Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Cherico]

Hi naive moron who will never border with Russia. There is no such thing as flexibility with Russia. There are only accomplished and undone facts.

And the facts are that our interest is contrary to yours, and we will without hesitation consign your interest to the dustbin. Thank the Russians, they are the ones who taught us this kind of thinking.

Another fact is, why the fuck should we sacrifice our own peace of mind for you? So many times in history we've had to do it, we've had fucking enough and no moron wanting a Russian dick will stop us in this.

I'll say it again, why should we once again get around the taste of our own prosperity and the like so that some shitty assholes can continue to spin ice cream with the Russkies? Because it's not you who will have Russian troops on the other side of the Bug but us. It is not you who will have to live with the memory that as soon as there is an opportunity for Russia to go west, it will do so.

while Batrix is being a little rude about it.

He's not wrong, Russia is by nature an expansionistic power and one that was incredibly cruel to non russian ethnics in both the soviet and Czarist imperial periods. Russia right now is the second fastest aging country in the world, their educational system was pretty much wreaked during the soviet collapse and their demographics were more or less obliterated by 70 plus years of slow national sucide.

The only way they can have defensable boarders in their minds is to expand were to.

The Baltics into the sea, all the way to the carpahian mountains, and poland up to the Vistula river. By doing their much smaller static army could in theory defend itself. One problem controlling all this territory that Russia feels they absolutely have to have to feel safe, implies them being the colonial overloards over a population larger then russia itself. Its going to be the genocide of the baltic peoples, the genocide of poles, and mass murder of millions.

And in the end of the day it still wont work because things in Russia are just that terminal. And if they do this by the way this means war with nato and because of how shit the russian military is they will use nukes. So the current goal is to bleed the Russian army to death in Ukraine.

For Poland, the balts, and every one in the splash zone this is a matter of not just national survival but survival itself. So yeah I get where they are coming from. That said I view this war as pretty much the last conflict of the cold war, and if Russia loses it they are done not just as a world power but as a regional one.

The best outcome for them at this point is chinese vassal state.

 

[Agent23]

while Batrix is being a little rude about it.

He's not wrong, Russia is by nature an expansionistic power and one that was incredibly cruel to non russian ethnics in both the soviet and Czarist imperial periods. Russia right now is the second fastest aging country in the world, their educational system was pretty much wreaked during the soviet collapse and their demographics were more or less obliterated by 70 plus years of slow national sucide.

The only way they can have defensable boarders in their minds is to expand were to.

The Baltics into the sea, all the way to the carpahian mountains, and poland up to the Vistula river. By doing their much smaller static army could in theory defend itself. One problem controlling all this territory that Russia feels they absolutely have to have to feel safe, implies them being the colonial overloards over a population larger then russia itself. Its going to be the genocide of the baltic peoples, the genocide of poles, and mass murder of millions.

And in the end of the day it still wont work because things in Russia are just that terminal. And if they do this by the way this means war with nato and because of how shit the russian military is they will use nukes. So the current goal is to bleed the Russian army to death in Ukraine.

For Poland, the balts, and every one in the splash zone this is a matter of not just national survival but survival itself. So yeah I get where they are coming from. That said I view this war as pretty much the last conflict of the cold war, and if Russia loses it they are done not just as a world power but as a regional one.

The best outcome for them at this point is chinese vassal state.

Nonsense.
Finland was part of the Russian Empire, population-wise it was a small country after WWII and a former Axis ally, so in theory the Russians could have gone in and set up a soviet republic there, but somehow that didn't happen and they found a way to live along with the Russians.


As long as no "ABM" missiles that can be used for a fast first strike are not placed in the Baltics and they stop using every chance they get to fuck with Russia and its potential friends like they did with Kurtz and their Russian minorities I think the Russians won't care about those little shitholes.


Ukraine will be split in at least 2 parts with a little piece becoming a buffer state, the Russians taking in the pro-Russian East and possibly Odessa for a mix of historic, ethno-cultural and strategic reasons and that is gonna be it, maybe they will get as far as Transnistria.


As long as they do not threaten cutting off the Caucasus or being able to hit Moscow in some form of decapitating first strike everything will be just fine, and your analysis is completely flawed.


