Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I know right? It's unfathomable to me that they screwed up this badly and managed to make such a simple concept so hideously overpriced for so little productivity. They spent 1.2 billion dollars on the hotel, you could almost build an actual space station for that*.

Taking a look at actual cruise ships, it looks like the most expensive one in the world as of 2020 was 450 million... though a 600 million one was on the way. From the descriptions including things like marble floors and original Picassos on the walls, I have little doubt they could create Star Wars decor without increasing the price. So Disney could have two cruise ships in operation and have enough left over for a couple of tourism submarines, and some underwater decor to look like Theed or some such for the submarines to drive kids past for the cost of this hotel.

Except the cruise ships would handle 750 passengers each, 1,500 total, while the Galactic Starcruiser Hotel had 100 rooms total.

It's hard for me not to conclude somebody was on the take in this project embezzling funds, I just can't wrap my head around how they could have spent so much for so little.


*Hyperbole alert. Mir was about four billion.

$11,000/ night. So the most expensive cruise EVER with no expenses spared is a little less than double Disney's cheapskate LARP fest.

What the heck Disney???

 

[Bear Ribs]

$11,000/ night. So the most expensive cruise EVER with no expenses spared is a little less than double Disney's cheapskate LARP fest.

What the heck Disney???

Eleven thousand for the 4400+ square foot penthouse suites larger than most people's houses. For the more reasonably-sized 4-600 square foot cabins, which looks to me to be in the same size range as the biggest room at the Starcruiser, it looks like you can easily find tickets for around 10K for 8 days.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Eleven thousand for the 4400+ square foot penthouse suites larger than most people's houses. For the more reasonably-sized 4-600 square foot cabins, which looks to me to be in the same size range as the biggest room at the Starcruiser, it looks like you can easily find tickets for around 10K for 8 days.

...

Are we sure there was not money laundering involved in the galactic starcruiser?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

...

Are we sure there was not money laundering involved in the galactic starcruiser?

Nope!

 

[Blasterbot]

...

Are we sure there was not money laundering involved in the galactic starcruiser?

admittedly they had to custom make just about everything. from the furniture to the menu to the windows. they went crazy on making everything custom. they just tied it to a property that they torpedoed and are charging way more for it than anyone would ever pay for it.

 

[Bear Ribs]

So getting away from the hotel, I ran into an interesting fan theory recently.

P:adme Amidala is so suicidally brave and so utterly bereft of survival instincts in the Clone Wars because, for her, there have never been any consequences for her actions. The Force had predetermined she was going to bear the Chosen One's children so it made sure she got away unharmed every time and she never learned that people could actually be dangerous.

Until she gave birth, at which point the Force withdrew its protection and she died one minute later, from a suicidally stupid action that she'd always been protected from.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

So getting away from the hotel, I ran into an interesting fan theory recently.

P:adme Amidala is so suicidally brave and so utterly bereft of survival instincts in the Clone Wars because, for her, there have never been any consequences for her actions. The Force had predetermined she was going to bear the Chosen One's children so it made sure she got away unharmed every time and she never learned that people could actually be dangerous.

Until she gave birth, at which point the Force withdrew its protection and she died one minute later, from a suicidally stupid action that she'd always been protected from.

Well if that's true was it possible that she was already dead from one of her "near fatal" encounters and was always going to die once she gave birth?

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

This gives me the morbid and disturbing idea of Vitiate's spirit possessing either of the twins in-vitro, and at the moment of Padme's death, every Force-sensitive in the galaxy hears the sound of cruel, mocking laughter, followed by "I have awakened, and I bring with me DEATH!"

The entire plot gets sidelined as both Vader and Sidious on one side, and Yoda and Obi-Wan on the other desperately attempt to find the source of such a massive disturbance in the Force. Well, Obi-Wan would have known...unless Vitiate dominated his mind and erased the memories of such, of course. Meanwhile, on either Tatooine or Alderaan, a child with cold, uncaring eyes grows up, their timeless mind already plotting to reclaim the Eternal Throne*, and rule once more as the Immortal Emperor.

In all honesty, I would personally prefer if Leia became the next Immortal Emperor. There's something...enticing, about imagining Carrie Fisher facing down Ian McDiarmid, and matching him word for word in villainous one-liners. Or for that matter, Yoda.

