Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
There's a reason people initially shrugged their shoulders when Disney dumped the EU. We could just never have imagined how the Mouse would manage to outdo the Travissty.
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
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Blasterbot
Well-known member
Hey that isn't fair. they also made sure to put in THE MESSAGE. imagine if they didn't take into account that it was current year back when they made these movies. Without a strong powerful female role model like Rei Palpatine little girls would have no rolemodels in the modern era.
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KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
A lot of fans did originally like the Mando wank and a lot of the mando lore she made many loved...the problem was that Mando wank started coming at the cost of wringing characters that people did like and going as far as to justify the Mandalorians starting the Mandalorian wars. It'd be like if KK and JJ actually did legitimately make Rey a likable character with a pretty cool backstory but then to constantly show how awesome Rey was they wrote The original trio as OOC jerks and idiots....
Wait a sec...
Holy crap was Traviss a prototype of Kathleen Kennedy?!?
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Yeah, it's like @Lord Sovereign said: there's a reason quite a lot of fans were fairly okay with the EU (or at least, a lot of the post-RotJ EU) being overwritten. The Unifying Force was written to be, essentially, the last story of the saga-- and it was a mistake to keep going after that.
Yes, Traviss is the platonic form of which KK is a distorted replica.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
I'm genuinely not sure it really would have been any worse. Traviss would probably have pushed for Finn to be much more badass and have a larger role.
Then again I'm pretty sure the reason Finn was turned into a clown and then sidelined was Chinese anti-black racism and a desire to please the Chinese audience more than the American one, so that consideration may have overridden Traviss' desires anyway.
Assuming, though, that a single person's vision governed the entire sequel trilogy, even if that vision were ass it would probably beat out the existing ST because that was both ass and every single movie appeared to be written intentionally to give the finger to the movie before it.
I still cannot get over how poorly handled the sequel trilogy was. Like... I could have done a better job managing it as a Producer than Disney did and I have jack shit experience with anything movie production related. How do I know this? Because I would have had step 1 be to chart out the full arc of the next trilogy from start to finish and then held production to that overall storyarc...
Which is really all it would have taken to improve the Sequel Trilogy. Have a cohesive long form story and stick to it! You'd think Disney would have figured that out with how Marvel did things but...
Like seriously, why did they make such a haphazard trilogy? What possessed them to fail to do the one thing that everyone who writes stories knew needed to be done?
Which is really all it would have taken to improve the Sequel Trilogy. Have a cohesive long form story and stick to it! You'd think Disney would have figured that out with how Marvel did things but...
Like seriously, why did they make such a haphazard trilogy? What possessed them to fail to do the one thing that everyone who writes stories knew needed to be done?
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
They failed because they didn't want to continue the saga. Not really. Their agenda was never that. What they wanted to do was to push the left-wing agenda and turn Star Wars into a propaganda machine for their ideology. They never cared about Star Wars.
The MCU, for all its faults, succeeded because the people behind it genuinely loved the setting/s. Kevin Feige even unashamedly describes himself as a Marvel fanboy. While they too have to pander to Hollywood's left-wing ideology, because they genuinely love the setting/s, they can slip it in subtly or semi-subtly without sacrificing the story and characters.
TLDR, Disney Star Wars is the result of putting Leni Riefenstahl-wannabes in charge. MCU is what happens when fans get control.
Is the MCU perfect? Of course not. Does it respect the source materials and the fandom? Hell, yes. And that's more than you can say about Disney Star Wars.
Bigking321
Well-known member
Not... really?
When they finished the 3 phase plan with endgame and Disney had to come up with there own new stuff it kinda fell completely apart. Phase 4 was trash and 5 isn't looking any better.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
You're not entirely wrong, but I think it's because Infinity War and Endgame set such a high fucking bar that succeeding movies struggle to even come close. In short, the MCU became a victim of its own success.
I can hardly say the same for Disney Star Wars.
Bigking321
Well-known member
Nah. No way.
They're just really bad movies. Lots of character assassinations, plot holes, destroying the world building, and overall horrifically bad writing.
They are just bad. No need to compare them to other movies and say they only seem bad because the other movies are just so incredible.
But, yes. Disney star wars has been near universally awful.
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The last two Avengers films did set a high bar... but the films following them degraded in quality in pretty much every aspect except for the CGI, but like icing on a cake, it's all empty calories.
The MCU went and peaked with the last two Avengers films... and then swan-dived in a decline so badly that it was as though thirteen/fourteen year old Wattpad writers took over.
The magic of that first shot of the Avengers fighting together in New York is gone. The magic of them all coming together to defeat Thanos and save reality is gone.
Now you have a twerking She Hulk with Bruce made out to be an incompetent buffoon, hilariously racist villains and caricatures in Wakanda Forever (the main villain? Yeah, he's an analogue for illegal Mexican migrants, basically).
It's done. People are burned out, the studio is getting desperate and more and more politicised, and it's showing.
The MCU started strong, had its high notes, and now it's going out with a pathetic whimper.
