Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

Skallagrim

Well-known member
Man, but these are just tools for storytelling! One could deprive Luke, of the Force. Remove the Force from the entire SW story and still the point of the story would remain the same!

Because at no point did the uniqueness and attachment to Luke come from the fact that he has the Force! It only resulted from the character itself!

It's just that the whole mystical setting given to SW by the phenomenon called the Force makes the story stand out, but that just colors the whole story!

You might as well move SW to Communist Poland, like when I showed the paintings done by AI. Change the tools of storytelling that make SW just SW. And change the names of the characters to typically Polish names, the whole point of the story will remain the same and that will attract people to watch the story.

Superpowers are meaningless, which is why many of today's characters built by Woke are so boring and unengaging. Because the whole point of the characters is based solely on their superpowers and without them they mean nothing.

Case in point: Luke achieves victory over evil not by using the Force in a superior way, or by besting the Emperor in a duel... but by throwing his sabre aside. It's not the Force that defines him, but his pure character.

Of course, it would be SO MUCH MORE MATURE AND REALISTIC if he was actually a jaded killer who inhabits the same murky realm as the villains. In fact, why is Palpatine so two-dimensional. He really needs a back-story that explains how society made him evil. Because that's for serious people with serious opinions. Who wants childish hero stories with moral lessons? Bah! Humbug! ;)
 

Lord Sovereign

The resident Britbong
The problem is that Vader can be really unstable. His general disinterest in administration, plus his tendency to murder anyone who fails or pisses him off, will cause a lot of the high officers to ask "Why do we need this guy around, exactly?" -- And since he's weeded out the morons, he's surrounded by competent officers...
Ironically I wouldn't be so sure as the thing that makes him unstable is gone in this situation: Palpatine.

"The Senate" might not be holding his leash anymore, but Vader would be free of his toxic influence at that point. One wonders whether or not the new Emperor might command a new, more comfortable suit to be made for him, which would do wonders for his mood.

And whilst he is disinterested, we do have examples of him having a modicum of competence when it comes to navigating the imperial court. He's no Machiavellian master, but he can do it if he needs to.

Rather amusingly, this is where one realises the new centre of Imperial power is now Mustafar. Vader's castle is now the new Imperial Palace.
Tarkin would be having a field day, since he gets along pretty okay with Vader, and Vader's regime will basically be the dream of the Militarist faction come true. I think Vader didn't get along well with Thrawn at times (different philosophies), but that may have been caused in part by Palpy manipulating conflicts between his subordinates. Vader in charge would supposedly give Thrawn a better shot at turning the Empire into the sort of "no-nonsense dictatorship" he was hoping it would become.

I think, whilst Tarkin would become the Empire's Chancellor in everything but name, there'd still be some friction as Vader was never a massive fan of the Death Star. Indeed, as someone who is deeply pragmatic, militarily gifted, and still fond of fighter craft, I could see Vader's Navy adopting a "soft" Thrawn Doctrine.

I've always thought of Palpy as an "purely evil Caesar" (who doesn't get assassinated), rather than an Augustus-- but I suppose that's a peripheral point. Vader isn't really Augustus material, either. In fact, he'd be fairly shit at ruling, but this would (as you say) be solved in large part by him not ruling.
To Vader's credit, he knows this. Indeed, that is what I think would make him a half decent ruler. He's not a control freak, he understands his limitations, is happy to delegate to people who know what they are doing, and is a closet meritocrat. Those are...good attributes.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Man, but these are just tools for storytelling! One could deprive Luke, of the Force. Remove the Force from the entire SW story and still the point of the story would remain the same!

Because at no point did the uniqueness and attachment to Luke come from the fact that he has the Force! It only resulted from the character itself!

It's just that the whole mystical setting given to SW by the phenomenon called the Force makes the story stand out, but that just colors the whole story!

You might as well move SW to Communist Poland, like when I showed the paintings done by AI. Change the tools of storytelling that make SW just SW. And change the names of the characters to typically Polish names, the whole point of the story will remain the same and that will attract people to watch the story.

