speaking, we know Israel isn't committing an active campaign of genocide and murder because Israel has possessed the capability and impetus to do so for decades without actually doing so. One might argue that is changing in the modern day with the push into Gaza, but to do so requires ignoring all Palestinian (Hamas, to be more specific, as we should be) provocation and the efforts Israel visibly takes to both limit civilian casualties (aid routes and evacuation notices and routes have, in fact, been set up) and allow aid convoys and the like into the region (this despite Hamas regularly stealing that aid to profit or benefit themselves instead of Gaza's people...Or firing rockets into aid routes for whatever benefit they think that gives them).

 

[IndyFront]

Jewish population numbers certainly declined during the Holocaust. Palestinian population over the last decades have not.

It's also recognizable that Palestinian flight from 'Palestine' or Israel is not necessarily connected to actions by Israel driving them out (it may be, but it is not certain)--Hamas is a prison-gang within Gaza and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank is no sterling example of governance or representation by any means. Further, Israel attempting to recognize and enforce an international border between 'Palestine' and their own country--as Hamas and the PA both claim to *want*--isn't a convincing argument?

Regular outbreaks of violence by Hamas against Israel, even in the decades since unilateral Israeli withdrawal from all settlements in Gaza, also make it very clear that even if Israel is done with Palestinians, Palestinians 'government' (at least in Gaza) is not done with them.

Broadly speaking, we know Israel isn't committing an active campaign of genocide and murder because Israel has possessed the capability and impetus to do so for decades without actually doing so. One might argue that is changing in the modern day with the push into Gaza, but to do so requires ignoring all Palestinian (Hamas, to be more specific, as we should be) provocation and the efforts Israel visibly takes to both limit civilian casualties (aid routes and evacuation notices and routes have, in fact, been set up) and allow aid convoys and the like into the region (this despite Hamas regularly stealing that aid to profit or benefit themselves instead of Gaza's people...Or firing rockets into aid routes for whatever benefit they think that gives them).

Do you also deny the genocide of the Uyghur's and Ukrainians? I'm not going to jump down your throat if you do I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. Genocides can take many forms. Also I never said Israel was going out of its way to deliberately genocide the Palestinians, I'm just going off what Israeli officials have called for and the direction the conflict is heading. It seems as though pressure on Israel by the Biden administration may be paying off but it's still too early for me to make a determination.

 

[Marduk]

Jews still exist today, was the Holocaust not genocidal? I'm sorry but I cannot take this line of thinking remotely seriously.

Much less of them existed in 1945 than before Hitler in certain countries he had control over.
Palestinians though... Their numbers are going completely wrong direction for a genocide.
Up...

Nope. There are a lot more people like me - Centrist, believer in the rule of law - who simply dislike nation-states and governments that break international law and mass-murder civilians.

Ah, so its ok when terror orgs of weird legal status do it?
Fucking anarchists.

The point is that Biden and the other Zionists have dug their own grave, by going so hard with their own axe to grind against the left in general (while conveniently never talking about the Communist bioterrorism that killed over 7 million people across the world while fearmongering about a bunch of "idiot western teenagers" as you put it accurately, ironically.

No, but public opinion in the US and elsewhere has deteriorated due to the conduct of the IDF in Gaza, and no it's not all pro-Hamas and Islamist and leftists, those are fringe ideals.

Yeah, sure, whatever, i hate the leftists running the media who manipulate the public opinion as much as the next guy. They should be treated the same way Russian and Chinese media are.

US asks Qatar to ‘turn down the volume’ of Al Jazeera news coverage

Secretary of state Antony Blinken made request of Qatari prime minister Sheikh Mohammed during frantic trip to Doha

www.theguardian.com

I actually agree, there should be just as much focus on the horrors of Neo-Communism and Islamism, as mentioned earlier the COVID-19 was likely a bioweapon through gain of function research as Rand Paul grilled Fauci about, and the U.S. was also involved in this catastrophe.

US banned this research for being too dangerous for the benefits, which is why cheeky bastards had it moved to China where US bans don't reach, and CCP agreed because they wanted to swipe data for own programs, safety be damned.

 

[IndyFront]

Ah, so its ok when terror orgs of weird legal status do it?
Fucking anarchists.

Lol I am an anarchist but I don't support terrorist organizations weirdo. Israel should learn from the US when it comes to taking out the leadership of terrorist organizations, as SEAL Team Six did with Bin Laden with VERY minimal civilian casualties.

 

[Marduk]

Lol I am an anarchist but I don't support terrorist organizations weirdo. Israel should learn from the US when it comes to taking out the leadership of terrorist organizations, as SEAL Team Six did with Bin Laden with VERY minimal civilian casualties.

And did Al Qaeda disappear with him?
Did its recruitment base disappear?
Nah, if anything being upstaged by ISIL did at least as much damage for moving it down the terror league, where it still exists though.
Terrorists organizations also learn, hence we hear less and less of big honcho head leaders of terror organizations. Even if slowly, as successful decentralized guerillas were a thing even in WW2 if not before, and there are challenges and inconveniences that come with it, but terrorism is an activity with high level of (un)natural selection.

 

[King Arts]

Jews still exist today, was the Holocaust not genocidal? I'm sorry but I cannot take this line of thinking remotely seriously.

I’m not pro Israel but dude the argument that Israel is genociding Palestinians is laughable. If Nazi Germany wasn’t defeated all the Jews in its area of control would be gone. Those in America or China would be safe so Jews wouldn’t go extinct but it would be a genuine genocide and it wouldn’t take the Nazis decades.

