Movies Star Wars - Rise of Skywalker - Spoiler Discussion Zone

While I generally hated it, there are two things that I did find amusing:

1. Palpatine has not yet learned that the "now watch as your friends lose a space battle" trick does not work.
2. Palpatine has also not learned that when you shoot lightning at a jedi and they block it with a lightsaber, that's your cue to stop shooting lighting at them.
 
Other complaints/comments, in no specific order:

1. Force healing, like the Hold Maneuver, is such a horrible thing to introduce to the franchise. That would have save Qui-gon. That would have saved Anakin like 3 or 4 times, including the hole "it's too late for me" final scene with him.

2. Why is the final order's fleet (sigh) all ISD I's? Did they just have the 3D model from Rogue one and didn't want to make it the ISD II or something unique?

3. Why didn't the resistance just strafe the navigation tower from the air? Is it just too tough to shoot a few torpedoes at, and if so, why don't they build everything else just as strong?

4. Since when can you just strap a death star-grade cannon onto a Star Destroyer and fire away? Why even bother with a Death Star, having an entire fleet of planet killers sounds way more in line with the Tarkin Doctrine than one space station.

5. Kylo gets to planet evil via an Imperial Era TIE fighter, a fighter that is most famous for lacking shields, lifesupport, and a hyperdrive, and he would have need 2/3rds of those to get to plot planet.

6. I think I saw the Ghost show up at the final battle, so I guess Hera is still kicking.....but why is she (and by association, Wedge and any other major rebel figures from the OT era) only showing up now? Shouldn't she have already been involved with the resistance?

7. Why does the First Order even need the final order's help? They won, they rule the galaxy with FO troops everywhere and a response time to any resistance activity of like half an hour at most? Kylo doesn't even like or respect sheev, why not just have a dreadnought bomb his stupid pyramid to rubble and then just steal the ships?

8. Why is Kylo's welded together helmet constantly glowing at the weld points? That's not how welding works. Also, why not just get another helmet instead of fixing the broken one, why is he so attached to that one?

9. I see Kylo has another new ship. He changes ships like his grandma changed outfits.

10. Incom: Ships so sturdy you can dump them in the sea for like 10 years and they're good as new when you pull them out. Where Sienar Fleet Systems designs are apparently flammable.

11. While Luke pulling said x-wing out the water thing was nice, constantly having force ghosts doing stuff like that really makes one wonder why they never do that to help people. I beat having a bunch of ghost jedi show up and start throwing things at Sheev wouldn't been helpful during the final battle.

12. Shouldn't luke's x-wing's callsign have been Rogue One or or Rogue something, not Red 5? That was only his callsign during the battle of yavin, after that the sqaudron changed names.

13. The final scene with destroyed FO star destroyers was a blatant ripoff of Independence Day.

14. C3P0 was built of scrap parts on tatoine, which was explictly outside of republic control, why does he have anti-sith republic programming? Relatedly, if JJ was just going to roll back that whole memory wipe thing, what was even the point of doing it? Just have him not be able to translate it and make the next step of the scavenger hunt finding someone who can, if its so important to have that hunt.
 
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A few comments on your comments...

Other complaints/comments, in no specific order:

1. Force healing, like the Hold Maneuver, is such a horrible thing to introduce to the franchise. That would have save Qui-gon. That would have saved Anakin like 3 or 4 times, including the hole "it's too late for me" final scene with him.

It would have saved Qui-Gon and Anakin, for sure, but maybe not on the final scene. Remember Luke is a half-assed Jedi(as for Rey doing it... well, we've already established she's special)

2. Why is the final order's fleet (sigh) all ISD I's? Did they just have the 3D model from Rogue one and didn't want to make it the ISD II or something unique?

Theoretically, they're a new version of Star Destroyer, looking like the ISD I but being bigger... but, yes, they probably decided to make use of the Rogue One models.

3. Why didn't the resistance just strafe the navigation tower from the air? Is it just too tough to shoot a few torpedoes at, and if so, why don't they build everything else just as strong?

