On Marijuana Being Harmless and Other Lies

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/...e-new-oxycontin-marijuana-psychosis-addiction

Prior to legalization, marijuana plants were bred to produce higher and higher concentrations of THC, a naturally occuring chemical compound in the plant that induces euphoria and alters users’ perceptions of reality. In the 1960s, the stuff the hippies were smoking was less than 2% THC. By the ’90s, it was closer to 5%. By 2015, it was over 20%. “It’s a freak plant that resembles nothing of what has existed in nature,”
In the era of legalized weed, the drug you think of as “cannabis” can hardly be called marijuana at all. The kinds of cannabis products that are sold online and at dispensaries contain no actual plant matter. They’re made by putting pulverized marijuana into a tube and running butane, propane, ethanol, or carbon dioxide through it, which separates the THC from the rest of the plant. The end product is a wax that can be 70% to 80% THC. That wax can then be put in a vacuum oven and further concentrated into oils that are as much as 95% or even 99% THC. Known as “dabs,” this is what people put in their vape pens, and in states like California and Colorado it’s totally legal and easily available to children. “There are no caps on potency,” said Stack.

Decades ago marijuana was considered harmless and still has such reputation, but the stuff that is smoked now has little relation to what was smoked 50 years ago, modern day hybrid marijuana is massively more potent, causes physical addiction and long term medical issues. But it is still advertised as miracle cure for pretty much anything, without any side effects and that is not just due to hippie zombies, marijuana is multi-billion dollar legal business in the USA and people benefiting from it constantly seek to expand the customer base. Unsurprisingly, the Sacklers have thrown their hat in ring as well.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Seems to me there are plenty of studies out there about medical benefits, including some rather old ones about being able to treat or even cure cancer. I still don't get the obsession conservatives have with weed, but then I'm for decriminalizing drugs in general and ending the "war on drugs," which has only served to make cartels wealthy and dangerous, militarize police, and kill an awful lot of people.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Seems to me there are plenty of studies out there about medical benefits, including some rather old ones about being able to treat or even cure cancer. I still don't get the obsession conservatives have with weed,
The article refers to a generally common principle in medicine - it's the dose that makes a poison.
Alcohol too has studies that show certain medical benefits.
But just because a beer a day or a glass of wine to dinner is rather harmless and may have medical benefits in some circumstances doesn't mean that downing a liter of vodka every day is harmless.
but then I'm for decriminalizing drugs in general and ending the "war on drugs," which has only served to make cartels wealthy and dangerous, militarize police, and kill an awful lot of people.
I can support such attitude towards drugs, but only if followed by some kind of reasonably effective answer to a necessary follow up question - what are you going to do with the growing number of junkies falling into addiction and then doing #junkiethings, with now much less legal opportunities to limit them. Because generally people supporting such drug policy aren't for cops and/or private citizens just shooting people for doing #junkiethings.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/...e-new-oxycontin-marijuana-psychosis-addiction




Decades ago marijuana was considered harmless and still has such reputation, but the stuff that is smoked now has little relation to what was smoked 50 years ago, modern day hybrid marijuana is massively more potent, causes physical addiction and long term medical issues. But it is still advertised as miracle cure for pretty much anything, without any side effects and that is not just due to hippie zombies, marijuana is multi-billion dollar legal business in the USA and people benefiting from it constantly seek to expand the customer base. Unsurprisingly, the Sacklers have thrown their hat in ring as well.
When you breed for specific traits you get those traits massively enhanced, this is not unique to Marijuana, in fact it is the norm, rather than the execption.
Compare wild strawberries and apples to the commercial variants and you will see that cultivation has made the specially bred strains huge and perhaps overly full of sugars.

A wild apple is generally more sour, harder to chew on direr and maybe 1/3 the size of a strain that was specially cultivated, even the more sour ones like Granny Smith.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Since the personal use of cannabis is allowed in the Netherlands (and the sale is unofficially tolerated, in a typically chaotic bit of bureaucratic lunacy), pretty much everybody has used it. Dutch cannibis is also known for containing about the highest concentrations of THC of all cannabis in the world.

It's harmless, light-weight stuff. I speak from personal experience, because everybody here dabbles in this stuff during their school days. For me, it quickly became clear that it does next to nothing. Besides, I don't like smoking at all, and consuming cannabis via 'space cake' (baking it into a cake, that is) also does practically nothing... and the cake tastes fairly shitty.