Superpowers are meaningless, which is why many of today's characters built by Woke are so boring and unengaging. Because the whole point of the characters is based solely on their superpowers and without them they mean nothing.

The very fact that the author has to specifically remove them in order for you to see the character itself, as in the case of Sam, means that you rather have a problem in looking at what kind of person he is and not what kind of abilities he has.
Well Propaganda is not, in and of itself, the same thing as what we're talking about namely stories of heroism and stark, contrasting good and evil. You certainly can use such stories for propaganda purposes but simply pushing a "better dead than Red" idea isn't really a worldview but a reflection of one's worldview.

Without an underlying framework to teach the next generation there is a clear wrong from right, and much of culture in the 50's and 60's was drifting away from that, all the propaganda about how Communists are evil can be brushed off as "The US does bad things too so their equally culpable".

Just to pick one example I have some experience with, compare Howard's Conan of the 30's to Moorcock's Elric of the 60's. While both are "dark characters" who do at times unsavory things Conan has a very clear conscious and code of ethics which he will uphold against God or Civilized man. That there is a good and a bad and a man must choose. While Elric is, while a fantastic and imaginative universe, almost the opposite. Nothing matters, man has no control over his fate including most of all our titular character and the universe is governed not by right or wrong but by balancing Order and Chaos.
Eh, except without the Force, Luke doesn't make the shot that takes out the DS, so yes Luke's specialness and survival/victory was directly tied to the Force, and who his parents are/were.

Luke was a 'Chosen One', and that is the problem; there are no 'Chosen Ones' in life and the sooner kids get that, the better.

Which is why showing how many other people had to do what they did, to even give Luke a chance of being where he was when he was, and showing it for the ugly realities we know are involved in insurgent warfare that have nothing to do with any magical BS, is so fucking important. The 'Chosen One' only got to do what they did because millions, billions of other fought and died to get to that point.

It's also why I liked Sam, he was 'chosen' by just being to concerned and nossy when Gandalf came around, something utterly mundane, and nothing to do with his parents or any special abilities.

But enough on this.
Ironically I wouldn't be so sure as the thing that makes him unstable is gone in this situation: Palpatine.

"The Senate" might not be holding his leash anymore, but Vader would be free of his toxic influence at that point. One wonders whether or not the new Emperor might command a new, more comfortable suit to be made for him, which would do wonders for his mood.

And whilst he is disinterested, we do have examples of him having a modicum of competence when it comes to navigating the imperial court. He's no Machiavellian master, but he can do it if he needs to.

Rather amusingly, this is where one realises the new centre of Imperial power is now Mustafar. Vader's castle is now the new Imperial Palace.


I think, whilst Tarkin would become the Empire's Chancellor in everything but name, there'd still be some friction as Vader was never a massive fan of the Death Star. Indeed, as someone who is deeply pragmatic, militarily gifted, and still fond of fighter craft, I could see Vader's Navy adopting a "soft" Thrawn Doctrine.


To Vader's credit, he knows this. Indeed, that is what I think would make him a half decent ruler. He's not a control freak, he understands his limitations, is happy to delegate to people who know what they are doing, and is a closet meritocrat. Those are...good attributes.
I've always thought of Palpy as an "purely evil Caesar" (who doesn't get assassinated), rather than an Augustus-- but I suppose that's a peripheral point. Vader isn't really Augustus material, either. In fact, he'd be fairly shit at ruling, but this would (as you say) be solved in large part by him not ruling.

He'd have zero time for toadies like Mas Amedda or Sate Pestage, and he wouldn't tolerate failure, so a lot of promoted-via-backstabbing-and-politicking-but-actually-not-very-capable OTL Imperial officers would not get in key positions.