Whereas in Israel they have the power and have been there for a long time. The best argument you could make is that Israel wants to genocide the Palestinians but cannot because it would face many consequences. But that’s different than they ARE. You would be arguing that you know what someone else is thinking and it’s hard to do that.

Do you also deny the genocide of the Uyghur's and Ukrainians? I'm not going to jump down your throat if you do I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. Genocides can take many forms. Also I never said Israel was going out of its way to deliberately genocide the Palestinians, I'm just going off what Israeli officials have called for and the direction the conflict is heading. It seems as though pressure on Israel by the Biden administration may be paying off but it's still too early for me to make a determination.

Yes China is not genociding the Uyghurs and Russia is not genociding the Ukrainians I am consistent in this. Sure what they are doing is wrong but it’s not genocide.

 

[IndyFront]

Whereas in Israel they have the power and have been there for a long time. The best argument you could make is that Israel wants to genocide the Palestinians but cannot because it would face many consequences. But that’s different than they ARE. You would be arguing that you know what someone else is thinking and it’s hard to do that.

Yeah I'm not even arguing that my guy, I'm saying that due to in part corruption and extremism in the IDF and Israeli leadership (IDF has been sanctioned for war crimes and shipments have been delayed not because they hate Jews, but because they broke the law, and Israeli leadership has voiced genocidal fundamentalist rhetoric) war crimes that target the Palestinians as a demographic have been documented by international watchdogs and human rights organizations, it's part of why they kill so many journalists because they don't want their conduct to go mainstream (it already has, further emboldening my chaotic neutral/stupid argument over any particularly "evil" alignment of the Israeli elites)

Yes China is not genociding the Uyghurs and Russia is not genociding the Ukrainians I am consistent in this. Sure what they are doing is wrong but it’s not genocide.

Fair enough. Would you at least consider them somewhat genocidal if not on the level of , say, the Holocaust or Armenian genocide?

 

[Zachowon]

And did Al Qaeda disappear with him?
Did its recruitment base disappear?
Nah, if anything being upstaged by ISIL did at least as much damage for moving it down the terror league, where it still exists though.
Terrorists organizations also learn, hence we hear less and less of big honcho head leaders of terror organizations. Even if slowly, as successful decentralized guerillas were a thing even in WW2 if not before, and there are challenges and inconveniences that come with it, but terrorism is an activity with high level of (un)natural selection.

It helps tech has evolved to help find these guys as well

 

[IndyFront]

It helps tech has evolved to help find these guys as well

The Islamist theocrats have had their time in the sun, they're about to be collectively suppressed and crushed by the international community, because despite how much we all hate each other, we hate fundamentalist Islamist cavemen far more than we hate each other. Seriously: fuck Islamic fundamentalism. Anyone who lets religion or theosophy infest their politics needs a reprimand at The Hague. I am not at all afraid of exposing my authoritarianism regarding this one particular issue. Religion should have NO role in politics and anything not recognizing the separation of church and state needs to be banned. That Sharia Law bullshit should NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES be tolerated by Western nations. PERIOD!

 

[Cherico]

The very existence of Hamas -- indeed, of muslims in the Levant (or anywhere outside the Arabian peninsula) at all -- has its roots in the landgrab and ethnic cleansing that began immediately in the wake of Muhammed's time and led to islamic oppression and terror in counless regions where muslims don't belong at all.

Including the region that is now Israel, which had been the homeland of the Jews for at least 1500 years before islam ever came to exist.

As such, we must not reverse culpability here. It is the muslims who have taken the land of others, and who must thus reap the whirlwind of their own making.

The problem with Israel is that they just wont rip off the bandaid.

The leadership has never been truly honest with itself or its people and just admited that peaceful coexistence with the Palastinians just is not possible. They should have just done mass expulsions when they gained new territory if they had done that then there would be peace now.

If they just fucking sucked it up and did a mass expulsion of Palastinains to syria they would be in the dog house for a decade and then it would be fucking over.

As is they keep doing this middle ground dance which will either end with the destruction of their nation or a strong man coming to power putting Israels democracy out of its misery and finally handling this.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

The problem with Israel is that they just wont rip off the bandaid.

Because at the end of the day, they're not the monsters the Left and Islamists keep telling us they are.

 

[Cherico]

Because at the end of the day, they're not the monsters the Left and Islamists keep telling us they are.

some times you have to be a monster to survive.

 

[mrttao]

The Islamist theocrats have had their time in the sun, they're about to be collectively suppressed and crushed by the international community, because despite how much we all hate each other, we hate fundamentalist Islamist cavemen far more than we hate each other. Seriously: fuck Islamic fundamentalism. Anyone who lets religion or theosophy infest their politics needs a reprimand at The Hague. I am not at all afraid of exposing my authoritarianism regarding this one particular issue. Religion should have NO role in politics and anything not recognizing the separation of church and state needs to be banned. That Sharia Law bullshit should NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES be tolerated by Western nations. PERIOD!

Total seperation of church and state?
We tried that, ended up with godless religions like communism and transgenderism taking over the state.

Also, not all religions are as barbarous as Islam.
Some are less barbaric like buddhism, shinto, and christianity.
Some are more barbaric like aztec, and trans cult.

 

[Terthna]

Total seperation of church and state?
We tried that, ended up with godless religions like communism and transgenderism taking over the state.

Also, not all religions are as barbarous as Islam.
Some are less barbaric like buddhism, shinto, and christianity.
Some are more barbaric like aztec, and trans cult.

It's a bit more complicated than that; "the church" isn't some magic panacea that can stop bad people who choose to do bad things. Just look at the Pope; the man has flouted pretty much everything Christians are supposed to believe for years, but do you see the Catholic Church doing anything about it? Do you think we'd be better off if he had more influence over the American government?