Anyway, people moaning about cannabis as if it's dangerous are... idiots.

Sure -- it can be dangerous if a moron smokes way too much of it. Beer is also dangerous if a moron drinks way too much of it. If you really let yourself go, both substances can become additive, although alcohol is far more addictive than cannabis could ever be. Tobacco is also much worse than cannabis, although still far less dangerous than alcohol, which is the most lethal drug on earth. (And no, not just because it's consumed the most. Alcohol-related deaths are much higher per capita than they are for any other drug on the planet.)

So, basically: if you want cannabis to be illegal, but you don't want to ban alcohol, tobacco, and for that matter, sugar (also a real 'hidden killer', and possibly the most addictive substance we have)... then you're both a retard and a hypocrite, and your opinion is worth less than shit.



Anyway, my own view is that all drugs should be 100% legal, because what you want to use is your own business, not anybody else's, and certainly not the government's. I note that drug prohibitions are very much a 'modern' thing, and that it's essentially a progressive idea. Part of the whole slew of 'nanny state' politics that were introduced in the last century or so. If you support banning drugs, you're basically a progressive left-winger, trying to run other people's lives. Non-regulation and personal responsibility is the correct, conservative position.

On the other hand, driving under the influence -- of any drug -- should be punished with jail time (serious jail time upon repeat offence), and killing or crippling another while doing so should carry a mandatory death sentence. That should solve the real issue.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Since the personal use of cannabis is allowed in the Netherlands (and the sale is unofficially tolerated, in a typically chaotic bit of bureaucratic lunacy), pretty much everybody has used it. Dutch cannibis is also known for containing about the highest concentrations of THC of all cannabis in the world.

It's harmless, light-weight stuff. I speak from personal experience, because everybody here dabbles in this stuff during their school days. For me, it quickly became clear that it does next to nothing. Besides, I don't like smoking at all, and consuming cannabis via 'space cake' (baking it into a cake, that is) also does practically nothing... and the cake tastes fairly shitty.

Anyway, people moaning about cannabis as if it's dangerous are... idiots.

Sure -- it can be dangerous if a moron smokes way too much of it. Beer is also dangerous if a moron drinks way too much of it. If you really let yourself go, both substances can become additive, although alcohol is far more addictive than cannabis could ever be. Tobacco is also much worse than cannabis, although still far less dangerous than alcohol, which is the most lethal drug on earth. (And no, not just because it's consumed the most. Alcohol-related deaths are much higher per capita than they are for any other drug on the planet.)

So, basically: if you want cannabis to be illegal, but you don't want to ban alcohol, tobacco, and for that matter, sugar (also a real 'hidden killer', and possibly the most addictive substance we have)... then you're both a retard and a hypocrite, and your opinion is worth less than shit.



Anyway, my own view is that all drugs should be 100% legal, because what you want to use is your own business, not anybody else's, and certainly not the government's. I note that drug prohibitions are very much a 'modern' thing, and that it's essentially a progressive idea. Part of the whole slew of 'nanny state' politics that were introduced in the last century or so. If you support banning drugs, you're basically a progressive left-winger, trying to run other people's lives. Non-regulation and personal responsibility is the correct, conservative position.

On the other hand, driving under the influence -- of any drug -- should be punished with jail time (serious jail time upon repeat offence), and killing or crippling another while doing so should carry a mandatory death sentence. That should solve the real issue.
Peeled hemp seeds are actually quite popular here as part of national quisine and folk medicine.
I know a few potheads and recreational users, other than one of them being super-lazy and happy go lucky I have not seen any adverse effects, they can be annoying when high, though, I mean bratty childish behavior.
What annoys me is the fact that all of the potheads manage to stink up almost every park with that crap.
Sure, there are laws against it, but enforcement is virtually non-existent.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Peeled hemp seeds are actually quite popular here as part of national quisine and folk medicine.
I know a few potheads and recreational users, other than one of them being super-lazy and happy go lucky I have not seen any adverse effects, they can be annoying when high, though, I mean bratty childish behavior.
What annoys me is the fact that all of the potheads manage to stink up almost every park with that crap.
Sure, there are laws against it, but enforcement is virtually non-existent.
Dedicated potheads tend to be annoying, for sure -- although shouty, violent idiots who are binge drinking tend to be far more irritating, at least to me.