Tarkin would be having a field day, since he gets along pretty okay with Vader, and Vader's regime will basically be the dream of the Militarist faction come true. I think Vader didn't get along well with Thrawn at times (different philosophies), but that may have been caused in part by Palpy manipulating conflicts between his subordinates. Vader in charge would supposedly give Thrawn a better shot at turning the Empire into the sort of "no-nonsense dictatorship" he was hoping it would become.

The problem is that Vader can be really unstable. His general disinterest in administration, plus his tendency to murder anyone who fails or pisses him off, will cause a lot of the high officers to ask "Why do we need this guy around, exactly?" -- And since he's weeded out the morons, he's surrounded by competent officers...

Assassination plots ahoy!
See, this forgets Vader/Anakin still held a grudge against Tarkin for Ahsoka's trial, to the degree even Palp's regretted that trial due to how it affected the relationship of his two favored tools.

Really, Vader's biggest problem would be all the other Dark Side Adepts/Inquisitors/misc Dark Side users who served Sidious.

Also Nom Anor; the Vong would be very unhappy with their chief spy if the galaxy is united/subjigated under Vader's rule when the worldships arrive. And with his whole 'Force null' Vong thing, Anor could actually threaten Vader in ways others could not, if he gets close to him. Not sure Vader's armor/undersuit is up to amphistaff resistant standards.
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
Eh, except without the Force, Luke doesn't make the shot that takes out the DS, so yes Luke's specialness and survival/victory was directly tied to the Force, and who his parents are/were.
Except Vader could have also made that shot being just as strong in the force and far more trained in it's use. So it's not the force that made Luke the hero just like it wasn't the force that defined Luke as the hero in ROTJ. the Force is just an ability Luke has just like being a fighter pilot which itself, like all things in life, is based upon as much on the luck of genetics for eyesight/reflexes and thus matters as much about who your parents are as anything.

Luke was a 'Chosen One', and that is the problem; there are no 'Chosen Ones' in life and the sooner kids get that, the better.
In your opinion. One I don't think holds water since whether we're talking Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter the fans seem to primarily identifies *as* the Chosen One and thus is empowered by it. People see themselves in Harry's role or blowing up the Deathstar as Luke. You don't see a lot of people fantasying about being Ron or Wedge on the sidelines watching the hero.

Which is why showing how many other people had to do what they did, to even give Luke a chance of being where he was when he was, and showing it for the ugly realities we know are involved in insurgent warfare that have nothing to do with any magical BS, is so fucking important. The 'Chosen One' only got to do what they did because millions, billions of other fought and died to get to that point.
Except if not for Luke the Rebellion wouldn't have pulled off that shot and Yavin IV, and the Rebellion, would have blown up. The Empire would have it new superweapon and crushed any further resistance and ruled evily ever after. So, for Star Wars, for that day at least the "millions, billions" didn't matter. Just that "magical BS" upon which the entire fate of the galaxy pivoted.

You can say that's unrealistic. You can say it's non-egalitarian. But it's Star Wars. And if you find that so offensive just go find a franchise better suited to your tastes rather than trying to hammer Star Wars into something it was never meant to be.
 

Val the Moofia Boss

Well-known member
Thing is, it isn't like cynical and dark can't work in Star Wars. I mean, just look at Revenge of the Sith

RotS isn't cynical. The heroes are not powerless and at the mercy of far great powers or being forced into becoming morally compromised. They are in full control of their own destinys. RotS is a tragedy*. There is a moral point to the story. It's about a man who consciously, willingly made bad decisions and became complicit with and engaged in evil and how that brought ruin upon himself and the galaxy. RotS in no way insinuates that being virtuous is a futile endeavor. The story ends with the promise that the surviving heroes who have been driven underground will continue to persevere and they might one day reemerge.

*Too often people lump anything that has a downer ending into the "tragedy" genre. That is not what a tragedy is. The classic definition of a tragedy is a story about a noble character who suffers a downfall due to some sort of flaw. A movie about a child who gets cancer and dies is a sad story, but it is not a tragedy.

