Mass Effect Mass Effect general thread

[Stargazer]

Mass Effect: Legendary Edition outperformed expectations | VentureBeat

It seemed like MELE was doing pretty good at launch but it's nice to get further confirmation. No solid numbers given, but EA is talking up how it outperformed expectations and that it, along with the two player co-op adventure "It Takes Two", contributed to the company's overperformance in "full game sales". This is only good news for the Mass Effect franchise and BioWare. After stumbling with Andromeda and faceplanting with Anthem, it's nice to have a reminder that there are still a lot of people who really enjoy the original trilogy and that the universe, characters, and stories have really stood the test of time. Hopefully it's a morale boost to the both the teams working on DA4 and ME5, an encouragement to stay the course with gameplay that focuses on single player storytelling, and something they can point to when EA pressures them towards live services. I know a lot of people have given up on BioWare, but this clearly shows there's still a lot of love for the ME trilogy, and I want to see the results of BioWare trying to make a game in that vein again.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Currently playing through Mass Effect 2, and I personally find the Council's denial of the Reapers to be a bit forced. I mean, I could certainly understand them playing it down whilst taking the threat deathly seriously in private, but "we have dismissed that claim" veers into for the sake of the plot. How anyone could confuse Sovereign with Geth technology (bollocks that "we didn't have much to work with." You literally had a fifty foot tentacle crash through the Presidium).

 

[Doomsought]

Its why there is a fan theory that the Citadel, especially the Presidium has a very weak indoctrination effect installed in it. One that makes people think that the Citadel is the best place to rule the galaxy from, and then makes them slightly stupid.

 

[Battlegrinder]

Its why there is a fan theory that the Citadel, especially the Presidium has a very weak indoctrination effect installed in it. One that makes people think that the Citadel is the best place to rule the galaxy from, and then makes them slightly stupid.

I've never found that theory compelling, given that that it functionally boils down to "without external factors, the government that decided to enforce it's laws via unaccountable, barely monitored agents not bound by any law would make wise decisions."

 

[Aaron Fox]

Currently playing through Mass Effect 2, and I personally find the Council's denial of the Reapers to be a bit forced. I mean, I could certainly understand them playing it down whilst taking the threat deathly seriously in private, but "we have dismissed that claim" veers into for the sake of the plot. How anyone could confuse Sovereign with Geth technology (bollocks that "we didn't have much to work with." You literally had a fifty foot tentacle crash through the Presidium).

There is a bit of headcanon for me that any Reaper tech has memetic properties to them, as a methodology to help 'stack the deck'. For those that cause indoctrination, it's basically something to cover the symptoms. For others, it's to help ensure that there is no real threat of resistance although this memetic hazard agent doesn't always work (example A), the Protheans).

In essence, unless the Reapers are dealing with memetic masters or species that the memes don't work with (like the aforementioned Protheans), it will always be too late to stop them.

In addition, Bioware is kind of bollocks when it comes to writing stories. Remember, Mass Effect is essentially a repeat of what put them on the map: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

 

[Doomsought]

I've never found that theory compelling, given that that it functionally boils down to "without external factors, the government that decided to enforce it's laws via unaccountable, barely monitored agents not bound by any law would make wise decisions."

You missing a chicken and the egg issue here. They would have created the specters how many years, decades or even centuries after setting up shop in the Citadel?

 

[Battlegrinder]

You missing a chicken and the egg issue here. They would have created the specters how many years, decades or even centuries after setting up shop in the Citadel?

Spectres are basically just a slightly reworked verison of Asari Justicars, so even if they postdated the actual formation of the council by a fair bit, the overall concept predates not merely the citadel, but spaceflight.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Spectres are basically just a slightly reworked verison of Asari Justicars, so even if they postdated the actual formation of the council by a fair bit, the overall concept predates not merely the citadel, but spaceflight.

I wouldn't say "slightly" as Spectres are wildly different in some aspects, indeed taking more of a leaf out of the Special Tasks Group's book at times. The Justicars are more warrior monks with a highly inflexible moral code, whilst Spectres are black ops/diplomats on steroids that operate above the law and clandestinely neutralise threats to the Council and Galactic Peace.