The Ukrainians had a chance to negotiate twice, first during the Minsk meetings, then in Istanbul.

The Poles, Baltic shitholes, UK and US decided to egg on the worst elements of Ukraine to try and genocide Russians and turn Ukraine into the "anti-Russia" while expanding NATO despite promises never to do so, even up to the point where multiple countries hostile to Russia, its people and its interests were added to it and who have been stoking the flames of this conflict, this is all their fault.

Beatrix just suffers from the usual Polish Russia Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Marduk]

while Batrix is being a little rude about it.

He's not wrong, Russia is by nature an expansionistic power and one that was incredibly cruel to non russian ethnics in both the soviet and Czarist imperial periods. Russia right now is the second fastest aging country in the world, their educational system was pretty much wreaked during the soviet collapse and their demographics were more or less obliterated by 70 plus years of slow national sucide.

The only way they can have defensable boarders in their minds is to expand were to.

The Baltics into the sea, all the way to the carpahian mountains, and poland up to the Vistula river. By doing their much smaller static army could in theory defend itself. One problem controlling all this territory that Russia feels they absolutely have to have to feel safe, implies them being the colonial overloards over a population larger then russia itself. Its going to be the genocide of the baltic peoples, the genocide of poles, and mass murder of millions.

And in the end of the day it still wont work because things in Russia are just that terminal. And if they do this by the way this means war with nato and because of how shit the russian military is they will use nukes. So the current goal is to bleed the Russian army to death in Ukraine.

For Poland, the balts, and every one in the splash zone this is a matter of not just national survival but survival itself. So yeah I get where they are coming from. That said I view this war as pretty much the last conflict of the cold war, and if Russia loses it they are done not just as a world power but as a regional one.

The best outcome for them at this point is chinese vassal state.

It's not 18th century anymore, warfare has changed "defensible borders" are a more complicated questions than it was.
Russia is a nuclear power, no one is eager to invade those straight out.

If someone does, the invasion either dies to tactical nukes, or has a good, reliable enough way to deal with nukes, and if they have a way to deal with nukes, worse yet, if they have their own while they can deal with Russia's nukes, Russia would need to be in another star system to have "defensible borders" from a superpower this advanced, because an army capable of invading Russia from the west and overcoming its nuclear arsenal is so far a hypothetical army that would be terrifying to *any* of the western powers too, and probably wouldn't care much for few hundred kilometers more or less of strategic depth.

For any other kind of global security, expanding borders at any cost and at any excuse makes Russia's security lower rather than higher, with few allies, many enemies and many problems.

Now Russia is just using this thin and obsolete excuse to play crybully in the international arena while trying to rebuild old empire poorly.

 

[Cherico]

It's not 18th century anymore, warfare has changed "defensible borders" are a more complicated questions than it was.
Russia is a nuclear power, no one is eager to invade those straight out.

If someone does, the invasion either dies to tactical nukes, or has a good, reliable enough way to deal with nukes, and if they have a way to deal with nukes, worse yet, if they have their own while they can deal with Russia's nukes, Russia would need to be in another star system to have "defensible borders" from a superpower this advanced, because an army capable of invading Russia from the west and overcoming its nuclear arsenal is so far a hypothetical army that would be terrifying to *any* of the western powers too, and probably wouldn't care much for few hundred kilometers more or less of strategic depth.

For any other kind of global security, expanding borders at any cost and at any excuse makes Russia's security lower rather than higher, with few allies, many enemies and many problems.

Now Russia is just using this thin and obsolete excuse to play crybully in the international arena while trying to rebuild old empire poorly.

I said this was the russian mindset I never claimed russians were particularly brillent thinkers.

 

[Marduk]

I said this was the russian mindset I never claimed russians were particularly brillent thinkers.

Russian military-intelligence leadership can't be so stupid as to not know this. However it definitely is devious enough to pretend in front of people naive enough to cut it slack because of it.
That's why they can at the same time whine about NATO conventional forces on their border threatening them so much, and yet strip said borders of most of their forces to invade Ukraine while doing it.
If they were really afraid, would they expose themselves like that?
They did shit like this through the whole Cold War, and the people currently in charge of Russia have that in their resumes.