EDIT: clicked to the next page and realized that a lot of my points were already brought up.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
The Purgil thing was a bit much. A swarm of them overtaking a fleet by surprise and all kinda felt fine to me. But I just started to automatically cringe at the thought the Space Whales protected Lothal and are the new power in the galaxy that even cows the mighty Death Star.

I hope the Purgil never show up again, at the very least in the manner offered in this thread. I'd prefer them to be barely mentioned or appearing as required expressly by the story since that's probably necessary for Ezra's return or whatever.

And I say this somewhat digging the concept of the Bendu and what happened with Kanan. Some things are appropriate in small amounts. If Jedi start riding Space Whales into Battle against the Death Star something has gone wrong.
The thing about using Purrgils as WMDs is that Ezra's trick suggests an obvious countermeasure so it only ought to work once, until the enemy figures out what's going on.

There's a signal which attracts swarms of Purrgils to come and attack every ship near the transmission source. Maybe it's prey noises, or a territorial challenge or a mating call, doesn't really matter. To bypass it, build torpedoes with onboard broadcasting equipment and when the Purrgil swarm draws near, launch them away from your ships transmitting the signal on loops. The Purrgils break off their attack on you to follow and are blown to smithereens when the torpedoes detonate. Continue until the Purrgils wisen up or go extinct.

Bonus if they're edible or can be used for whale oil or something.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
See, this forgets Vader/Anakin still held a grudge against Tarkin for Ahsoka's trial, to the degree even Palp's regretted that trial due to how it affected the relationship of his two favored tools.
That is in no small part because it was an absolutely blatant show trial and Tarkin wasn't even remotely being professional about things. Letting Tarkin off the leash to that degree was very short-sighted of Palpatine, although absolutely consistent with his fundamentally evil and spiteful nature as a Sith Lord.

The way it dovetailed with the hypocrisy of the Jedi Council as a whole and Mace Windu in particular, now *that* part was things going exactly as the Sith hoped for in continuing the alienation of Anakin. Especially when the Council showed its bias even more after Anakin proved Ahsoka's innocence.
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
Case in point: Luke achieves victory over evil not by using the Force in a superior way, or by besting the Emperor in a duel... but by throwing his sabre aside. It's not the Force that defines him, but his pure character.

Of course, it would be SO MUCH MORE MATURE AND REALISTIC if he was actually a jaded killer who inhabits the same murky realm as the villains. In fact, why is Palpatine so two-dimensional. He really needs a back-story that explains how society made him evil. Because that's for serious people with serious opinions. Who wants childish hero stories with moral lessons? Bah! Humbug! ;)
Luke scores the *moral* victory by throwing his lightsaber aside and refusing to strike Vader down in anger, as both the Sith and the Jedi had been trying to manipulate him into doing. And yet at the same time, the movie *did* in fact show that the moral victory would have been rendered meaningless without Vader's heel-face turn, because Luke would have been a morally superior Force BBQ.
 
Luke scores the *moral* victory by throwing his lightsaber aside and refusing to strike Vader down in anger, as both the Sith and the Jedi had been trying to manipulate him into doing. And yet at the same time, the movie *did* in fact show that the moral victory would have been rendered meaningless without Vader's heel-face turn, because Luke would have been a morally superior Force BBQ.

Luke did what he did to make a correct point but he did something stupid as a result. He should have responded to palpatine the way Kyle katarn did to Jerec. Turned off his saber put it away and said no.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
I just rewatched that scene in Return of the Jedi, it looks like Luke Skywalker scored more than a moral victory when he refused to kill his Father. Apparently his Father actually betrayed Palpatine soon afterwards and pitched him down the infinite pit of (almost) death whilst Palps was frying Luke.

Apparently there was this subtle theme of Luke Skywalker wanting to redeem his Father and sensing the good in him that was foreshadowed earlier in the films, to the point that Obi Wan fatalistically stated the "Emperor has already won," when Luke said he couldn't kill his Father.