I also feel that cannabis smells unpleasant -- although, again by way of comparison, I feel much the same about the smell of cigarettes.

I suspect that cannabis would best be consumed in the form of tea, as the ancients did it. ;)
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
I suspect that cannabis would best be consumed in the form of tea, as the ancients did it. ;)
I put fully legal hemp protein in my tea and coffee, as to cigars, well IMHO pot stinks worse and the stench spreads wider.
 

JasonSanjo

Your Overlord and Jester
Tobacco is also much worse than cannabis, although still far less dangerous than alcohol, which is the most lethal drug on earth. (And no, not just because it's consumed the most. Alcohol-related deaths are much higher per capita than they are for any other drug on the planet.)
A bit of an aside to the main subject of the thread, but alcohol actually "only" kills around 3 million people worldwide each year - including via things like drunk driving accidents, drunk drownings, etc.

Tobacco, by contrast, kills over 8 million people each year, or roughly 2.67x as many as alcohol. In addition, over 1.2 million of those deaths are non-smokers who die because of second-hand smoke inhalation - the majority of whom are exposed to it during childhood by their so-called "loved ones".

In short, alcohol doesn't come anywhere close to tobacco in terms of worldwide deaths per capita. Looking at individual countries, however, the distribution in deaths per capita may vary a bit.
 

Buba

A total creep
In short, alcohol doesn't come anywhere close to tobacco in terms of worldwide deaths per capita.
Such statistics are as biased and twisted as those for deaths attributed to so-called COVID.
Same la-la land as margarine versus butter health claims.

I'm in bed with all those saying that alcohol prolly is worse than marijuana. Also, what's the problem with taxing legal marijuana on THC level, same as alcohol?
 
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JasonSanjo

Your Overlord and Jester
Such statistics are as biased and twisted as those for deaths attributed to so-called COVID.
Same la-la land as margarine versus butter health claims.

I'm in bed with all those saying that alcohol prolly is worse than marijuana. Also, what's the problem with taxing legal marijuana on THC level, same as alcohol?
From what I've seen of the statistics - and associated research, and perhaps most importantly research funding - on all those things, that is not remotely true. But you are entitled to your opinion, as is anyone.

And alcohol is most certainly worse than marijuana, no question of that.

And on the separate topic of taxing, that is certainly one possible way of curbing issues with high THC content. Another way to go would be to legally institute caps based on empirical research - given currently available research, a cap of around 10% should suffice until further research has been carried out that could then potentially alter the cap upward, or lead to the institution of something like a prescription requirement for higher THC content. After all, as the article points out, widespread research hasn't been done on THC content higher than about 10%, so that would likely serve well as an initial starting point for what one might consider the maximum "safe" THC content. One might also take another look at age restrictions as well as enforcement of said age restrictions.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Regarding smoking, wanna know who does it a lot?
Arabs, Muslims in general, too.
They have some of the lowest cancer rates on the planet:
main-qimg-a0728f7c2418f32922558bd1ed464db4-c

Fasting helps the body go into a state called Autophagia, but IMHO there are a lot of other factors, including genetics and nutrition and the broader environment, not just cigars.

Also, more and more tobacco companies are moving towards smokeless tobacco, which reduces the crap that gets into one's organism drastically.
I have a few relatives who use the IQOS for example, and I'd rather inhale that directly than smell the stench potheads leave in the parks.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Im going to be honest.

I don't care.

The war on drugs is one of the most expensive failures in american history, we flushed billions upon billions of dollars of tax payer money on it. We gathered up the single largest incararation rate in the world, we have empowered the cartels and violent gangs who thrived on the black markets, we have corrupted our legal system and gave far too much power to the government.

In any way that matters the war on drugs was a freaking disaster.

And I'm tired of throwing money into a pit and watching it burn. At least when we blow money on a bridge to no where we get a fucking bridge.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
Educating people about the dangers of what they are being offered sounds to me like a good thing.
Especially if the drug-peddlers are telling you "it's natural, man!" when what they are peddling is about as natural as polystyrene, and far more dangerous.
 

