Leftist Child Grooming

[S'task]

The underlying issues regarding the LGBT aren't actually from them, not really. The underlying issues for society go well beyond that group and go back to the Sexual Revolution.

Pretty much all of society's worst woes can trace back to that, and here's the thing that most people don't understand: the reason the Sexual Revolution has caused so many fundamental problems for our society is that it was founded and created on a LIE.

While people point to the mass use of birth control and the like, access and acceptability of birth control really wouldn't, by itself, have done the damage the Sexual Revolution has wrought. Birth control wasn't really what fomented Sexual Revolution, what drove it was the Kinsey Reports. You see, people prior to the Kinsey Reports generally believed as people here are noting: that sex was only a tertiary aspect of life, something married should primarily only do, and that most people only had one sexual partner through their entire lives. That was the societal expectation and experience for the vast majority of people in the West.

The Kinsey Reports claimed this was not the case, it pushed the idea that most people actually had cheated, premarital sex was common, and that male homosexuality was almost normative. Kinsey at the time claimed this was from extensive studies and interviews that he had done under strict confidentiality. These reports BLEW UP and were read by millions as well as injected directly into academia as The Truth, and that the prior understanding of sex, sexuality, and society was actually a fiction and a system that repressed people.

Here's the rub, Kinsey's report WAS actually based on extensive studies and interviews, but not of common Americans, but of CRIMINALS IN PRISON, especially CRIMINALS IN PRISON for sexual crimes. So basically Kinsey took studies and interviews of perverts and then claimed that EVERYONE was actually a pervert. This fact was covered up until the 1990s (the Kinsey reports came out in the early 1950s), but by that point the Sexual Revolution had already taken place.

So of course everything has had a bad effects. Kinsey pretty much explicitly was seeking to turn perversion into normalcy and succeeded.

 

[DarthOne]

The underlying issues regarding the LGBT aren't actually from them, not really. The underlying issues for society go well beyond that group and go back to the Sexual Revolution.

Pretty much all of society's worst woes can trace back to that, and here's the thing that most people don't understand: the reason the Sexual Revolution has caused so many fundamental problems for our society is that it was founded and created on a LIE.

While people point to the mass use of birth control and the like, access and acceptability of birth control really wouldn't, by itself, have done the damage the Sexual Revolution has wrought. Birth control wasn't really what fomented Sexual Revolution, what drove it was the Kinsey Reports. You see, people prior to the Kinsey Reports generally believed as people here are noting: that sex was only a tertiary aspect of life, something married should primarily only do, and that most people only had one sexual partner through their entire lives. That was the societal expectation and experience for the vast majority of people in the West.

The Kinsey Reports claimed this was not the case, it pushed the idea that most people actually had cheated, premarital sex was common, and that male homosexuality was almost normative. Kinsey at the time claimed this was from extensive studies and interviews that he had done under strict confidentiality. These reports BLEW UP and were read by millions as well as injected directly into academia as The Truth, and that the prior understanding of sex, sexuality, and society was actually a fiction and a system that repressed people.

Here's the rub, Kinsey's report WAS actually based on extensive studies and interviews, but not of common Americans, but of CRIMINALS IN PRISON, especially CRIMINALS IN PRISON for sexual crimes. So basically Kinsey took studies and interviews of perverts and then claimed that EVERYONE was actually a pervert. This fact was covered up until the 1990s (the Kinsey reports came out in the early 1950s), but by that point the Sexual Revolution had already taken place.

So of course everything has had a bad effects. Kinsey pretty much explicitly was seeking to turn perversion into normalcy and succeeded.

Close. It began in Weimar.

 

[S'task]

Close. It began in Weimar.

No, pretty much all the research on sexuality that was in Weimar was lost, burned by the Nazis and others. Kinsey didn't base his stuff on them, he did his own research and publication.

Further, Kinsey's efforts to overturn western Sexual norms PREDATES Weimar. Dude was born in 1894 and had a bone to pick with Western Sexual morality his ENTIRE LIFE.