Anyone else pick up on this?
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I just rewatched that scene in Return of the Jedi, it looks like Luke Skywalker scored more than a moral victory when he refused to kill his Father. Apparently his Father actually betrayed Palpatine soon afterwards and pitched him down the infinite pit of (almost) death whilst Palps was frying Luke.

Apparently there was this subtle theme of Luke Skywalker wanting to redeem his Father and sensing the good in him that was foreshadowed earlier in the films, to the point that Obi Wan fatalistically stated the "Emperor has already won," when Luke said he couldn't kill his Father.

Anyone else pick up on this?
There's a lot to unpack in Luke's situation.

He believed he could convince Vader not to take him before the Emperor at all, that was his plan A. As soon as Vader proved less malleable than Luke optimistically believed, things were already off the rails and I suspect Luke was improvising from there.

Once on the Death Star his big hope was that he'd die along with Palpatine when the fleet blew up the Death Star. He discovered that Palpatine was already a step ahead, the Rebel Fleet was largely destroyed before his eyes and Palpatine smugly informed him Han and Leia were walking into a trap with an entire legion of the best troops the empire had, exceeded only by Teddy Bears in their combat prowess. Not having the perspective we do of seeing multiple scenes concurrently, Luke didn't have any reasonable expectation that things were otherwise, that there were enough fleet elements left to finish the job, or that Han would get the shield down.

Now Luke is practically defined by his Hope, but in this case I think he went for the Moral Victory because that's all he had left. He could barely beat down Vader, but only by channeling the Dark Side. He had no expectation of beating the Emperor and Vader at the same time. Even if he did, he'd have to somehow fight off the entire complement of the Death Star next. If he did that, all his friends were probably dead and the rebellion was crushed, and he'd have to pilot a stolen TIE fighter or shuttle past all those Star Destroyers and hope he'd somehow escape on his own.

Dying on his feet with his morals intact and denying the Emperor to the last was honestly the best outcome he could expect at that point, so he took it. This parallels his choice to let himself fall to his death in Empire Strikes Back, rather than be captured by Vader, Luke is willing to die for what he believes in and sometimes your only options are to be captured, or drop to your death.

For Vader, Luke's good nature, unwillingness to give up, and undying hope and belief in his father ultimately saved him. Luke would have been barbecue if Vader hadn't turned, but if Luke wasn't the kind of person who would throw his lightsaber away and take becoming barbecue over turning to the Dark Side, Vader wouldn't have still been alive (or moved) to save him anyway.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I just rewatched that scene in Return of the Jedi, it looks like Luke Skywalker scored more than a moral victory when he refused to kill his Father. Apparently his Father actually betrayed Palpatine soon afterwards and pitched him down the infinite pit of (almost) death whilst Palps was frying Luke.

Apparently there was this subtle theme of Luke Skywalker wanting to redeem his Father and sensing the good in him that was foreshadowed earlier in the films, to the point that Obi Wan fatalistically stated the "Emperor has already won," when Luke said he couldn't kill his Father.

Anyone else pick up on this?
Oh yes. It was specifically Luke being willing to DIE in order to try and save his father and prevent his own fall that brought Anakin back to the light.
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Top 10 anime plot twists:

battlefront-darth-vader-memes.jpg
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
Palpatine smugly informed him Han and Leia were walking into a trap with an entire legion of the best troops the empire had, exceeded only by Teddy Bears in their combat prowess.
Palpatine: Which is why I chose the forest moon of Endor for this confrontation, the native home to Wookiee's...what do you mean I had the report upside down. What's the hell is an Ewok? Teddy What?! xD
 

Zyobot

Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Palpatine: Which is why I chose the forest moon of Endor for this confrontation, the native home to Wookiee's...what do you mean I had the report upside down. What's the hell is an Ewok? Teddy What?! xD

Yeah, certainly no fan of the Sequels, but it amuses me when viewers complain about Finn and his comrades riding horses as they charge headlong into turret fire during the Battle of Exegol — all while not saying a peep about the Emperor’s “best troops” being beaten back by fury, knee-high primitives on a forest moon they literally set up the Death Star II’s shield generator on.

