Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel

[Jormungandr]

Yes,jews would steal more palestinian lands.I hope,that nobody would speak about jewish property lost in Europe - because everybody would laught at that now.

There are no "Palestinian" lands. They, as a people, didn't even exist until about seventy years ago.

Their "ancient claims"? It's all bullshit: A lie to take a legacy that was never theirs to begin with.

If anyone's trying to "steal land" (via ancient claims), it's the Palestinians.

Fuck 'em.

 

[willdelve4beer]

Yes,jews would steal more palestinian lands.I hope,that nobody would speak about jewish property lost in Europe - becouse everybody would laught at that now.

Eh, If you start a war, then lose the war, you should expect to lose territory the victor as well - that has been the norm since, well, forever. It is deliberately starting a war just to take territory from your weaker neighbor that is (at least theoretically) frowned upon.

 

[S'task]

The sudden outbreak of heavy-handed partisanship, with conservatives lining up alongside Israel and leftists siding with Palestine, is not organic. It's a propaganda construct. A convenient distraction from the wrongdoings of the criminals in power. This whole thing is a charade, and innocent people are dying for it.

. . .

Have you not paid attention to the partisan support of Israel going back to the 1980s? Even back then Republicans and Conservatives were much more pro-let Israel off the leash and it was the Democrats, including Clinton and going back to Carter had been pushing for a two-state "solution" and pushing Israel to accept that as a solution and making "peace" with the Palestinians.

Further, there's been a MASSIVE push and growth of the BDS movement against Israel on US college campuses dating back to AT LEAST the 2010s, if not earlier, that has consistently painted Israel as the Oppressor of the Palestinians. Combine that with the rise of Intersectionality as the core ideology of the Left, with it's emphasis on Power Dynamics and the Oppressor = Evil and Oppressed = Good morality that has pretty much fully taken over the Academic and Grassroots Leftists while that ENTIRE moral system is rejected by Conservatives who still cleave either to Judeo-Christian Morality or some form of Libertarian Non-Aggression based Morality and this division between support is quite WHOLLY organic and has been building up for DECADES.

Frankly, that you think this division is a conspiracy foisted on us by the Elites rather than the organic outgrowth of the ideology that has taken over the Left indicates you need to broaden your outlook on things and actually study history and philosophy, over focusing on connections between groups.

 

[Bigking321]

Also, the people in those agencies don't view themselves as in a global conspiracy. They think that the things they do are for the good of the country (they clearly fucking aren't, but that's how they view themselves). You still cannot explain this.

I very very much doubt that the intelligence agencies think what they are doing is for the good of the country instead of for the good of themselves and their globalist masters.

I don't particularly feel like debating it though.

Either you think the agencies are a shadow government manipulating things for their own ends or you don't. Shrug. Two different world views.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

There are no "Palestinian" lands. They, as a people, didn't even exist until about seventy years ago.

Their "ancient claims"? It's all bullshit: A lie to take a legacy that was never theirs to begin with.

If anyone's trying to "steal land" (via ancient claims), it's the Palestinians.

Fuck 'em.

I honestly don't know where the "Palestinians" even came from since historically that land post Roman Empire it was part of various Arabian Empires a Crusader kingdom for a short while then part of Arab Empires again before becoming part of the Ottoman Empire and then it was a British Colony for a short period post WW1.

 

[ATP]

There are no "Palestinian" lands. They, as a people, didn't even exist until about seventy years ago.

Their "ancient claims"? It's all bullshit: A lie to take a legacy that was never theirs to begin with.

If anyone's trying to "steal land" (via ancient claims), it's the Palestinians.

Fuck 'em.

Many nations in Africa do not existed 70 years ago.Do not change fact,that Izrael would steal somebody else property.
And property rights are for everybody,or nobody.

Eh, If you start a war, then lose the war, you should expect to lose territory the victor as well - that has been the norm since, well, forever. It is deliberately starting a war just to take territory from your weaker neighbor that is (at least theoretically) frowned upon.

There is one morality - the same for states and people.At least in western civilization.

 

[Jormungandr]

Many nations in Africa do not existed 70 years ago.Do not change fact,that Izrael would steal somebody else property.
And property rights are for everybody,or nobody.


There is one morality - the same for states and people.At least in western civilization.

Their claim is that they're an ancient people trying to reclaim "their" lands from occupiers (Israel/Jewish people), when the opposite is true. The Palestinian people never existed in antiquity. That lie is the very core of their identity.

Fuck 'em, the bloody death cult thieves.

 

[Iconoclast]

. . .

Have you not paid attention to the partisan support of Israel going back to the 1980s? Even back then Republicans and Conservatives were much more pro-let Israel off the leash and it was the Democrats, including Clinton and going back to Carter had been pushing for a two-state "solution" and pushing Israel to accept that as a solution and making "peace" with the Palestinians.