*In the metonymic sense, that is, of rulership over the known galaxy.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

This gives me the morbid and disturbing idea of Vitiate's spirit possessing either of the twins in-vitro, and at the moment of Padme's death, every Force-sensitive in the galaxy hears the sound of cruel, mocking laughter, followed by "I have awakened, and I bring with me DEATH!"

The entire plot gets sidelined as both Vader and Sidious on one side, and Yoda and Obi-Wan on the other desperately attempt to find the source of such a massive disturbance in the Force. Well, Obi-Wan would have known...unless Vitiate dominated his mind and erased the memories of such, of course. Meanwhile, on either Tatooine or Alderaan, a child with cold, uncaring eyes grows up, their timeless mind already plotting to reclaim the Eternal Throne*, and rule once more as the Immortal Emperor.

In all honesty, I would personally prefer if Leia became the next Immortal Emperor. There's something...enticing, about imagining Carrie Fisher facing down Ian McDiarmid, and matching him word for word in villainous one-liners. Or for that matter, Yoda.

*In the metonymic sense, that is, of rulership over the known galaxy.

eh I always imagined a Sith Leia being a light Sith Sorcerous (Like Imperious in TOR) and I'm not sure how well that'd work. If even the force itself could not fully dominate the chosen one and his seed I can't help but think vitiate would be lucky not to lose himself to trying to dominate Leia. And if there is even a bit of Darkside in Leia you know Vader is going to be attracted like a moth to a flame.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

eh I always imagined a Sith Leia being a light Sith Sorcerous (Like Imperious in TOR) and I'm not sure how well that'd work. If even the force itself could fully dominate the chosen one and his seed I can't help but think vitiate would be lucky not to lose himself to trying to dominate Leia. And if there is even a bit of Darkside in Leia you know Vader is going to be attracted like a moth to a flame.

Hence why she would have to be possessed in-vitro, before she develops her own sense of self. And Vitiate-Leia could easily hide her presence while growing up. The first thing any proper Force-sensitive ever learns is to control and mask their power, after all.

But yeah, once Vitiate-Leia decides the time has come to stop playing around and reveal herself, the Sith and Jedi are all going to be homing in on her. Unfortunately, I also see Vader sliding back into old habits, basically just Anakin impulsively charging in screaming his head off and waving a burning stick of plasma around at whatever this entity is that stole his daughter's body (and likely killed Padme in the process). Between his crippled body, obsolete cybernetics, and lack of mental clarity, Chosen One be damned, he's likely to get himself killed.

Yoda and Sidious, though, are likely to be very cautious, especially if Sidious has any holocrons dating back to the Old Sith Empire (which he likely has). Remember that unlike Jedi Holocrons, the gatekeepers of Sith Holocrons are actual soul fragments of their makers, meaning it's entirely possible that some of those holocrons would recognize who this entity was, and warn Sidious of how dangerous Vitiate is.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

But yeah, once Vitiate-Leia decides the time has come to stop playing around and reveal herself, the Sith and Jedi are all going to be homing in on her. Unfortunately, I also see Vader sliding back into old habits, basically just Anakin impulsively charging in screaming his head off and waving a burning stick of plasma around at whatever this entity is that stole his daughter's body (and likely killed Padme in the process). Between his crippled body, obsolete cybernetics, and lack of mental clarity, Chosen One be damned, he's likely to get himself killed.

hmmm I don't know about that Part of Anakin's weakness stemmed from the fact he became depressed after becoming Vader he really had nothing left to fight for till he met Luke so any attempts at beating the emperor were...half-baked. You put him in a scenario to really pee him off like say a demonic entity desecrating his daughter's corpse and using it like a suit. vitiate may find that he/she bit a little bit more off than he/she can chew. had he not fallen into despair and apathy I think he could be The Kratos of Star Wars.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

hmmm I don't know about that Part of Anakin's weakness stemmed from the fact he became depressed after becoming Vader he really had nothing left to fight for till he met Luke so any attempts at beating the emperor were...half-baked. You put him in a scenario to really pee him off like say a demonic entity desecrating his daughter's corpse and using it like a suit. vitiate may find that he/she bit a little bit more off than he/she can chew. had he not fallen into despair and apathy I think he could be The Kratos of Star Wars.

I don't disagree, it's just that I don't think potential or raw power is going to be enough. I mean, he was all but overpowering Obi-Wan on Mustafar, but that didn't stop Obi-Wan from cutting him up and roasting him like a fish. Anakin/Vader also needs to know how to properly use his power/potential. And the worst part is that he knows, it's just that he can't control himself.