 

[DarthOne]

No, pretty much all the research on sexuality that was in Weimar was lost, burned by the Nazis and others. Kinsey didn't base his stuff on them, he did his own research and publication.

Further, Kinsey's efforts to overturn western Sexual norms PREDATES Weimar. Dude was born in 1894 and had a bone to pick with Western Sexual morality his ENTIRE LIFE.

Well, well. The more you know.

 

[S'task]

Well, well. The more you know.

Yeah, his start into the field was in the 1930s, roughly the same time as the worst of Weimar, and AFAIK, he had no contact with them.

While a lot of our issues with Western Civilization can be placed on the Continental Europeans, sadly, the foundation of the Sexual Revolution was home grown in the US. -.-

 

[Morphic Tide]

...you understand that's the problem, right? The entire reason it's disordered and not "normal" is that the focus of their purpose is the sexuality to the exclusion of other things.

You failed to parse the qualifying statement. The point being made is that it looks like it's getting worse because as the normalization of homosexuality progresses it takes increasingly extreme fringe beliefs to bother signaling it as being "just" gay becomes less controversial. That is, Pride Parades have to become increasingly degenerate to justify themselves because the general homosexual population are becoming less degenerate.

It's why under pressure, they get more degenerate and not more "normal". It's why they turn a blind eye to the predators in their midst.

When the pressure is for the basic category there is little to no ability to alter by the time it becomes apparent. Everyone becomes a nutjob when something they can't help is due cause for incredible abuse from wider society. And once the pressure against homosexuality started to be let up, the assorted other sexual improprieties immediately started to decline among them. Less partners, less kink, less political extremism, the "normal" gay people came out of the woodwork because doing so stopped carrying chemical castration sentences.

"Normal" people accept limitations on their sexuality all the damn time.

Including the ever-increasing proportion of homosexuals that insist on being otherwise normal people, on account of the activists purity-spiraling to keep digging for a reason to be funded.

 

[Aldarion]

The world in the early 00's to roughly 2010 had its problems, but sanity, frankly, prevailed, and things were relatively stable or had issues so pushed down/controlled that society actually worked properly. In the last fifteen years, we've taken a swan-dive into the abyss because of "tolerance" and such, and everything is basically falling apart.

Twenty years ago, a lot of the things openly celebrated now would've had someone rightfully refered to a mental health specialist at best, or their being sectioned for evaluation at the worst.

If we could go back twenty years or so and it'd hold, I'd be all for it because at least Western civilization/society would be stable/working then.

To hold conversative values doesn't mean going back forty years or so, or viewing things from a puritan religious standpoint.

To go back twenty years and hold things stable is impossible, because foundational ideas necessary to keep the things stable had been destroyed by the two World Wars and specifically the idea that Nazis / Fascists are somehow right wing / reactionary. What you are talking about here is reverting the symptoms without even attempting to understand, much less address, the root cause of the disease. We may be in the terminal stage of cancer right now, but it had been brewing for a long time, and going back twenty years will do absolutely nothing to solve the issue.

And the decline really began with humanism and Renaissance. Going back twenty or forty or eighty years ago is bloody useless, because all these people as well were bloody insane, just not so obvious about it. Go back 500 years, and we may just stand a chance.

 

[S'task]

I realized that while I outlined why the Sexual Revolution was founded on a lie, and showed how the data was false, I didn't explain what the lie was.

Fundamentally the lie of the Sexual Revolution was that traditional western sexual norms were abnormal and repressive, and that they inhibit human flourishing and happiness. Thus by reorienting sexual norms to be in line with what research showed was ACTUALLY normal human sexual practice, human happiness and flourishing would increase.

Basically, Kinsey pushed the idea that humans were meant for "free love", polygamous, and non-exclusive sexual relationships, and that the western norm of being monogamous was a false construct that oppressed humans and inhibited people's happiness. He then sought out evidence that fit his presuppositions, finding the sexual behaviors he thought people should have among the criminal perverts of society, and then used data from them to "prove" that that's what people were really like and were just lying about it.

