Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[ATP]

there won't be a europe, china, or america either

the entire western world is funneling weapons towards russia's enemies, which is a clear act of war meant to push russia's back against a corner. Without any regards to the fact that they are literally starting world war 3.

Use logic.Moscov attacked Ukraine,not Ukraine Moscov.Giving some weapons to thugs victim is not act of war against said thugs.
Basides,If Biden wanted Moscov destroyed,he would send 100 HIMARS to Ukraine 5 month ago,with tanks and planes.Since he send 16 with limited ammo without planes,he want deal.
And,when he get that deal,he would leave Ukraine to kgb butchers.Poland maybe,too.

And,even if WW3 start,Kgbstan would be destroyed becouse you need to burn Moscov,Petersburg and that hidden city on Ural for that.
USA? without Washington and New York it would be better place to live.To destroy them you need burn at least 200 cities.
postsoviets do not have that much operational missiles left.

So,if war happen,there would be no KGBstan,and damaged USA.

 

[mrttao]

Use logic.Moscov attacked Ukraine,not Ukraine Moscov.Giving some weapons to thugs victim is not act of war against said thugs.

utterly irrelevant nonsense.

It does not matter who is at fault. It does not matter who started the war. It does not matter who is the "thug".

If there is a war between two countries, and a 3rd country joins a side, then they are now part of the war. You can scream "it doesn't count" from the rooftops and it won't change the fact that you are joining a war.

 

[ATP]

utterly irrelevant nonsense.

It does not matter who is at fault. It does not matter who started the war. It does not matter who is the "thug".

If there is a war between two countries, and a 3rd country joins a side, then they are now part of the war. You can scream "it doesn't count" from the rooftops and it won't change the fact that you are joining a war.

Utterly irrelevant nonsense.

Only if it is war.But,for Moscov it is still special operation.They could scream from rooftops,but as long as they do not say that they started war they could not complain.

Besides,all they need is to made deal with Biden handlers,and they could genocide Ukraine,Baltics and Poand to their heart content.
Becouse,if USA really wanted help Ukraine,they would send 100 HIMARS 5 months ago,not 16 now.
We should pray for long live of Putin - every other soviet would take USA deal and massacred us long ago.

 

[Zachowon]

Literally your entire argument here is your own mental fabrication, based on putting words in my mouth and/or thoughts in my head. This is both terrible argumentation, and reveals that you really haven't bothered to put any detailed thought into actual reasons someone would disagree with you.

No country is perfect. No country is utterly without any redeeming factor whatsoever.

In this flawed world we live in, when a conflict between other nations takes place, you have three options. Support side A as the lighter shade of gray, support side B as the lighter shade of gray, or decide they're both terrible enough you're not going to support either.

Both the Ukraine and Russia have chronic corruption problems, civil rights problems, and general assholery problems.

But Russia pulled the trigger on this conflict, has gotten tens of thousands killed, and will probably get millions more killed through induced famine effects. Ukraine did not start the violence, Russia did. If you want to claim otherwise, state directly what Ukraine did that justifies Russia's bloody onslaught.

And thus Russia is in this conflict the darker shade of gray, justly seen as the villain, and having their imperial ambitions thwarted is in the interests of every other nation in Europe, because Russia has proven itself to be a very real threat to any neighbor's sovereignty. A 'strict isolationist' argument can be made for keeping the US out, but if we're going to have allies in Europe, helping the Ukrainians wreck the Russian military further away from them makes sense.

Something something NATO expansion, something something Ukraine building forces

 

[LordsFire]

utterly irrelevant nonsense.

It does not matter who is at fault. It does not matter who started the war. It does not matter who is the "thug".

If there is a war between two countries, and a 3rd country joins a side, then they are now part of the war. You can scream "it doesn't count" from the rooftops and it won't change the fact that you are joining a war.

This isn't just not true, it's the exact opposite of true.

Nations and empires throughout the course of history have contributed to one side or another of a war without actively taking part for centuries.

Or are you using a definition of war that includes 'our soldiers aren't fighting, we aren't being attacked, we aren't attacking them, but we're part of the war.'

A case can be made for that, I suppose, after all the 'Cold War' was called the Cold War, but that's a very different use of the term.

 

[Marduk]

If there is a war between two countries, and a 3rd country joins a side, then they are now part of the war. You can scream "it doesn't count" from the rooftops and it won't change the fact that you are joining a war.

In that case, ooof, i guess we have survived WW3 between USA, USSR and PRC in the 60's, and it didn't even go nuclear.