Edit: but this is the Star Wars thread, not the MCU one.
Disney Wars... on the whole? Bar some good pieces of media, it's been a massive failure, especially the Sequels.
The Vader Comics? Great. Clone Wars? Amazing. Rebels? Eh, so-so. Andor? A standout cracker. Rogue One? Vader is king. 'nuff said. Kenobi? Eh, it has its moments, but Hayden and Ewan coming back nailed it.
But in the grand scheme of things, they're supposed to be side dishes to the main events.
And those main events were fucking awful, haphazardly created, and had zero long-term planning behind them. Hell, they pulled Palpatine out of their arses at the last minute because "oh shit, Snoke is dead, so we need a new Big Bad".
The MCU went and peaked with the last two Avengers films... and then swan-dived in a decline so badly that it was as though thirteen/fourteen year old Wattpad writers took over.
The magic of that first shot of the Avengers fighting together in New York is gone. The magic of them all coming together to defeat Thanos and save reality is gone.
Now you have a twerking She Hulk with Bruce made out to be an incompetent buffoon, hilariously racist villains and caricatures in Wakanda Forever (the main villain? Yeah, he's an analogue for illegal Mexican migrants, basically).
It's done. People are burned out, the studio is getting desperate and more and more politicised, and it's showing.
The MCU started strong, had its high notes, and now it's going out with a pathetic whimper.
Edit: but this is the Star Wars thread, not the MCU one.
Disney Wars... on the whole? Bar some good pieces of media, it's been a massive failure, especially the Sequels.
The Vader Comics? Great. Clone Wars? Amazing. Rebels? Eh, so-so. Andor? A standout cracker. Rogue One? Vader is king. 'nuff said. Kenobi? Eh, it has its moments, but Hayden and Ewan coming back nailed it.
But in the grand scheme of things, they're supposed to be side dishes to the main events.
And those main events were fucking awful, haphazardly created, and had zero long-term planning behind them. Hell, they pulled Palpatine out of their arses at the last minute because "oh shit, Snoke is dead, so we need a new Big Bad".
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Bigking321
Well-known member
Hmm...
Rogue one was... mediocre but not terrible.
Andor was surprisingly good. Probably the best thing they've done.
The first couple of episodes of Mandalorian were entertaining.
Everything else was utter garbage.
It's like they COMPLETELY gave up on writing. Plot holes everywhere. Everyone holding the idiot ball all the time. Absolutely destroyed the world building. Character assassinations all over the place.
Disney is awful.
Rogue one was... mediocre but not terrible.
Andor was surprisingly good. Probably the best thing they've done.
The first couple of episodes of Mandalorian were entertaining.
Everything else was utter garbage.
It's like they COMPLETELY gave up on writing. Plot holes everywhere. Everyone holding the idiot ball all the time. Absolutely destroyed the world building. Character assassinations all over the place.
Disney is awful.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Disney thought Star Wars was a golden goose they didn't even need to try with. The franchise was simply too big to fail as far as they thought.
So they gave the goose over to the wrong people...
So they gave the goose over to the wrong people...
Typhonis
Well-known member
Or said people promised them the Moon...only they don't know shit from a hole in the ground and their version of a moon shot is a kidde rocket outside of a grocery store.
I would argue that fans loved the Mando lore but not so much the Mando wank.
StormEagle
Well-known member
A thought occurred to me, as I lay in bed staring at the ceiling and contemplating life when I should be sleeping.
So General Hux right. Like many things, actually alright in the first movie, used as a joke in the second, and actually idiotic in the third.
So there was a running plot in Rise of the Skywalker that there was a spy in the First Order feeding information to our idiotic “heroes”.
Turns out it was…the head general for said organization.
And a scenario flashed through my brain as soon as I learned that.
The allies are storming, I dunno, Munich. They start get to wherever Gorring is. They kick down the door, and he stands up and says:
“Wait! It was me! I was the spy! I was the spy all along! It was me Austin!”
…Well, maybe not that last part. Stupid? Yes. Idiotic? Absolutely.
It still made me chuckle a little.
That was all, go back to discussing actually maybe relevant stuffs
So General Hux right. Like many things, actually alright in the first movie, used as a joke in the second, and actually idiotic in the third.
So there was a running plot in Rise of the Skywalker that there was a spy in the First Order feeding information to our idiotic “heroes”.
Turns out it was…the head general for said organization.
And a scenario flashed through my brain as soon as I learned that.
The allies are storming, I dunno, Munich. They start get to wherever Gorring is. They kick down the door, and he stands up and says:
“Wait! It was me! I was the spy! I was the spy all along! It was me Austin!”
…Well, maybe not that last part. Stupid? Yes. Idiotic? Absolutely.
It still made me chuckle a little.
That was all, go back to discussing actually maybe relevant stuffs
They actually did this in Doctor Who's first Pete's World cybermen arc -- the spy that was feeding the resistance all this intelligence? It turned out to be Pete Tyler, who was like a subordinate indirectly under Lumic (the creator of "Human.2") himself.