One thing I would note is that monogamous heterosexual marriage has been the norm for humans in pretty much every culture and society of any longevity and success, from China to Europe. Yes, elites often had their own things going on (and were often considered hedonistic and excessive by most of their society, or granted an exception due to their elite status), but for the vast VAST bulk of society exclusive monogamy was the norm for thousands of years.

And so, merely 70 years later we can see the results of Kinsey's claim. Society is less happy and less healthy. His promised results did not come, rather, as most things based on lies do, it has instead destroyed.

 

[posh-goofiness]

You failed to parse the qualifying statement. The point being made is that it looks like it's getting worse because as the normalization of homosexuality progresses it takes increasingly extreme fringe beliefs to bother signaling it as being "just" gay becomes less controversial. That is, Pride Parades have to become increasingly degenerate to justify themselves because the general homosexual population are becoming less degenerate.


When the pressure is for the basic category there is little to no ability to alter by the time it becomes apparent. Everyone becomes a nutjob when something they can't help is due cause for incredible abuse from wider society. And once the pressure against homosexuality started to be let up, the assorted other sexual improprieties immediately started to decline among them. Less partners, less kink, less political extremism, the "normal" gay people came out of the woodwork because doing so stopped carrying chemical castration sentences.


Including the ever-increasing proportion of homosexuals that insist on being otherwise normal people, on account of the activists purity-spiraling to keep digging for a reason to be funded.

To your first point. That's the claim, yes. I and others claim its a lie. At best, of omission and at worst, just flat out lying to your face. Pride Parades have always been degenerate. The gathering places of the alphabet people have always included and actively promoted degenerate behaviors. Their literature, their sub-culture, all the little things that reinforce sexuality as identity all of it is geared to one outcome. Again, it's only now when the people can take a look at the alphabet person subculture and understanding the cesspit it is that they backtrack.

It's so incredibly interesting that the claim that you're just born that way comes up when needing to excuse the behavior but when promoting it, it's a voluntary action by people. The alphabet people will actively go out of their way to spread their behaviors. That is to say, people aren't alphabet people at one point, encounter an alphabet person that pushes them toward it, and suddenly there's a new alphabet person. Wow, almost like it was always a choice all along!

As far, as castration goes, yeah. That doesn't fly. Cultural suppression is totally different from mutilation and torture. Of course, that shouldn't be allowed. No matter what, that sort of abuse cannot be allowed once again.

 

[Morphic Tide]

And the decline really began with humanism and Renaissance. Going back twenty or forty or eighty years ago is bloody useless, because all these people as well were bloody insane, just not so obvious about it. Go back 500 years, and we may just stand a chance.

Ideas you think are "at fault" from humanism and the Renaissance are inseparable from those necessary to maintain an industrial economy, which is non-negotiable for defending from naked force.

Pride Parades have always been degenerate.

And have become moreso. They didn't start with across-the-country public stripper performances, they started with waving signs declaring they're gay to break through the willful ignorance of the general culture.

The gathering places of the alphabet people have always included and actively promoted degenerate behaviors.

And the alphabet people have diffused away from those gathering places, with the goers becoming more extremely promiscuous as they swirl the behavioral sink ever less of them are sucked into.

Their literature, their sub-culture, all the little things that reinforce sexuality as identity all of it is geared to one outcome.

And we see an ever increasing skew towards "people who happen to be gay" as the broader block of identity politics is discredited. Quit hyperfocusing on "the alphabet people", they've long separated into an independent subculture from the merely homosexual. The tell is everything after the first three letters.

It's so incredibly interesting that the claim that you're just born that way

No, I claimed that there is little to no ability to alter sexuality by the time it's apparent, as well demonstrated by how nobody has developed a remotely functional conversion camp for desistance. Regardless of at what point one becomes homosexual, it's clear that they cannot be simply made straight.