4. Since when can you just strap a death star-grade cannon onto a Star Destroyer and fire away? Why even bother with a Death Star, having an entire fleet of planet killers sounds way more in line with the Tarkin Doctrine than one space station.

Those weren't even the worst; why the fuck they didn't fucking shoot down a single Star Destroyer after cutting the navigation signal, but before the fleet from everywhere arrived? There was what, five minutes of movie scenes between both events?

5. Kylo gets to planet evil via an Imperial Era TIE fighter, a fighter that is most famous for lacking shields, lifesupport, and a hyperdrive, and he would have need 2/3rds of those to get to plot planet.

The Force provides...

6. I think I saw the Ghost show up at the final battle, so I guess Hera is still kicking.....but why is she (and by association, Wedge and any other major rebel figures from the OT era) only showing up now? Shouldn't she have already been involved with the resistance?

And what, have them eclipse the current main characters? No can do...

7. Why does the First Order even need the final order's help? They won, they rule the galaxy with FO troops everywhere and a response time to any resistance activity of like half an hour at most? Kylo doesn't even like or respect sheev, why not just have a dreadnought bomb his stupid pyramid to rubble and then just steal the ships?

Point. Eh, Palpatine would probably do something like the fleet-destroying hissy fit he did later on the movie.

9. I see Kylo has another new ship. He changes ships like his grandma changed outfits.

He has as many ships as Imelda Marcos had shoes...

12. Shouldn't luke's x-wing's callsign have been Rogue One or or Rogue something, not Red 5? That was only his callsign during the battle of yavin, after that the sqaudron changed names.

Didn't it change back to Red Squadron by the Battle of Endor?

13. The final scene with destroyed FO star destroyers was a blatant ripoff of Independence Day.

What's one more ripoff by now?

14. C3P0 was built of scrap parts on tatoine, which was explictly outside of republic control, why does he have anti-sith republic programming? Relatedly, if JJ was just going to roll back that whole memory wipe thing, what was even the point of doing it? Just have him not be able to translate it and make the next step of the scavenger hunt finding someone who can, if its so important to have that hunt.

Don't let previous facts get on the way of cheap drama...
 
Remember Luke is a half-assed Jedi(as for Rey doing it... well, we've already established she's special)

I wouldn't call him half-assed. He outright beat Vader in a sword fight and seemed to have mastery of the force on par with every other Jedi in the OT.

Those weren't even the worst; why the fuck they didn't fucking shoot down a single Star Destroyer after cutting the navigation signal, but before the fleet from everywhere arrived? There was what, five minutes of movie scenes between both events?

I'm assuming they got one or two, it just wasn't shown.

Point. Eh, Palpatine would probably do something like the fleet-destroying hissy fit he did later on the movie.

What, he'd shoot lighting at them all the way up in space? I seriously doubt he had that much juice.

Didn't it change back to Red Squadron by the Battle of Endor?

It changed back to Red for the battle in honor of those who died in the orginal Red Squadron, but just for that battle, they were rogue squadron afterward too.
 
Looking back at the ST, I think the big issue isn't necessarily that it had more plot holes and flaws than the OT, and more that it couldn't keep people from noticing them.

For example, in RTOJ, there's no reason given for why the plan to rescue Han wasn't just "get a company of badasses together, kick Jabba's door down (or get one person inside to open the door for the rest of us), fight past his two dozen goons, grab Han, leave". But Luke's overcomplicated plan to rescue Han isn't constantly brought up as a dumb thing that happened in the RTOJ, people just roll with it.

People are less kind to the ST, either because audiences are more crtical now, or because the films are missing that something that ROTJ had that diverted attention from it's flaws.
 
1. Palpatine has not yet learned that the "now watch as your friends lose a space battle" trick does not work.
A blast like that should have easily fried the circuits in all the rebel ships. The Resistance only won thanks to plot armor. What Palaptine really should have learned was the shield generator trick. He could have easily had the ships built within space and had them take off independently like normal capital ships did. he could have had multiple navigation towers or even linked to himself or his throne. This way Palpatine could coordinate his forces. This is the discount Force storm and Force wormhole move from Legends Dark Empire Palpatine. Honestly Dark Empire was so much better than this.