 

[Agent23]

Lol, the louder bronekokoshka actually makes a sense for the most part when speaking about nukes.
Then he goes back down the deep end of the usual Muh Russiah evil stuff.

Furst, not all wars and insurgencies need to be nuclear, and sometimes nuclear escalation might be dangerous or undesirable.

Also, we always have a few armchair generals who think that some type of super-fast decapitating strike can give you victory and that dem Russkies are all outa missiles, or that as long as only half the country dies out it is a win.

Also, for all those who think that the USA is run by smart people that would never start a nuclear war, well:

Gentle reminder who the president is.

Furthermore, Putin wouldn't have managed to stay in power if he had not gone into the Donbass because there was massive anger towards him and the other more middle ground/liberal/europhiliac parts of the Russian elite.


The criticism I see leveled at him is not "ree, he got us into a war" but rather "ree, why didn't we mobilize early on, take off the kit gloves and turn Kiev into a crater day one.

 

[mrttao]

Putin is just having thousands of Ukrainian kids kidnapped and 'Russified'.

That is incredibly based.
Every country should do that to their enemies.

Putin's military uses homosexual rape or forced oral sex between men as a punishment.
Putin's Russia has one of the highest HIV/STD rates in history.

Now that is actually very concerning and quite bad.
But... here is the thing. None of your arguments actually counter what you quoted.

Shieldwife did not say "putin is a good person doing good things"
Shieldwife said:
1. "the enemies of america are the neocons and neolibs who are doing A,B,C,D,E,F,G to america. Putin is irrelevant to america"
2. Putin is never going to be able to threaten america

You are trying to counter with the non arguments of "Putin Evil"
Even if Putin was an incarnation of literally Satan, it still won't be a counter argument to anything Shieldwife said.
Because shieldwife never said Putin is good. nor implied it. nor made any arguments that require him to be good.

Also, IIRC you are one of the people who told me that USA will "win" a nuclear war with Russia because Russia is so incompetent their bombs and ICBMs won't even work due to improper maintainence.

Yet now you want us to believe that without USA stopping him, putin will conquer all of europe and then conquer the USA next.
Absolutely laughable.

I am not saying Putin is a good person.
He is a slimy FSB shit deepstate mafioso who overthrew Russia's attempt at democracy to install himself as a petty Tyrant. One who happily collaborated with Russian Oligarchs to rape Russia... why, sounds a lot like what the American Oligarchs do to america.

But he has a snowball's chance in hell of ever threatening america.
America on the other hand is under dire existential threat from enemies within.
The American Oligarchs, Neocons, and Neolibs.
The Woke cult, and the Tech Cartels.

 

[Bacle]

That is incredibly based.
Every country should do that to their enemies.

Now that is actually very concerning and quite bad.
But... here is the thing. None of your arguments actually counter what you quoted.

Shieldwife did not say "putin is a good person doing good things"
Shieldwife said:
1. "the enemies of america are the neocons and neolibs who are doing A,B,C,D,E,F,G to america. Putin is irrelevant to america"
2. Putin is never going to be able to threaten america

You are trying to counter with the non arguments of "Putin Evil"
Even if Putin was an incarnation of literally Satan, it still won't be a counter argument to anything Shieldwife said.
Because shieldwife never said Putin is good. nor implied it. nor made any arguments that require him to be good.

Also, IIRC you are one of the people who told me that USA will "win" a nuclear war with Russia because Russia is so incompetent their bombs and ICBMs won't even work due to improper maintainence.

Yet now you want us to believe that without USA stopping him, putin will conquer all of europe and then conquer the USA next.
Absolutely laughable.

I am not saying Putin is a good person. He is a slimy FSB shit cut from the same cloth as the deep state that took over America.
But he has a snowball's chance in hell of ever threatening america.
America on the other hand is under dire existential threat from enemies within. The Neocons and Neolibs.

I notice you left out this bit:

Putin's Russia is already talking about pushing to Berlin, so Ukraine is not the end goal, just the first step on trying to take most of Europe.