 

[Battlegrinder]

I wouldn't say "slightly" as Spectres are wildly different in some aspects, indeed taking more of a leaf out of the Special Tasks Group's book at times. The Justicars are more warrior monks with a highly inflexible moral code, whilst Spectres are black ops/diplomats on steroids that operate above the law and clandestinely neutralise threats to the Council and Galactic Peace.

They're not 1 for 1 identical, but the parallels are hard to overlook.

Per that per the codex, Justicars are "subtle where possible", so like spectres they can operate covertly.

Justicars, just like spectres, are empowered to step above the law in the name of upholding some higher cause. Samara sees no problem with violating the law in the name of her code, including executing prisoners, killing police officers (granted, she never actually did that, but it was very clear she would) and refusing to cooperate or recognize the superior authority of law enforcement. Because Justicars don't enforce the law, they enforce their code.

The law/society also gives Justicars considerable privileges. Every Asari you meet that's not a merc holds Justicars in high regard and gives them a lot of leeway, and Samara's word alone is taken as proof of guilt merely because she said it, either because the law treats testimony from Justicars as gospel or because the Asari cop taking her statement decides to do so.

Justicars are not accountable to anyone, at all. In addition to her "lock me up and I'll kill you all" bit in 2, when Samara intends to violate her vows in 3, she tries to kill herself on the spot, rather than turn herself in to some governing body of Justicars to be punished. She's seemingly only answerable to herself.

If the asari, who were at the time a space fairing civilization that very clearly has no need for an order of lawful stupid wannabe paladins running around killing people, were totally accepting of all this stuff anyway then it's not at all surprising that would have no issues with and support the formation of the spectres.

 

[Stargazer]

Currently playing through Mass Effect 2, and I personally find the Council's denial of the Reapers to be a bit forced. I mean, I could certainly understand them playing it down whilst taking the threat deathly seriously in private, but "we have dismissed that claim" veers into for the sake of the plot. How anyone could confuse Sovereign with Geth technology (bollocks that "we didn't have much to work with." You literally had a fifty foot tentacle crash through the Presidium).

It can seem a bit forced, but you may be underestimating the ability of government leaders to stick their heads in the sand. It's also in line with how the Council was characterized as skeptical about the existence of the Reapers at every turn in ME1.

Spectres are basically just a slightly reworked verison of Asari Justicars, so even if they postdated the actual formation of the council by a fair bit, the overall concept predates not merely the citadel, but spaceflight.

You can point out some similarities between how justicars and Spectres operate, like the lone wolf nature, relative autonomy, and operating outside of local law, but in universe the Spectres are explicitly stated to have been modeled after how the salarian STG units operate. Spectres are at the very least accountable to the Council and given assignments by them, while the Asari Republics don't seem to have direct authority over the justicars.

 

[Battlegrinder]

You can point out some similarities between how justicars and Spectres operate, like the lone wolf nature, relative autonomy, and operating outside of local law, but in universe the Spectres are explicitly stated to have been modeled after how the salarian STG units operate. Spectres are at the very least accountable to the Council and given assignments by them, while the Asari Republics don't seem to have direct authority over the justicars.

That is canonical according the the Codex, but that's not quite what I was driving at. The point was that regardless of where the idea of spectres came from, institutions with spectre-like elements (in particular, all the bad elements of the service) were floating around and tolerated before the citadel was discovered, which speaks again the "citadel made them stupid" theory.

 

[Laskar]

The problem with a lot of the indoctrination theories is that any sufficiently insidious form of mind control is indistinguishable from an ad hoc plot device. So excusing bad writing with "it was the Reapers all along!" just circles us back around to bad writing.

 

[Stargazer]

The unofficial patch for Mass Effect 2 Legendary Edition was finally released a few days ago! The Legendary Edition wasn't a total disaster, but it was still pretty buggy, and Bioware only bothered with one patch that didn't fix a whole lot. Unofficial patches by the modding community were released for ME1 and ME3 relatively quickly, but the ME2 patch took a while longer. But it's here! All the unofficial patches can be found at NexusMods and ModDB.

 

[ParadiseLost]

Just finished Mass Effect 1 as a Paragon Soldier Male Shepherd.

Damn am I impressed with this game. Is the rest of Mass Effect this good? Dragon Age?

This has easily jumped into my top 10 or 20 games pretty much instantly. If the rest of the trilogy is this good I could see MELE being in my top 5.

 

[Stargazer]

Just finished Mass Effect 1 as a Paragon Soldier Male Shepherd.