The alphabet people will actively go out of their way to spread their behaviors. That is to say, people aren't alphabet people at one point, encounter an alphabet person that pushes them toward it, and suddenly there's a new alphabet person.

Insisting the social contagion of simple inculcation is the sole mechanism ignores the low-level psychosomatic responses demonstrating arousal-disgust inversion and more extreme trauma responses of direct sexual abuse. There is not only not one clear cause, there's a body of evidence to show that it's a convergent outcome of multiple independent factors.

As far, as castration goes, yeah. That doesn't fly. Cultural suppression is totally different from mutilation and torture. Of course, that shouldn't be allowed. No matter what, that sort of abuse cannot be allowed once again.

The problem is they're one and the same, the historically-typical to the West cultural suppression of homosexual men intrinsically entails them all being perverts to disown and hobble the arousal responses of. You can't seriously expect to backtrack to the attitude without arriving back at what that attitude motivated.

 

[Captain X]

No, it's only with the societal pressures being removed that "merely" homosexual people became a stable thing at all, as with it in effect the hypersexual degenerate community is the only available outlet as trying anything else gets you de-facto exiled at best. By the incredibly vast majority of metrics, LGB people have consistently become more normal as the barriers to such are removed, but the activists in "The Movement" need to keep finding issues to keep getting funding and so becomes ever less normal.


To paraphrase the above, it's that one must be increasingly extreme to find purpose in making a point of their homosexuality, not that homosexuals at large are becoming more degenerate. When they're not marginalized, they have little reason to join the coalition.

A lesbian couple I know got married and bought a house. Such degeneracy.

 

[posh-goofiness]

A lesbian couple I know got married and bought a house. Such degeneracy.

Congratulations to them. Of course, the real problem is going to be when they adopt a child that they groom into their lifestyle, but sure. We can be flippant if you like.

 

[Captain X]

If they ever have a kid, once of them will give birth to it.

Wow, some of you really just are bigots.

 

[King Arts]

If they ever have a kid, once of them will give birth to it.

Wow, some of you really just are bigots.

So then it won’t be their kid it will be the kid of one of them. Here is the thing a gay person can have a kid, a gay couple can’t.

 

[posh-goofiness]

And have become moreso. They didn't start with across-the-country public stripper performances, they started with waving signs declaring they're gay to break through the willful ignorance of the general culture.

Yes... they started with public indecency and escalated from there. Now we see public sex or BDSM displays. Back then when it started it was mere public indecency. So, yes, I suppose you're accurate when you say they've got worse.

And the alphabet people have diffused away from those gathering places, with the goers becoming more extremely promiscuous as they swirl the behavioral sink ever less of them are sucked into.

I'm sorry. Is club life somehow different between the alphabet people and straight people? Last I checked, this was a problem for both sub-cultures. Except, for the former, there's no counteracting principles and for the latter, there are.

Not to mention, that diffusion has also been a net negative.

And we see an ever increasing skew towards "people who happen to be gay" as the broader block of identity politics is discredited. Quit hyperfocusing on "the alphabet people", they've long separated into an independent subculture from the merely homosexual. The tell is everything after the first three letters.

My contention that those "normal" LGBs are still alphabet people. They still support the same groups, attend the same rallies, push the same policies, believe the same things, tolerate the same evils, and promote the same behaviors.

No, I claimed that there is little to no ability to alter sexuality by the time it's apparent, as well demonstrated by how nobody has developed a remotely functional conversion camp for desistance. Regardless of at what point one becomes homosexual, it's clear that they cannot be simply made straight.

Insisting the social contagion of simple inculcation is the sole mechanism ignores the low-level psychosomatic responses demonstrating arousal-disgust inversion and more extreme trauma responses of direct sexual abuse. There is not only not one clear cause, there's a body of evidence to show that it's a convergent outcome of multiple independent factors.

Fair, fair. Conversion therapy definitely doesn't help. Despite the many testimonials from people who've attended them. Okay. Let's collect a benchmark here.