This directly addressed the claim Putin is irrelevant to the US, which all the claims were predicated on.

See, this is the kinda bullshit avoidance of inconvenient facts that so many people who support Putin and Russia engage in in their 'debates'.

 

[Batrix2070]

Beatrix just suffers from the usual Polish Russia Derangement Syndrome.

Aha, legitimate reluctance is an insanity syndrome for you?

No no, that's cool. Awesome. Great description, the only sane person in the room./sarcasm

The criticism I see leveled at him is not "ree, he got us into a war" but rather "ree, why didn't we mobilize early on, take off the kit gloves and turn Kiev into a crater day one.

The answer is, because the Russians wanted a puppet Ukraine and they shit themselves. And now the fun is over, the U.S. will make sure Russia gets out of Ukraine. With or without the military.

while Batrix is being a little rude about it.

No, I'm not rude. I'm pissed off, at an extremely stubborn donkey who is so wedded to Russian propaganda that he has adopted their point of view as his own.

I don't mind him thinking in that Russia should win. Just let him shut up with his spin and be decent enough to say that he wants Bulgaria to get out of the anti-Russian madhouse and join Russia. Because so far it looks like he wants Bulgaria to have its cake and eat it too. So that it sits on two stools. And it's angry about being put in front of a choice of us or them.

Because the whole point of NATO has always been based on repelling Russia. Bullshit about how Poland should not drag NATO into its status goal is idiotic to me and it is a fact. (Not that Poland could do that, somehow no one listened to it until it turned out that those "insane" Poles on Russia's point were absolutely right.)

And if the EU is to be any kind of recognized organization it cannot for the time being, brazenly ignore the opinions of almost half its organization.

 

[mrttao]

You're ignoring the fact that everyone else's military isn't any better even on that front.

I am not.

I literally explicitly multiple times said china and russia are also paper tigers like the USA.
That west Europe effective has no military at all.
And that USA at least has good equipment which puts them ahead of some of the other paper tigers who have neither equipment nor troops.

I also noted that Ukraine has actual real men fighting using american equipment. which makes their army vastly more effective than what america's own army would be.

America could FIX its army, but it will take some work to undo the damage.

China, for example, spends more time indoctrinating their soldiers than training them, while Russia's has been exposed as little more than cannon fodder. As for most of Europe; well, their militaries may as well be considered vestigial at this point, with how little they choose to invest in either equipment or manpower.

Those are literally the words I said in the last few days, yes.

We are in the immensely curios situation right now where all the so called great powers are paper tigers. It is frankly hilarious.

 

[Marduk]

Lol, the louder bronekokoshka actually makes a sense for the most part when speaking about nukes.
Then he goes back down the deep end of the usual Muh Russiah evil stuff.

Furst, not all wars and insurgencies need to be nuclear, and sometimes nuclear escalation might be dangerous or undesirable.

Oh my, so it's no longer about NATO on borders and American imperialist invasion bringing globohomo right to Kremlin's doors threat?
Excellent.

So, how and where do insurgencies start? Generally inside the affected country unless it's a complete failed state, and they happen especially if there are major populations inside said country that have a big problem with the leadership... Like, being occupied and exploited and/or forcibly assimilated. For the sake of that concern, conquering more lands for strategic depth is counterproductive, because the insurgencies start and spread easily inside borders, so formal strategic depth on the map is useless, while such actions in themselves dramatically increase the chances of it happening.
A better alternative would be to spend all those resources on being less of a shithole. Fat and happy populations are too lazy to make insurgencies, that is a fact.

Nuclear escalation is always dangerous by own nature, so nice truism you have there.

Doesn't change the fact that if Russia does get into a war where few hundreds of kilometers of strategic depth are as vital for its survival as its apologists claim, well, then either nukes are on the table as a matter of survival, and so who the hell is doing it and what for, or it's really not a matter of survival for Russia and doesn't even warrant putting nukes on the table, so it's all a fucking lie, or the other side has a way to more or less negate the significance of nuclear weapons as a strategic deterrent, which means Russia is being invaded by someone that is effectively in the next era of warfare by virtue of being able to disregard the threat of largest ICBM stockpile in the world as easily as we are able to disregard the threat of fleets of galleons ruling the seas and hordes of horse archers ruling the plains, in which case Putin and company may be better off spending the time thinking up their conditional surrender already because that's a superpower straight out of sci-fi invading Russia.