 

[Bacle]

'Accidents can happen at European nuclear plants too,' Russian ex-president says

Russian ex-president Dmitry Medvedev issued a veiled threat on Friday to Ukraine's Western allies who have accused Russia of creating the risk of a nuclear catastrophe by stationing forces around the Ukrainian Zaporizhzhia power station.

www.reuters.com

Looks like the Russians are issuing veiled threats in relation to the nuclear plants in NATO/Europe.

 

[Marduk]

'Accidents can happen at European nuclear plants too,' Russian ex-president says

Russian ex-president Dmitry Medvedev issued a veiled threat on Friday to Ukraine's Western allies who have accused Russia of creating the risk of a nuclear catastrophe by stationing forces around the Ukrainian Zaporizhzhia power station.

www.reuters.com

Looks like the Russians are issuing veiled threats in relation to the nuclear plants in NATO/Europe.

Medvedev is currently low in the ladder of Russian leadership elites, possibly dangerously close to getting sacrificed in the next corruption scandal, so he's trying to out hardline the hardliners to keep some relevance.

 

[Bacle]

Medvedev is currently low in the ladder of Russian leadership elites, possibly dangerously close to getting sacrificed in the next corruption scandal, so he's trying to out hardline the hardliners to keep some relevance.

This ought to give him and the rest another tizzy to deal with.



The Fins and Estonia are going to close off the Baltic to Russian ships, and basically isolate St. Petersburg from the Atlantic, once Finland enters NATO.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

That's an interesting step to take.

 

[Marduk]

This ought to give him and the rest another tizzy to deal with.



The Fins and Estonia are going to close off the Baltic to Russian ships, and basically isolate St. Petersburg from the Atlantic, once Finland enters NATO.

Wonder how can they do that other than symbolically.

 

[gral]

Wonder how can they do that other than symbolically.

Distance from Estonia to Finland is around 80 kilometres(50 miles) or so at the narrowest point(those peninsulas next to Tallinn and Helsinki). IIRC, there is a small(big enough to put a fort on it) island in the middle of the Gulf of Finland at the area. Lay mines to supplement the coastal sites at will.

This is the same game plan for both countries as it was in the 1930s(except they were using coastal guns then, and would be using anti-ship missiles now). Of course, Russia has a say in that, and one can expect them to act to prevent this.

 

[Marduk]

Distance from Estonia to Finland is around 80 kilometres(50 miles) or so at the narrowest point(those peninsulas next to Tallinn and Helsinki). IIRC, there is a small(big enough to put a fort on it) island in the middle of the Gulf of Finland at the area. Lay mines to supplement the coastal sites at will.

This is the same game plan for both countries as it was in the 1930s(except they were using coastal guns then, and would be using anti-ship missiles now). Of course, Russia has a say in that, and one can expect them to act to prevent this.

>western countries mining legally international waterways in peacetime
Yeah, not happening.
But yeah, in wartime, when willing to just shoot at Russian warships, the area can be turned into one hell of a AShM shooting gallery.

 

[bintananth]

>western countries mining legally international waterways in peacetime
Yeah, not happening.
But yeah, in wartime, when willing to just shoot at Russian warships, the area can be turned into one hell of a AShM shooting gallery.

Sorta like the like the Straights of Hormuz, Turkey, and Gibraltar or some of the larger navigable rivers: if the locals object to the presence of a hostile foreign warship, said warship is going down.

 

[gral]

>western countries mining legally international waterways in peacetime
Yeah, not happening.

As you said, not in peacetime. But you can bet the minefields are already marked in maps for the time mining is needed.

 

[Marduk]

As you said, not in peacetime. But you can bet the minefields are already marked in maps for the time mining is needed.

In case of war, possible, but considering the last NATO expansion, not even necessary or fast. The sheer amount of NATO AShMs covering the approaches to Russian waters would be enough to sink anything Russian in Baltic several times over.

 

[gral]

In case of war, possible, but considering the last NATO expansion, not even necessary or fast. The sheer amount of NATO AShMs covering the approaches to Russian waters would be enough to sink anything Russian in Baltic several times over.

Surface ships, yes. Submarines no.

 

[Marduk]

Surface ships, yes. Submarines no.

Usually not targeted with mines. Likewise, ASW assets and friendly small submarines, massive NATO advantage.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Kazakhstan will be rerouting more oil through a Caspian Sea pipeline that travels through Azerbaijan and Georgia etc after Russian courts 'temporarily' suspending the export of oil to and through Russia weeks earlier. It's presently a small flow, about one percent of its current exports, but has room for expansion several times over in the coming year alone potentially.

Kazakhstan To Reroute Oil Flow From Caspian Pipeline | OilPrice.com

Kazakhstan is looking to re-route some of its export oil away from the Caspian Pipeline Consortium to avoid further Russian suspensions

oilprice.com

 

[Bacle]