That's always been Anakin's greatest problem: he has no or at least a very limited sense of self-control. Ironically, his post-Padme depression did Vader a favor in that the resulting apathy enhanced his self-control, but if his blood ever gets up...

EDIT: While I agree that Vader's cybernetics didn't actually weaken him in the Force, they also have the problem of not being sufficiently-shielded/hardened. A deliberate decision on Sidious' part, to make Vader even more vulnerable than normal to Force Lightning. And again, made worse by the fact that Sidious implicitly allowed and even expected Vader to upgrade the suit, and explicitly so in canon, except he never did.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I don't disagree, it's just that I don't think potential or raw power is going to be enough. I mean, he was all but overpowering Obi-Wan on Mustafar, but that didn't stop Obi-Wan from cutting him up and roasting him like a fish. Anakin/Vader also needs to know how to properly use his power/potential. And the worst part is that he knows, it's just that he can't control himself.

That's always been Anakin's greatest problem: he has no or at least a very limited sense of self-control. Ironically, his post-Padme depression did Vader a favor in that the resulting apathy enhanced his self-control, but if his blood ever gets up...

EDIT: While I agree that Vader's cybernetics didn't actually weaken him in the Force, they also have the problem of not being sufficiently-shielded/hardened. A deliberate decision on Sidious' part, to make Vader even more vulnerable than normal to Force Lightning. And again, made worse by the fact that Sidious implicitly allowed and even expected Vader to upgrade the suit, and explicitly so in canon, except he never did.

I don't know man if we are talking years before Lady Vitiate reveals herself, I just can't help but think a honed + peed off fully empowered by rage Vader equals top tier force fighter. I'm kind of the opinion that the only reason why Vader succumbed to his injuries caused by Palpatine was because at that point he was ready to die. I'm a Anakin/Vader stan I will admit.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

I don't know man if we are talking years before Lady Vitiate reveals herself, I just can't help but think a honed + peed off fully empowered by rage Vader equals top tier force fighter. I'm kind of the opinion that the only reason why Vader succumbed to his injuries caused by Palpatine was because at that point he was ready to die. I'm a Anakin/Vader stan I will admit.

Oh, yes. If Vader learns to properly control himself, along with every bit of lore he's entitled to as Sidious' apprentice, then he'll be a complete monster. Even Sidious admits this, outright so in movie form.

"You will not stop me! Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!"

Coming from Darth Sidious, that's very high praise. In fact, at that moment, he was practically full Banite, in the sense that he tied his whole legacy to Vader, that Yoda is not powerful enough to kill him, and only Vader will be.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Oh, yes. If Vader learns to properly control himself, along with every bit of lore he's entitled to as Sidious' apprentice, then he'll be a complete monster. Even Sidious admits this, outright so in movie form.

"You will not stop me! Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!"

Coming from Darth Sidious, that's very high praise. In fact, at that moment, he was practically full Banite, in the sense that he tied his whole legacy to Vader, that Yoda is not powerful enough to kill him, and only Vader will be.

To be fair Vitiate was weird. he more often than not was in complete denial of whether someone was equal or stronger than him but In those super rare moments where he did acknowledge someone's power he did respect it Even if Lady Vitiate cannot dominate Vader and she does acknowledge that, I can see her playing the daughter card and essentially giving him the same kind of offer that Vader would give Luke in the prime timeline "join me and we can rule the galaxy as father and daughter... we can be a real family... don't you want that?" And yeah I think Vader would take that deal in a heartbeat especially if she offered to let Vader keep Sidious as a trophy to toucher for all eternity.

So yeah In no scenario do I see Lady vitiate outright dying at the hands of Vader unless by some odd miracle Ashoka can turn Anakin back to the light.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

To be fair Vitiate was weird. he more often than not was in complete denial of whether someone was equal or stronger than him but In those super rare moments where he did acknowledge someone's power he did respect it.

To be just as fair, he was the most powerful Force-sensitive of his age. At age ten, he cut his father off from the Force, killed him, and then imprisoned his soul, all without any formal training. Then at age 13, he presented himself to Marka Ragnos, who was impressed enough to recognize Tenebrae as Lord of Medriass (Nathema) and elevated him as Darth Vitiate. And this was before the Ritual of Nathema. After that...the meta explicitly describes him as an entity in the Force...one could even say he was a similar existence to the Ones, i.e. the Celestials.