The only solution to that is Russia ceasing to be a shithole and falling behind in economical and technological race against the West and China, something the current leadership is most likely neither willing to or capable of arranging, but that doesn't matter, as the current leadership is going to die long before the gap gets so bad.

Also, we always have a few armchair generals who think that some type of super-fast decapitating strike can give you victory and that dem Russkies are all outa missiles, or that as long as only half the country dies out it is a win.

Even most unimpressive armchair generals know what SSBNs and second strike capability are, it's not science fiction, it's something several countries had already in the Cold War.
If US leadership considered gaming the issue with "super-fast decapitating strikes" a serious enough idea, they would have already tested it out with at least the significantly less capable nuclear forces of Pakistan or North Korea, both eager to provide a casus belli if USA ever needs one.

If Russia is truly worried about that, no amount of conquests will help here, other than conquering corruption and general shoddiness in own defense industry and navy, to make sure the second strike capability works as intended. But as Kursk, Moskva and Kuznetsov demonstrate, those aren't any more threatened than Switzerland.

Also, for all those who think that the USA is run by smart people that would never start a nuclear war, well:

Gentle reminder who the president is.

Furthermore, Putin wouldn't have managed to stay in power if he had not gone into the Donbass because there was massive anger towards him and the other more middle ground/liberal/europhiliac parts of the Russian elite.

If Putin didn't want to have issues with Donbass there would have been no FSB agents in Donbass organizing and then supplying the separatists in the first place. Are you implying that the FSB has gone rogue and is dragging poor Volodya into imperial ventures against his will?

The criticism I see leveled at him is not "ree, he got us into a war" but rather "ree, why didn't we mobilize early on, take off the kit gloves and turn Kiev into a crater day one.

One of these is illegal in Russia and aggressively prosecuted, here's your answer.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

As long as no "ABM" missiles that can be used for a fast first strike are not placed in the Baltics and they stop using every chance they get to fuck with Russia and its potential friends like they did with Kurtz and their Russian minorities I think the Russians won't care about those little shitholes.

This is pretty much false. Russia has been expansionist since the collapse. I honestly view Putin as Lando Molari in the early run of B5. "We will return to the glory days!"

The Ukrainians had a chance to negotiate twice, first during the Minsk meetings, then in Istanbul.

You know...Russia could have chosen to NOT invade...from the beginning...just a thought.

Russian military-intelligence leadership can't be so stupid as to not know this.

Never bet against stupidity. Also, never pretend that which you believe to be obvious is also obvious to your enemy.

If they were really afraid, would they expose themselves like that?

Russians react to fear with overt aggression. It's built into them culturally.

 

[Marduk]

Never bet against stupidity. Also, never pretend that which you believe to be obvious is also obvious to your enemy.

If Russian leadership doesn't consider this basic knowledge, they should be investing all the resources they are using in Ukraine into improving their military academies instead. Or better yet, sell those to a supermarket chain and send the generals to study in Beijing or even Pyongyang, because such a scenario means these academies are fucking worthless.

Alternatively, which is the scenario i subscribe to, they know all this and more, but that knowledge is for the generals, not the propagandists, and most certainly not their target audience, domestic or international. Those can be fed any kind of bullshit and their job is to swallow it.

Russians react to fear with overt aggression. It's built into them culturally.

In which case they are dangerously paranoid, and as such, irrational, and need meds before they try this shit with China.

 

[Bacle]

If Russian leadership doesn't consider this basic knowledge, they should be investing all the resources they are using in Ukraine into improving their military academies instead. Or better yet, sell those to a supermarket chain and send the generals to study in Beijing or even Pyongyang, because such a scenario means these academies are fucking worthless.

Alternatively, which is the scenario i subscribe to, they know all this and more, but that knowledge is for the generals, not the propagandists, and most certainly not their target audience, domestic or international. Those can be fed any kind of bullshit and their job is to swallow it.