Can early intervention sexual activity change or influence a child's development? Either to or away from homosexuality.
Can repeated exposure to particular sexual experience change an adult's sexual preferences?

The problem is they're one and the same, the historically-typical to the West cultural suppression of homosexual men intrinsically entails them all being perverts to disown and hobble the arousal responses of. You can't seriously expect to backtrack to the attitude without arriving back at what that attitude motivated.

...what word salad... what? Cultural suppression of homosexuality plays out in the same way as it does suppression of straight people's degenerate behavior- shaming, shunning, and as a last resort law enforcement. It's the same damn rule- keep that shit in the bedroom. Keep it out of sight of society. Do not draw attention to your sexual characteristics. Do no make other people complicit in your behaviors.

It's when that cultural suppression of aberrant sexual behaviors for homosexual or heterosexual people spills over to fanaticism that you get things like castration. It's not even unique to homosexuals- it's a disgusting practice when applied to anyone or any group... which it has been.

 

[posh-goofiness]

If they ever have a kid, once of them will give birth to it.

Wow, some of you really just are bigots.

Ah, right. I suppose they could go that route- IVF presumably. A few months ago I might have actually been okay with that.

As for bigotry... no. Just no. If we were, say, 50 years in the past before the fuckery happening now you might have had a point. We are far past the point of blind judgement here. We have 50 years of meticulously documented bullshit.

 

[Morphic Tide]

So then it won’t be their kid it will be the kid of one of them. Here is the thing a gay person can have a kid, a gay couple can’t.

We have the technology, lesbos can in fact have a child that is fully theirs. We can also synthesize zygotes from two men's genetics with a lot more hoops, but you still need a woman for the womb to grow it in.

Yes... they started with public indecency and escalated from there.

How is waving signs around public indecency? The start was genuinely just blunt declaration.

I'm sorry. Is club life somehow different between the alphabet people and straight people?

...You call out "degeneracy" and don't know about this? Does the term "bug chaser" ring any bells?

My contention that those "normal" LGBs are still alphabet people. They still support the same groups, attend the same rallies, push the same policies, believe the same things, tolerate the same evils, and promote the same behaviors.

Sarah Longwell.

Cultural suppression of homosexuality plays out in the same way as it does suppression of straight people's degenerate behavior

No, it doesn't, as can be easily seen with how it historically didn't. Tell me what heterosexual degeneracy had family members refuse to identify the bodies after a gathering place burned down.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

ok serious question here...at this point what can be said that has not already been said?

 

[posh-goofiness]

How is waving signs around public indecency? The start was genuinely just blunt declaration.

Public undecency as in walkung around half undressed? That was the start.

You call out "degeneracy" and don't know about this? Does the term "bug chaser" ring any bells?

What does that have to do with it? This one practice doesn't change all the other shared bad behaviors between straight and gay people in these sorts of places. It's the same sort of place that encourages these behaviors no matter your sexually proclivities. It's just that for the alphabet people where their sexuality is the focus of things it's got no counter.

Sarah Longwell.

Eh. Cool. Milo Yanopolis. Dave Rubin. They're the same sort of conservatives that conserve nothing. Because they inherently must push their ideology and can only go so far. Also, lol, she's a never trumper. That's hilarious. He's on her side.

No, it doesn't, as can be easily seen with how it historically didn't. Tell me what heterosexual degeneracy had family members refuse to identify the bodies after a gathering place burned down.

...they're dead. That's not an example of cultural suppression. But I'd say it's the same phenomenon as parents disowning their kids for their sexual degeneracy? I don't know, seems extreme in either case. Fanaticism, in other words, which I've already said I don't like. Tack it onto the sort of social behavior we absolutely cannot allow either.

 

[Aldarion]

Ideas you think are "at fault" from humanism and the Renaissance are inseparable from those necessary to maintain an industrial economy, which is non-negotiable for defending from naked force.

Even IF we assume this is true... which is doubtful at best... industrial economy began in Europe. So the problem you are positing here likely wouldn't even exist.