Further, there's been a MASSIVE push and growth of the BDS movement against Israel on US college campuses dating back to AT LEAST the 2010s, if not earlier, that has consistently painted Israel as the Oppressor of the Palestinians. Combine that with the rise of Intersectionality as the core ideology of the Left, with it's emphasis on Power Dynamics and the Oppressor = Evil and Oppressed = Good morality that has pretty much fully taken over the Academic and Grassroots Leftists while that ENTIRE moral system is rejected by Conservatives who still cleave either to Judeo-Christian Morality or some form of Libertarian Non-Aggression based Morality and this division between support is quite WHOLLY organic and has been building up for DECADES.

Frankly, that you think this division is a conspiracy foisted on us by the Elites rather than the organic outgrowth of the ideology that has taken over the Left indicates you need to broaden your outlook on things and actually study history and philosophy, over focusing on connections between groups.

Oh, no, I am definitely aware of the pro-Israel and pro-Palestine movements and their history. I'm also aware that throughout the 2010s, they've been hollowed out and turned into shells of their former selves, receiving next to no media coverage and, in the case of BDS, actually being suppressed by the adoption of anti-boycott laws. Nowadays, it's difficult for me to imagine anyone actually caring about Palestine or Israel as part of a mass movement who isn't simply following the marching orders of agents-provocateurs paid by oligarchs to astroturf and rabble-rouse and stir those divisive sentiments up.

I don't trust any mass movements, nowadays. When oligarchs need a distraction, they use them like flashbangs. They rip off the blindfold and gag, shove them into the spotlight, and give them media coverage and a platform. They only do this sort of thing when they're trying to smother a scandal.

Ultimately, if the media chooses to ignore something, that means it practically doesn't exist. We could have more pro-Palestine protests on college campuses than anywhere else in the world, and in the end, it doesn't make a lick of difference if the big networks don't choose to cover it.

 

[ATP]

Their claim is that they're an ancient people trying to reclaim "their" lands from occupiers (Israel/Jewish people), when the opposite is true. The Palestinian people never existed in antiquity. That lie is the very core of their identity.

Fuck 'em, the bloody death cult thieves.

Yes,they do not existed as nation,but - they are descendents of bronze age people who become jews,pagans,christians and now are muslims.
I do not like muslims,but even they had the same rights of property like everybody else.
Kill all Hamas members,but stealing from others is still crime.Exactly the same as if you steal from jews or goim.

 

[willdelve4beer]

There is one morality - the same for states and people.At least in western civilization.

Wait, you're serious?

Where is the laugh harder meme?


When people take money from someone through threat of force it is armed robbery.
When a state does it, it is taxation.

When people force someone from their home and exile them it is a lynch mob
When a government does it expulsion

When people kill someone who refuses to do as they are told it is murder
When a government kills someone who refuses to follow the law it is execution,

When I round up a band of friends and start a fight it is a riot.
When states do it , it is a war.

When my friends agree to back each other up in a fight, it is a gang
When states do it, it is an alliance.


States and individuals in no way, shape, or form follow, nor are expected to follow, the same moral or ethic strictures. If someone told you otherwise, they were lying.

 

[Abhorsen]

Either you think the agencies are a shadow government manipulating things for their own ends or you don't. Shrug. Two different world views.

No. This is the issue, right here. I do believe that they are manipulating things for their own benefit. The issue that you don't understand is how they do it. People don't do things because they revel in human misery. No, instead, they all believe (wrongly) that what they do is in the best interests of the country or its people. Similarly, lockdowners really believed that locking people inside was for their own good.

This is not a happy realization. This is horrific news, and far more concerning. They want what they think is best for you, whether you like it or not. This is far worse than a simply corrupt government that just wants to make an illgotten buck, as they'll hound you until the ends of the earth until you are 'safe' and 'healthy'.

Until you understand that Fauci believed, and still believes, that everything he did was for the health of the world, despite him being responsible for more deaths than any US politician or bureaucrat, you do not understand the evil you are up against.

And because of this, you don't have anyway to tell if something done was just bad or their fault, and then they'll use this ignorance against you as you waste your time investigating what they didn't do, discrediting you when you are right.

Pride is the greatest sin for a reason, for through it good intentions become the greatest evil.

So through this framework, we can look at Mossad. They would absolutely support Hamas maintaining control of the strip, because it keeps their chief enemy, Palestine, divided and looking bad. An actual, consistent, nonviolent protest would wreck Israel. Hamas stops that. What Mossad won't let Hamas do is actually succeed at its goals or get any victories. Because then Israel looks weak, and that also hurts Israel.

 

[Bigking321]

People don't do things because they revel in human misery. No, instead, they all believe (wrongly) that what they do is in the best interests of the country or its people. Similarly, lockdowners really believed that locking people inside was for their own good.

Do you honestly believe that all the evil they commit is because they think it's for good reasons?

What rubbish. Evil exists. Evil people exist. Evil people willing to do anything for power exist. And they are perfectly happy to create situations where they can take advantage and expand their power or damage their enemies.

We have absolute psychopaths in positions of power all over the place. And I absolutely guarantee they don't do their evil because they genuinely believe it's for the publics greater good. Just their greater good.