In which case they are dangerously paranoid, and as such, irrational, and need meds before they try this shit with China.

No, let the Russians try shit with the CCP; it would be to pretty much everyone else'e benefit if the Bear and Snake are at eat other's throats.

 

[Agent23]

Oh my, so it's no longer about NATO on borders and American imperialist invasion bringing globohomo right to Kremlin's doors threat?
Excellent.

So, how and where do insurgencies start? Generally inside the affected country unless it's a complete failed state, and they happen especially if there are major populations inside said country that have a big problem with the leadership... Like, being occupied and exploited and/or forcibly assimilated. For the sake of that concern, conquering more lands for strategic depth is counterproductive, because the insurgencies start and spread easily inside borders, so formal strategic depth on the map is useless, while such actions in themselves dramatically increase the chances of it happening.
A better alternative would be to spend all those resources on being less of a shithole. Fat and happy populations are too lazy to make insurgencies, that is a fact.

Nuclear escalation is always dangerous by own nature, so nice truism you have there.

Doesn't change the fact that if Russia does get into a war where few hundreds of kilometers of strategic depth are as vital for its survival as its apologists claim, well, then either nukes are on the table as a matter of survival, and so who the hell is doing it and what for, or it's really not a matter of survival for Russia and doesn't even warrant putting nukes on the table, so it's all a fucking lie, or the other side has a way to more or less negate the significance of nuclear weapons as a strategic deterrent, which means Russia is being invaded by someone that is effectively in the next era of warfare by virtue of being able to disregard the threat of largest ICBM stockpile in the world as easily as we are able to disregard the threat of fleets of galleons ruling the seas and hordes of horse archers ruling the plains, in which case Putin and company may be better off spending the time thinking up their conditional surrender already because that's a superpower straight out of sci-fi invading Russia.

The only solution to that is Russia ceasing to be a shithole and falling behind in economical and technological race against the West and China, something the current leadership is most likely neither willing to or capable of arranging, but that doesn't matter, as the current leadership is going to die long before the gap gets so bad.

Even most unimpressive armchair generals know what SSBNs and second strike capability are, it's not science fiction, it's something several countries had already in the Cold War.
If US leadership considered gaming the issue with "super-fast decapitating strikes" a serious enough idea, they would have already tested it out with at least the significantly less capable nuclear forces of Pakistan or North Korea, both eager to provide a casus belli if USA ever needs one.

If Russia is truly worried about that, no amount of conquests will help here, other than conquering corruption and general shoddiness in own defense industry and navy, to make sure the second strike capability works as intended. But as Kursk, Moskva and Kuznetsov demonstrate, those aren't any more threatened than Switzerland.

If Putin didn't want to have issues with Donbass there would have been no FSB agents in Donbass organizing and then supplying the separatists in the first place. Are you implying that the FSB has gone rogue and is dragging poor Volodya into imperial ventures against his will?

One of these is illegal in Russia and aggressively prosecuted, here's your answer.

Oh, it is about all thet, too.

Like all complex geopolitical situations it takes multiple ingredients and multiple cooks to spoil the stew.

Or maybe you actually think it was just about Franz Ferdinand getting breined in Sarajevo or that WWII just started because of two deranged lunatics coming into power?

 

[Bacle]

Americans arrested for allegedly sending aviation technology to Russia

Two Americans were arrested in Kansas City on Thursday for an alleged scheme to send aviation-related technology to Russia in violation of U.S. export controls.

www.reuters.com

Well, hope they like 30 years at Leavenworth/ADX.

 

[Marduk]

Oh, it is about all thet, too.

Like all complex geopolitical situations it takes multiple ingredients and multiple cooks to spoil the stew.

Or maybe you actually think it was just about Franz Ferdinand getting breined in Sarajevo or that WWII just started because of two deranged lunatics coming into power?

Yeah, sure, geopolitics, conflicting interests, grand ideas, war is continuation of politics by other means and so on.