2. Palpatine has also not learned that when you shoot lightning at a jedi and they block it with a lightsaber, that's your cue to stop shooting lighting at them.
Palpatine faked losing to Windu. If anything that was a feedback loop and he redirected all the accumulated energy that was reflected back to him at Windu after Anakin chopped his hand off. Palpatine easily could have taken out Windu. This was more of a mockery of the Jedi showing his ultimate triumph over them now that Anakin: The Chosen One had turned to his side as his apprentice. Palpatine "lost" to Windu to get the final push needed to get Anakin as his apprentice. By doing this he showed Anakin that the Jedi were corrupt and just as bad as him. The Sequel Trilogy also shat on the Skywalker Legacy by destroying the legacy of Anakin Skywalker and destroyed all remaining Skywalkers and giving it all to a Palpatine (How ironic as good old Sheev would say).

Palpatine easily could have sucked all the life force out of Rey and Kylo leaving dead and Palapatine rejuvenated even more. Heck Palpatine was looked like how he was at the end of Revenge of the Sith. He could have sucked out some more energy to rebuild his face so he could get laid another time (since this is cannon now b/c Rey is his granddaughter). JJ Abrams nerfed Palaptine who could have easily wiped the floor with both Kylo Ren and Rey. Anakin could have easily wiped them out too. Heck during the fight between Vader at Luke on the Death Star, Vader was arguably holding back in the hope that his son turned so that they could destroy the Emperor and rule as father and son in a Galactic diad with Luke as the new Emperor.

5. Kylo gets to planet evil via an Imperial Era TIE fighter, a fighter that is most famous for lacking shields, lifesupport, and a hyperdrive, and he would have need 2/3rds of those to get to plot planet.
How would that even work since the Death Star exploded, and whatever wreck is left is now sitting in saltwater for 30 years?

8. Why is Kylo's welded together helmet constantly glowing at the weld points? That's not how welding works. Also, why not just get another helmet instead of fixing the broken one, why is he so attached to that one?
This resembles a Japanese art of kintsugi form which restores broken ceramic as an art. The cracks are highlighted and things like gold are woven in to give it an art form.

While Luke pulling said x-wing out the water thing was nice, constantly having force ghosts doing stuff like that really makes one wonder why they never do that to help people. I beat having a bunch of ghost jedi show up and start throwing things at Sheev wouldn't been helpful during the final battle.
Luke if he could do that should have just went off and killed Palpatine who was basically living corpse on life support and held together by some sort of crane.

This sequel trilogy was a disaster. A large section of my theatre including myself cheered when Palaptine came on screen and said "the dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural." Many were cheering "the Senate" when Palpatine was fully rejuvenated. I was actively rooting for the Emperor to return since according to Disney cannon the New Republic was horribly inept. And Disney also made Palpatine an idiot since they had him issue Operation Cinder to destroy loyal Imperial Worlds and assets only to retreat to the Unknown regions to build a new Empire. If Palpatine was alive and intended on coming back, he could have easily told the Empire to chill while they awaited his return. The Empire still after Endor was not dead, and could still have stamped out the resistance and Rebellion easily. It makes no sense for Palpatine to destroy his own Empire which he spent decades building (and the Sith spent 1,000 years laying the groundwork for) only to destroy it and come back later to rule the galaxy all over again.

His plan for Rey also made no sense. They should have had Palpatine appear to try and goad Rey into joining him much like how he did Anakin since Rey has no family and she is of his blood. He could have easily appeared as a grandfatherly figure and fed her lies about how the Empire was just and the New Republic Terrorists spread anarchy in the galaxy through their ineptitude. Rey would then turn to the Dark Side and Kylo Ren realizing that he was just a tool for Palpatine (like Count Dooku was) turns back to the light and tries to stop the Emperor from returning. They could have had Kylo be like Darth Caedus (Jacen Solo from legends) and had him only turn to the First Order after becoming disillusioned with the New Republic's ineptitude and corruption. He could have come to the conclusion that the Galaxy needed strong leadership to fight off some threat from the Unknown Regions (The Emperor's Return) and saw the First Order as a means to an End to unite the Galaxy around himself. Thus he would have somewhat noble goals but questionable means to attain them which makes him evil.
 