Granted, it’s Star Wars, which has many insensible conceits that make more for fun storytelling than exhaustively thought-out realism. Still, if a fighting force like the US Military could’ve spotted the Ewok tribes and crushed them with contemptuous ease, then surely, a space-age superpower that commanded a galaxy’s worth of resources should’ve been able to do so while barely lifting a finger. Well, Stormtrooper incompetence notwithstanding, anyway. 😉
 

DarthOne

☦️
Yeah, certainly no fan of the Sequels, but it amuses me when viewers complain about Finn and his comrades riding horses as they charge headlong into turret fire during the Battle of Exegol — all while not saying a peep about the Emperor’s “best troops” being beaten back by fury, knee-high primitives on a forest moon they literally set up the Death Star II’s shield generator on.

Granted, it’s Star Wars, which has many insensible conceits that make more for fun storytelling than exhaustively thought-out realism. Still, if a fighting force like the US Military could’ve spotted the Ewok tribes and crushed them with contemptuous ease, then surely, a space-age superpower that commanded a galaxy’s worth of resources should’ve been able to do so while barely lifting a finger. Well, Stormtrooper incompetence notwithstanding, anyway. 😉
Probably because the Ewok thing has been beaten to dust already.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
I think the fundamental idea of the Ewoks, a primitive tribe getting the drop on a more advanced force and using their knowledge of terrain to defeat them, is not crucially flawed.

But it would have worked far better if they’d gone with the initial draft and used Wookies.

It was apparently not financially feasible. I don't know what the exact issue was. But as far as plot is concerned, you're certainly right. I've suggested the same thing, as have others before us. my suggestions (somewhat edited since I first posted them a few years ago):


— The film opens, not with the droids, but with Leia's attempt to save Han. This fails, as in the actual film.

— We then cut to Luke on Dagobah, completing his own light-sabre. This indicates he's been there for a while, training, with Yoda teaching him how to be a Jedi. Vader calls out to him through the Force, urging Luke to join the Dark Side, much as in one of the actual deleted scenes for RotJ. Luke resists, which proves that he has the mental power required of a Jedi.

— Luke is preparing, so that he'll be ready to rescue Han from Jabba's palace (unlike his half-cocked rescue attempt in ESB; we see he has learned from his mistake).

— Yoda dies. It's made explicit that Yoda feels that he is being called to become one with the Force, and that it is now time for a new generation to assume its place of responsibility in the galaxy. He tells Luke that he (Yoda) has nothing left to teach him (rather than Luke "needing no more teaching"), and implies that the wise never stop learning. Now it is Yoda's own time to learn a greater mystery: he passes peacefuly into the Force. Luke, his training as a Jedi Knight complete, departs from Dagobah.

— The film then shows us the Imperials preparing for a committee of the Grand Moffs with Vader and the Emperor. The Rebels have become more bold since the destruction of the Death Star, and the previous attempt to definitively root them out (such as on Hoth) have failed. It's time to set in motion a campaign to wipe the Rebellion away completely. The Emperor is willing to allocate all means necessary to this, and will hear the suggestions of the Grand Moffs at a secret conference to be held on a space station orbiting the forest moon of the gas giant Endor. (This is an out-of-the-way location, and ideal for such a secret meeting.)

— No second Death Star is at any point involved. Imagine the space station more like a super-sized version of a Golan weapons platform.

— We cut to Tatooine. The droids arrive, and are "given" to Jabba by Luke, via hologram. (Threepio, upon seeing Leia enslaved by Jabba, can exclaim something about how he "just knew they should have waited for Master Luke!" or something to that effect.) We see that Lando has sneakily infiltrated the ranks of Jabba's guards already. Then the Twi'lek dancer tries to kill Jabba, and is thrown in the Rancor pit.