But what are you getting at? Just because there are many other motives and reasons at play, doesn't mean those are the specific ones certain quite obvious axe grinders try so hard to make you believe they are. There are effectively unlimited ways to spin any situation, except by the spinner's imagination, doesn't mean they can all be true if repeated enough, or more specifically, they are convenient enough for someone to fund their wide public promotion.

 

[Agent23]

Yeah, sure, geopolitics, conflicting interests, grand ideas, war is continuation of politics by other means and so on.

But what are you getting at? Just because there are many other motives and reasons at play, doesn't mean those are the specific ones certain quite obvious axe grinders try so hard to make you believe they are. There are effectively unlimited ways to spin any situation, except by the spinner's imagination, doesn't mean they can all be true if repeated enough, or more specifically, they are convenient enough for someone to fund their wide public promotion.

There are also countless ways for people to generate empty rhetoric without contributing anything of significance.


I am getting at the fact that Russia and the Russians as a people irrespective of who is in the Kremlin have a lot of different interests which they did not defend for a few decades because they were either being run by a drunk thet got elected with help from abroad, because their economy was collapsing, because they believed the "not an inch east" rhetoric, etc.

Meanwhile, a number of small, loud shitty countries like the Baltics sprsng up as successor states to the USSR, which didn't really care about the Russian ethnic interest or make contingency plans for after it's fall because muh socialist global utopia, hence ethnic Russians or what Putin calls Russian speakers got stranded all over the place, including in newly created counties with shaky foundations like Ukraine that quiver like leaves in the wind at the thought of separatism because they are not that legitimate to begin with.
Think places like Ukraine which was mostly a commie Frankenstein's monster, the Baltics with their segregated Russian populations and the like.

Add to that the attempts of some counties to interfere in Russian internal affairs or place first strike weapons hear to their borders for a decapitation strike and you get an ugly situation.

One way to defuse it is for the Baltics and a few other places to acknowledge they are artificial constructs of the USSR to a large degree and to swallow the fact that there is a large country they were once part of next door and deal with it like adults.

As to Poland, well, first off it needs to deal with it's fear which makes it act like a manic depressive neurotic teenagebrat throwing a tantrum.

So, first off, stop thinking you will get any Zhoposhspolita back.

Second, instead of playing silly games abroad you can just acquire nuclear weapons for "Muskov" deterrence.

Then, you might be able to sit on a table and negotiate with the Russians and everyone can act like adults.

The problem is that Poland is not seeing itself as strong, the process blem is that you guys have been told too many nasty bedtime stories about the Russians and now, with them trying to reassert themselves in their near abroad you are going ballistic.

 

[AmosTrask]

Russian leadership doesn't consider this basic knowledge, they should be investing all the resources they are using in Ukraine into improving their military academies instead. Or better yet, sell those to a supermarket chain and send the generals to study in Beijing or even Pyongyang, because such a scenario means these academies are fucking worthless

The CCP is much worse. Major General Mao Xinyu their head of Strategic Warfare, commander 10,000 men and of the espionage operation that has CCP police stations they've setup all over the world where there is a significant population of Chinese. And a University professor is functionally illiterate, morbidly obese and has the conversational capacity of a 12 year old. He holds all these titles and power due to his name and grandfather Mao Zedong. Supposedly he has written many books, but his claims of authorial prowess are in doubt. He is the favorite but of Chinese netizens for how obviously incompetent he is and yet the CCP spends millions every year to keep the facade that he inherited his grandfather's greatness(1). China is just better at putting up a fierce facade than Russia.

1 Mao destroyed China and set back its development 80 years with his antics. Which many of China's neighbors enjoyed seeing. Schadenfreude I think the Germans call the feeling

 

[Marduk]

There are also countless ways for people to generate empty rhetoric without contributing anything of significance.


I am getting at the fact that Russia and the Russians as a people irrespective of who is in the Kremlin have a lot of different interests which they did not defend for a few decades because they were either being run by a drunk thet got elected with help from abroad, because their economy was collapsing, because they believed the "not an inch east" rhetoric, etc.

Sure, if you are trying to convince me that a lot of Russians support the idea of Russian Empire rebuilding style policy, i'm not one of the "Russians are poor little liberals like everyone else oppressed by oligarchs and FSB" people, i can believe that.