Damn am I impressed with this game. Is the rest of Mass Effect this good? Dragon Age?

This has easily jumped into my top 10 or 20 games pretty much instantly. If the rest of the trilogy is this good I could see MELE being in my top 5.

I would say the rest of the Mass Effect trilogy, Mass Effect 2 and 3, are definitely good and worth playing if you already enjoyed ME1. One pretty cool thing is that you can import your save files from each previous game, carrying over your decisions. If you're playing on PC I would highly recommend installing the unofficial community patches. Also, when starting ME2, when it asks you if you want to watch the "Genesis comic", SKIP IT. It's this five minute voiced over recap of ME1 that's out of place and completely unnecessary if you just played ME1, and throws off the pacing of the opening scenes of ME2.

The fourth game, Mass Effect Andromeda, is its own thing that a lot of fans, myself included, found disappointing. But once you're done with the trilogy I would still suggest giving Andromeda a shot, to make up your own mind. Some people do still enjoy it.

Dragon Age is similar, basically a sister series to Mass Effect in a fantasy setting rather than sci fi. It also focuses on gathering a party of interesting characters to get to know and bring with you on your adventures. There's a couple differences, though. The first Dragon Age, Origins, uses the old Baldur's Gate/Knights of the Old Republic conversation tree system with the player character not being voice acted. Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition on the other hand do have fully voiced player characters with a conversation wheel similar to Mass Effect. But player characters is another difference: you play a new player character in each Dragon Age, unlike how you play as Commander Shepard through the first three Mass Effect games. There are still a number of recurring characters across the series, and decisions from past games can be imported as well. If you enjoyed Mass Effect, and you like fantasy settings as much as you like sci fi, you'll very likely enjoy Dragon Age as well.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

So, I'm playing through Mass Effect Andromeda (don't judge, it was about £1.50 in a second hand shop and I felt like it would be entertaining) and one thing I find curious about the Initiative higher ups and security detail, is that no one seems to be aware there's a secret option C.

Everything's gone tits up, this isn't what they were promised, Jien Garson and Alec Ryder are dead, and the Helios cluster is a hellscape infested with hostile aliens. The Initiative is on the verge of dying in a hostile Galaxy, hence their desperation in turning to an untested pathfinder.

However, these planets, although hostile to life, still have plenty of natural resources you can strip mine to refuel the arks. Once that's done, plot a course back to the Milky Way, then get the Hell out of that death trap. It's a long way home but it beats dying alone in Andromeda. I'm surprised no one is arguing that.

 

[*THASF*]

So, I'm playing through Mass Effect Andromeda (don't judge, it was about £1.50 in a second hand shop and I felt like it would be entertaining) and one thing I find curious about the Initiative higher ups and security detail, is that no one seems to be aware there's a secret option C.

Everything's gone tits up, this isn't what they were promised, Jien Garson and Alec Ryder are dead, and the Helios cluster is a hellscape infested with hostile aliens. The Initiative is on the urge of dying in a hostile Galaxy, hence their desperation in turning to an untested pathfinder.

However, these planets, although hostile to life, still have plenty of natural resources you can strip mine to refuel the arks. Once that's done, plot a course back to the Milky Way, then get the Hell out of that death trap. It's a long way home but it beats dying alone in Andromeda. I'm surprised no one is arguing that.

No one argued about anything in Andromeda. The plot is railroaded as fuck and there's never any conflict among the protagonists at all.

 

[Stargazer]

No one argued about anything in Andromeda. The plot is railroaded as fuck and there's never any conflict among the protagonists at all.

Is there anything you would consider "conflict among the protagonists" in previous Mass Effect games, or other Bioware RPGs?

 

[Captain X]

Is there anything you would consider "conflict among the protagonists" in previous Mass Effect games, or other Bioware RPGs?

Uh, yeah. Some of them are even kind of plot important. In the first game you might end up having to kill one of your crewmates, and the second game has all kinds of it.

 

[bullethead]

No one argued about anything in Andromeda. The plot is railroaded as fuck and there's never any conflict among the protagonists at all.

That's because all the conflict in centered in the Initiative leadership.

The lack of conflict among the crew makes sense, since they were trying to go for a lighter tone, but then they made the situation so dire that it kinda went against that whole idea...

Sort of like Star Trek: Insurrection.