Now their useful idiots that believe whatever lies might think they are committing evil for good.

But definitely not those at the top that know the truth. They are simply trying to corrupt and subvert.

 

[Abhorsen]

Do you honestly believe that all the evil they commit is because they think it's for good reasons?

Yes. And that's the most disturbing thing. Hitler thought he was doing good. So do Hamas.

People who just want power, or even better, money, are no where near as destructive as those who think they are on a crusade for good. It's how Fauci did far worse damage than Pelosi. Pelosi only wanted power. Fauci wanted a greater good.

It's why Communism and Fascism are so much worse than a corrupt dictator: because there are true believers. The corrupt nazi could be bribed to let a Jew through, but not a non-corrupt one.

But even if we go with power being the motivation, it still doesn't work for Mossad. This made Mossad look bad, and worse, threatened their power. That still doesn't explain what happened. Even with your flawed understanding of evil, you can't plausibly chalk this up to evil, its far more likely incompetence.

 

[Cherico]

They really aren't though? Like at all. Israel is largely hated by the international community. Globalists, including the Jewish ones, want to get rid of Israel (just look at how Soros is viewed in Israel).

Also, the people in those agencies don't view themselves as in a global conspiracy. They think that the things they do are for the good of the country (they clearly fucking aren't, but that's how they view themselves). You still cannot explain this.

Also, I couldn't stop laughing at this. FAFO:

she deserved it.

 

[ATP]

Wait, you're serious?

Where is the laugh harder meme?


When people take money from someone through threat of force it is armed robbery.
When a state does it, it is taxation.

When people force someone from their home and exile them it is a lynch mob
When a government does it expulsion

When people kill someone who refuses to do as they are told it is murder
When a government kills someone who refuses to follow the law it is execution,

When I round up a band of friends and start a fight it is a riot.
When states do it , it is a war.

When my friends agree to back each other up in a fight, it is a gang
When states do it, it is an alliance.


States and individuals in no way, shape, or form follow, nor are expected to follow, the same moral or ethic strictures. If someone told you otherwise, they were lying.

That Byzantine cyvilization,not western.That is why germans could murder with good conscience during WW2.

 

[mrttao]

No. This is the issue, right here. I do believe that they are manipulating things for their own benefit. The issue that you don't understand is how they do it. People don't do things because they revel in human misery. No, instead, they all believe (wrongly) that what they do is in the best interests of the country or its people.

No, they believe it is for the good of themselves.

Patriots who do things "for the good of the country" are vanishingly rare amongst high office holders.
there do exist some small small tiny minority of the ruling class who genuinely believe their actions are "for the greater good" rather than for personal gain. But they are a tiny minority of the ruling class.

You are confusing useful idiots, which are commoners who ascribe to an ideology designed for the mentally handicapped, and the actual people in power.

Even then, some useful idiots are just using an ideology as an excuse to run roughshod over other people rather than genuinely believing in the idealogy.

 

[Abhorsen]

No, they believe it is for the good of themselves.

No, they don't. That's the terrifying thing, and why bureaucrats are more terrifying than politicians.

Patriots who do things "for the good of the country" are vanishingly rare amongst high office holders.

Politicians do things for power/money. Bureaucrats on Fauci's level? They use 'good of the country', or 'humanity', or some other thing. Maybe this is just a mask for their own self importance, but I doubt it. It's the height of arrogance, but then that arrogance isn't absent from the highest office.

Also, the idea that the higherups don't believe in what they sell the lower downs is wrong. Oh, they'll cheat on the ideals, but they believe in them. That's why the Soviets stuck to a known failing ideology for decades as it failed to deliver. Because they believed in it. So much so that Yeltsin cried when he saw an regular grocery store in Texas, as his illusions vanished.

And regardless, I've still not seen a good explanation for why an israeli wouldn't guard against the Hamas incursion: it hurt Mossad Power, it hurt the government's power, etc. There's simply o good explanation of it.

 

[S'task]

Look everyone, CS Lewis put it better than all y'all:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals." - CS Lewis, "God in the Dock: Essays on Theology and Ethics".

 

[willdelve4beer]

That Byzantine cyvilization,not western.That is why germans could murder with good conscience during WW2.

No,

That is the law, both domestic and international, today, for NATO, the US, and the EU (to the extent that the three are not overlapping). That differentiation between what individuals can do and what states can do is the basis of (among many other things) the Westphalian (sic?) conception of the state, diplomacy, and entire concept of international law.

You might not like that the laws are this way as it stands today, you may feel the applicable portions of the laws should be changed. You might even be right. But that does not change what the law is currently.

 

[Largo]

Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler both sat at the absolute top of their pyramids, held absolute power that has yet to be equalled, and ruled empires of death and misery. And yet, the reality is that they both really believed in their respective ideologies. Hitler's actions in particular make no goddamn sense if he didn't believe in a Global Jewish Conspiracy.

The idea that leaders are somehow better, that they somehow can avoid falling into the trap of ideology unlike stupid sheeple? It's an error committed again and again.