Well, baby vomit can be cleaned(and its smell, be rid of) somewhat quickly. The making of TLJ, and the time Hamill had to work with Rian, was much longer than that.

EDIT: BTW, regarding the 'dumb cunt'. What the hell is wrong with her? She's not an executive idiot that was dropped on her current job, she's a LucasArts employee since 2005, and had previously been working with Steven Spielberg since ET. Someone with this resumé shouldn't be as clueless about the main franchise of her company(the one that created her company, as a matter of fact) as she is, yet...
It happens. Even creative people have limited expertise. When fame goes to their heads, they throw their weight around and make creative decisions they don't have the skill to back up.

I also think that a new ideology had something to do with it. I mean, look at James Cameron. He used to be a levelheaded guy who could turn anything into gold. Now his two latest movies are Avatar and the latest Terminator sequel.
 
A blast like that should have easily fried the circuits in all the rebel ships. The Resistance only won thanks to plot armor. What Palaptine really should have learned was the shield generator trick. He could have easily had the ships built within space and had them take off independently like normal capital ships did. he could have had multiple navigation towers or even linked to himself or his throne. This way Palpatine could coordinate his forces. This is the discount Force storm and Force wormhole move from Legends Dark Empire Palpatine. Honestly Dark Empire was so much better than this.

As far as I know, that shouldn't have done anything, most modern aircraft can easily withstand a lighting strike without issue, there's no reason a spaceship should be more vulnerable to that.

Palpatine faked losing to Windu.

Per the ROTS novelization, that is explicitly not the case, Sheev was just straight out losing (by implication, that also means that while Rey had all of the Jedi with her to defeat Palpatine, she really only needed one of them).

How would that even work since the Death Star exploded, and whatever wreck is left is now sitting in saltwater for 30 years?

There were numerous bits of the DS above the waterline, and while it's unlikely, I don't find it completely impossible that he'd be able to find at least one functioning TIE. The DS had room for tens of thousands of the things, what are the odds every single one of them was wrecked?

This resembles a Japanese art of kintsugi form which restores broken ceramic as an art. The cracks are highlighted and things like gold are woven in to give it an art form.

Great, not only is he an emo vader fanboy, he's also a weeb.
 
This sequel trilogy was a disaster. A large section of my theatre including myself cheered when Palaptine came on screen and said "the dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural." Many were cheering "the Senate" when Palpatine was fully rejuvenated. I was actively rooting for the Emperor to return since according to Disney cannon the New Republic was horribly inept.
Now there's an idea for sci fi overlord.

The heroes save the day but discovered in peacetime they were shit at running the galactic government and fought among themselves.

The galactic overlord meanwhile had a backup plan and came back but lost his max level and memories so he has to start from zero.
 
For example, in RTOJ, there's no reason given for why the plan to rescue Han wasn't just "get a company of badasses together, kick Jabba's door down (or get one person inside to open the door for the rest of us), fight past his two dozen goons, grab Han, leave". But Luke's overcomplicated plan to rescue Han isn't constantly brought up as a dumb thing that happened in the RTOJ, people just roll with it.
I'm not saying that the execution was the best (As with everything in ROTJ) but it makes a certain sort of sense. It all ties into Luke's flirting with the Dark Side throughout ROTJ. He was looking for revenge. He grew up on Tatooine, he knew what Jabba the Hutt was doing to moisture farmers like his uncle, and he wanted to ruin Jabba and his court. If Leia didn't do the deed herself and choke the Jabba, Luke probably would have slain him himself.

So yeah. That's what was up with the convoluted plan.

Now there's an idea for sci fi overlord.

The heroes save the day but discovered in peacetime they were shit at running the galactic government and fought among themselves.