Scottty

Well-known member
Founder
Im going to be honest.

I don't care.

The war on drugs is one of the most expensive failures in american history, we flushed billions upon billions of dollars of tax payer money on it. We gathered up the single largest incararation rate in the world, we have empowered the cartels and violent gangs who thrived on the black markets, we have corrupted our legal system and gave far too much power to the government.

In any way that matters the war on drugs was a freaking disaster.

And I'm tired of throwing money into a pit and watching it burn. At least when we blow money on a bridge to no where we get a fucking bridge.

The US gubbermint does seem to love declaring "War" on things that are not other countries, while refusing to call it war when they send their actual military out to kill people and break things in other parts of the world.

But then, if they'd declared a "War on Iraq", Saddam by now would be ruling over an empire to rival that of Nebuchadnezzar's.
 
Im going to be honest.

I don't care.

The war on drugs is one of the most expensive failures in american history, we flushed billions upon billions of dollars of tax payer money on it. We gathered up the single largest incararation rate in the world, we have empowered the cartels and violent gangs who thrived on the black markets, we have corrupted our legal system and gave far too much power to the government.

In any way that matters the war on drugs was a freaking disaster.

And I'm tired of throwing money into a pit and watching it burn. At least when we blow money on a bridge to no where we get a fucking bridge.

so basically prohibition 2.0
 

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
Nuke Mod
Moderator
Staff Member
I can support such attitude towards drugs, but only if followed by some kind of reasonably effective answer to a necessary follow up question - what are you going to do with the growing number of junkies falling into addiction and then doing #junkiethings, with now much less legal opportunities to limit them. Because generally people supporting such drug policy aren't for cops and/or private citizens just shooting people for doing #junkiethings.
And how many cigarette junkies do you see in this day and age? Banning something never solves addictions it only creates drug wars.

To successfully combat people being made into junkies simply make weed,legal to take away the forbidden attraction of it. Tax the ever-living hell out of it to make it expensive. Allow them to be sued with abandoned for false health advertising and within a number of years usage will simply drop.
 
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Buba

A total creep
Tax the ever-living hell out of it to make it expensive.
Of course, a balance needs to be struck between tax level and profitability of illegal production/smuggling.
Arabs, Muslims in general, too.
They have some of the lowest cancer rates on the planet:
Allah Akbar!
Educating people about the dangers of what they are being offered sounds to me like a good thing.
Does not work too well, I'm afraid. At least judging by myself. Maybe others were smarter ...

what are you going to do with the growing number of junkies falling into addiction
There is e.g.
or
and then doing #junkiethings, with now much less legal opportunities to limit them. Because generally people supporting such drug policy aren't for cops and/or private citizens just shooting people for doing #junkiethings.
I'm all for incarcerating or shooting those who do #junkiethings.
Legalisation will free up prison cells previously occupied by drug peddlers.
 
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Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
And how many cigarette junkies do you see in this day and age? Banning something never solves addictions it only creates drug wars.

To successfully combat people being made into junkies simply make weed, legal to take away the forbidden attraction of it. Tax the ever-living hell out of it to make it expensive. Allow them to be sued with abandoned for false health advertising and within a number of years usage will simply drop.
So basically a "soft ban". Note that cigarettes have *far* worse PR than weed among the young now. If they had similar PR as weed has now, we would be seeing rising numbers of cigarette junkies. Medicinal cigarettes anyone? You can even see the PR difference in this very thread.
And it is most well known for Alcoholics Anonymous, it works so great, there are almost no alcoholics around anymore thanks to it /s.
I'm all for incarcerating or shooting those who do #junkiethings.
Legalisation will free up prison cells previously occupied by drug peddlers.
Great. How many other people are willing to stand by it, and continue to stand by it after tens of thousands of Floyd style stories run through the media for the first few years?
 

Buba

A total creep
And it is most well known for Alcoholics Anonymous, it works so great, there are almost no alcoholics around anymore thanks to it /s.
You were asking what to do with junkies, i.e. those who are addicts already.
And that's what AA and other Twelve Step programmes are for - they are not about prevention but about cure/not on the take.
I will be an alcoholic until I die, so I will pad the figures of addicts, but AA keeps me dry and sane-ish. And not doing #junkiethings (or, in my case - #alkiethings).
 

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