Even 3000 years after that age, Darth Plagueis would wax thoughtfully on Darth Vitiate as the one Sith who came closest to transcendence, if not outright achieved it. Remember that Darth Vitiate's defining trait was apathy. It's entirely possible that even after his apparent defeat, he could still be there, just...content, watching everything.

This whole scenario is premised on that, and the Lord of Many Faces deciding it's time for him to stop being an impartial observer, and an active participant once again. He just needs a new body first, preferably a Force-sensitive, and a powerful one at that, and this time, he would not repeat the mistake with the Outlander.

Besides, it might be fun to start over as a child once again.

Even if Lady Vitiate cannot dominate Vader and she does acknowledge that, I can see her playing the daughter card and essentially giving him the same kind of offer that Vader would give Luke in the prime timeline "join me and we can rule the galaxy as father and daughter... we can be a real family... don't you want that?" And yeah I think Vader would take that deal in a heartbeat especially if she offered to let Vader keep Sidious as a trophy to torcher for all eternity.

Besides, it might even teach him/her/it how to properly be a good parent, observing Vader's attempts at being one, in addition to growing up with the Organas, plus their own memories of Senya and their children. In all honesty, Darth Vitiate's most interesting trait as a villain is that he's already won: he achieved the generic villain goal of achieving immortality by mass sacrifice. That, and he's literally the only villain I know off that manages to ask himself, then what?

And eventually, he found an answer: let's try to be everything. After all, we have all of eternity to spend.

So yeah In no scenario do I see Lady vitiate outright dying at the hands of Vader unless bu some odd miracle Ashoka can turn Anakin back to the light.

Even then, assuming Anakin kills Vitiate-Leia, it wouldn't really hurt the ancient entity, as its spirit would just depart while mocking Anakin that once again, he's failed to save someone he loved, if not been the one to kill her.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Besides, it might even teach him/her/it how to properly be a good parent, observing Vader's attempts at being one, in addition to growing up with the Organas, plus their own memories of Senya and their children. In all honesty, Darth Vitiate's most interesting trait as a villain is that he's already won: he achieved the generic villain goal of achieving immortality by mass sacrifice. That, and he's literally the only villain I know off that manages to ask himself, then what?

And eventually, he found an answer: let's try to be everything. After all, we have all of eternity to spend.

Okay now I'm just getting this hilarious idea of Vitiate deciding to appease Vader and sort of play along just because he/she really doesn't have anything better to do at this point and is bored... only to find that she starts to become the mask out of legit enjoyment.

That does bring up an interesting idea... vitiate exploring emotions on the lighter end of the spectrum out of boredom and curiosity.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Going to be honest, as much as Lucasfilm say that Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time...he's a little bitch compared to Vitiate.

Sidious's end goal was to become the Dark God King of the universe.

Vitiate very nearly became a galaxy eating lovecraftian horror that transcended eternity itself.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Going to be honest, as much as Lucasfilm say that Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time...he's a little bitch compared to Vitiate.

Sidious's end goal was to become the Dark God King of the universe.

Vitiate very nearly became a galaxy eating lovecraftian horror that transcended eternity itself.

Yeah, like I said, Darth Vitiate not only succeeded in becoming an immortal god-emperor, but succeeded long enough that he began to ask, "now what do I do?"

EDIT: I personally think Darth Sidious had the most 'native' power in the Force out of any Sith Lord, where other Sith had to use rituals, magic, and alchemy to make themselves stronger. I mean, going by feats, he doesn't really come close to Naga Sadow or Exar Kun, who could blow up stars, even if they had to use alchemically-crafted crystals to channel the power to do so.

Likewise for Darth Vitiate, with the original Ritual of Nathema requiring 8000 mind-broken Sith Lords under his direct control to begin the ritual, plus the Iokanthi superweapon Zildrog to manage the energy flow. It was only later that he further refined the ritual that all he needed was an initial mass sacrifice or its equivalent to prime the ritual, but he could trigger and manage it on his own.

But again, feats. Darth Sidious might have the more 'native' power than Darth Vitiate, but while he certainly started strong, he went out like a chump, considering his empire crumbled in less than fifty years before the remnants moved on from his legacy. In contrast, Darth Vitiate's empire lasted for a thousand years, and even then, despite being excommunicated, later generations of Sith continue to look back on his legacy with awed if not terrified respect.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Going back to padme I's it wrong to say that in hindsight that Padme was absolutely horrible for Anakin and A. He deserved so much better and B. Just about any other woman who have been much better for Anakin?