The galactic overlord meanwhile had a backup plan and came back but lost his max level and memories so he has to start from zero.
Timothy Zahn was toying around with a similar plot for Grand Admiral Thrawn.
 
Timothy Zahn was toying around with a similar plot for Grand Admiral Thrawn.
Much like the game it has to be inspired by all previous sci fi so that it can stand by itself as a fun parody of being a sci fi tyrant.
 
I'm not saying that the execution was the best (As with everything in ROTJ) but it makes a certain sort of sense. It all ties into Luke's flirting with the Dark Side throughout ROTJ. He was looking for revenge. He grew up on Tatooine, he knew what Jabba the Hutt was doing to moisture farmers like his uncle, and he wanted to ruin Jabba and his court. If Leia didn't do the deed herself and choke the Jabba, Luke probably would have slain him himself.

So yeah. That's what was up with the convoluted plan.

I'm not sure it does, because the prior movies didn't establish anything about Jabba squeezing moisture farmers or otherwise being anything more than a gangster that Han owed money too, the thing about him being this intergalactic crime lord was an EU thing that came later. Also if you're already kicking in his door and killing all his dudes, I'm pretty sure adding "and let's wack Jabba so he doesn't try to get revenge on us" to the mission plan would be a totally viable plan. Killing Jabba and having a simple plan aren't mutually exclusive.
 
I'm not sure it does, because the prior movies didn't establish anything about Jabba squeezing moisture farmers or otherwise being anything more than a gangster that Han owed money too, the thing about him being this intergalactic crime lord was an EU thing that came later.
Jabba being a local crime lord was established in the first movie with Greedo, and it would have been firmly established if Lucas had decided to keep that one scene between Han and Jabba. Which he did. Eventually.

Also if you're already kicking in his door and killing all his dudes, I'm pretty sure adding "and let's wack Jabba so he doesn't try to get revenge on us" to the mission plan would be a totally viable plan. Killing Jabba and having a simple plan aren't mutually exclusive.
That seems wrong for both a Jedi and a Sith. A Jedi, what Luke aspired to be, would go to the crime lord alone and give him multiple chances to repent before killing him and breaking his organization. And the Dark Side of the Force, what Luke was in danger of falling to, is all about power and revenge. Simply storming the castle and killing Jabba on the way out is too impersonal to exercise either of those thirsts.
 
I wouldn't call him half-assed. He outright beat Vader in a sword fight and seemed to have mastery of the force on par with every other Jedi in the OT.

Oh, I don't deny he was skilled and could theoretically have done it, it's just that, as a Jedi, Luke seems to be awfully specialized. Would he even think of doing it? Yes, yes, 'all things are possible in the Force', but what we see of his training doesn't even touch on the possibility of Force Healing existing.
 
Well, the spoilers have definitely convinced me not to see the film a single time. It's better to just let new Star Wars be dead to me than ruin childhood memories.
 
My main complaint is that the Space Battle could've been better. It started off promising but when the super massive (copy and paste) Rebel Fleet arrived it didn't really feature all that much. It was a background battle like Coruscant's Episode III Space Battle as opposed to a scene that could stand on its own like with Scarif/Endor with an actual narrative which the audience could follow what was happening and how things were moving and shaping up in the space battle.

Make no mistake, there was some of that happening, but it was so glaringly obvious and truncated I didn't really think much of it. Resistance shows up, gets hopeless, rebel fleet shows up, force storm, rebels win.

There was a lot of the intermediate space battle missing there. We could've used a lot more extraneous dog fights and glory shots and images of capitol ships duking it out with each other and the like. And maybe taken some inspiration from Episode III or the Mass Effect battles and show distinctive fleets and the like with the Mon Cals, and maybe Imperial ships given new paintjobs or Correllian or non-Human vessels... or just something more then Mon Cals and Neb-B's and the like. There's plenty of stuff they could made originally, lifted from legends... or just steal from the fandom like they've been doing already. 😇

That would've been a real treat offered to the fans.
 

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