Meanwhile, a number of small, loud shitty countries like the Baltics sprsng up as successor states to the USSR, which didn't really care about the Russian ethnic interest or make contingency plans for after it's fall because muh socialist global utopia, hence ethnic Russians or what Putin calls Russian speakers got stranded all over the place, including in newly created counties with shaky foundations like Ukraine that quiver like leaves in the wind at the thought of separatism because they are not that legitimate to begin with.
Think places like Ukraine which was mostly a commie Frankenstein's monster, the Baltics with their segregated Russian populations and the like.

The tone of the first sentence is touching and very informative of your bias.
I'll play the world's smallest violin for Russia's half-aborted attempts at settler colonizing nearby countries.

For the unfortunate people mixed up in them, i have the same advice i have for the diverse migrants who want to change western countries to be more like their homelands.
If you hate it here, perhaps think the people here are mean to you and treat you badly, and you want to live somewhere that's more like your home, then go fucking home.
They don't even have the excuse that their homeland is a war torn failed state (yet) or overcrowded like Bangladesh. If they love Russia so much they can't learn the local language and care so much about its culture, and are supposedly treated so badly where they are, why don't they move there? It's not like the Balts are sending everyone they catch on the border to death camps, they would fucking roll out a red carpet for them to fuck off.

Add to that the attempts of some counties to interfere in Russian internal affairs or place first strike weapons hear to their borders for a decapitation strike and you get an ugly situation.

Crimea river. It's nothing other countries don't do or deal with, and Russia is in no way behind the world average in this kind of stuff.

One way to defuse it is for the Baltics and a few other places to acknowledge they are artificial constructs of the USSR to a large degree and to swallow the fact that there is a large country they were once part of next door and deal with it like adults.

Yes, surrender sure is a way to defuse a tension with an expansionist power next door that has colonized them already in the past.
But whether it's a good way... let's not ask the people who are biased towards it.

As to Poland, well, first off it needs to deal with it's fear which makes it act like a manic depressive neurotic teenagebrat throwing a tantrum.

Lol... Russia first. If you want to use paranoia to excuse shitty behavior for Russia, we have better excuses.

So, first off, stop thinking you will get any Zhoposhspolita back.

So, first off Russia needs to stop thinking it will be an Empire or a Soviet Union like entity again. Ever. See, i can be a smartass too.

Second, instead of playing silly games abroad you can just acquire nuclear weapons for "Muskov" deterrence.

Nice try, asshole. Maybe when NPT dies through shenanigans in Asia and ME. Until then, becoming Europe's Iran or NK would only help Moscow's schemes regarding us and a lot, so no.
We still need to have beneficial economic ties with countries that aren't trying to turn us into a satrapy and ways to deal with hybrid warfare style threats that Moscow is more than eager to use, don't play smartass games with me like that, stick your "neutrality" you know where.

Then, you might be able to sit on a table and negotiate with the Russians and everyone can act like adults.

"Negotiate" is such an abused word these days. We don't want to negotiate the things they want, and they don't want to negotiate the things we want.

The problem is that Poland is not seeing itself as strong, the process blem is that you guys have been told too many nasty bedtime stories about the Russians and now, with them trying to reassert themselves in their near abroad you are going ballistic.

Since when Russia does not see us as a part of their "near abroad" and if not, what stops it from seeing us as their "near abroad" again whenever convenient?
If Russians "reassert themselves in their near abroad", this obviously is also our "near abroad" if not us too, so we absolutely have good reasons to go ballistic.

It's hard to avoid noticing how you complain about Poland's attempts, real and imagined, to "reassert itself in its near abroad" and paint it as some sort of unreasonable nostalgia for past greatness... but at the same time consider Russia's far more aggressive and ambitious attempts at the same something natural that everyone should just roll with and negotiate (their surrender) to. Projection much?
I'll offer you a compromise then - i can accept that double standard, but we have to switch the standards around to the other country, how about that?
I have absolute zero tolerance for this "sphere of influence for me, not for thee" crap Russia simps try to sell. This shit is exactly why Russia has such disappointing and falling levels of soft power in the near-abroad.