— Vader arrives on the space station and threatens Moff Jerjerrod. Everything has to be ready in time.

— Luke arrives at Jabba's palace. I'd tighten up the whole Palace sequence a bit, so that it drags on a little less. In particular, Jabba's 'court' and all of the bizarre figures there can easily be toned down just a bit. Make it less 'The Muppets', and slightly more serious and threatening. No silly musical numbers!

— Han should get his sight back in time to fight Boba Fett on the skiff, which ends with Boba Fett getting shot and falling into the Sarlacc pit. (But this could and should be a really cool gunfight.)

— After the rescue of Han, our heroes go directly to rendez-vous with the Rebel fleet, where Mon Mothma tells them about the Imperial conference. Thanks to many brave Bothans who gave their lives to get this information to the Rebels, they now have a chance to strike a critical blow at the Empire: killing their entire high command in one fell swoop. It's a unique chance, and all the more vital because if the Imperials instead get the time to prepare a greater anti-rebel campaign, the Rebel Alliance will almost certainly be destroyed.

— Arriving on the forest moon, must destroy the shield generator protecting the space station where the Imperial leaders are gathered. They discover the moon is used as a slave labour camp, where the Imperials are using Wookiee slaves to mine valuable resources. (They're slavers and they're strip-mining a nature preserve! Pure evil!)

— Chewie can play a key part in helping the heroes infiltrate the Imperial camp. Since Han once risked his life to save Chewie, they can convince the Wookiee slaves that the Rebels truly want to help them. A slave reolt ensues, and lots of Imperial guards get their arms ripped off.

— Thing go largely the same, with Luke going to confront his father after telling Leia the truth. Palpatine gloats to him that the whole conference isn't a meeting to decide on a strategy against the Rebels: it is the strategy, because it's a trap.

— Through a hard-fought battle, the heroes down on the surface get to the shield generator... only to discover an additional cohort of crack troops waiting for them. A desperate battle follows.

— The Rebels fleet arrives as planned, only to find the station's shields still active. The station is also far better-armed than expected. (Palpatine gloats that while it's no Death Star, it has cannons that can blow up capital ships). The Rebel strategy was actually to bring along Interdictors to stop more Imperial ships from arriving, but Palpatine has the Interdictors blown up first.

— Immediately, an Imperial war-fleet jumps out of hyperspace to ambush the Rebels. A massive space battle ensues.

— This plays out pretty much as in the actual film, with Han, Leia, the Rebel ground forces and the Wookiees eventually destroying the shield generator. In space, a few Rebel pilots in smaller ships (the Falcon, piloted by Lando, and a group of fighters led by Wedge) can get past the large Imperial ships and fly into the bowels of the space station. (I imagine it still-unfinished, much like the DS-II.)

— The throne room duel plays out exactly the same, with Luke then taking his father's body back to the surface (after getting off the station just in time). The Empire's high command is utterly vanquished, leaving our heroes hopeful for the future. I'd otherwise keep the ending just as it is (except with Wookiees instead of Ewoks, and with no 'special edition' shots of celebrations on other planets).
 
Last edited:

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Yeah, certainly no fan of the Sequels, but it amuses me when viewers complain about Finn and his comrades riding horses as they charge headlong into turret fire during the Battle of Exegol — all while not saying a peep about the Emperor’s “best troops” being beaten back by fury, knee-high primitives on a forest moon they literally set up the Death Star II’s shield generator on.

Huh... The cavalry charge on the ship hull was one of the few things I recall not bothering me about the film really. I think I was in theater, watching the movie like a dutifully mildly interested zombie and the Imperials gibbering about boarding parties when one of them was like jam the repulsorlifts (which I didn't think was a thing) and then the mildly pleasing reveal of a cavalry charge properly foreshadowed from earlier.

There's plenty to complain about in the movie and even in that very scene (and the scenes setup to said scene) but the cavalry charge in and of itself seemed to be one of the better aspects of the film to me.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top