Star Trek The General Star Trek Thread - From TOS to Corporate Schenanigans
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KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
to be fair that feringi was a gangster who was torturing one of Word's comrades I'm willing to let the circumstance slide..the gratuitous language bothers me though.
Agent23
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Yeah, well, given what Khan Noonien Singh and similar did to Earth paranoia about them is sort of understandable.
Muh super-tlerant Federation is not so tolerant after all.
Typhonis
Well-known member
Which is why I would love for Picard's crew to have encountered a civilization like GURPS Transhuman space in the first season. A place where Homo Sapiens is a lifestyle choice.
Agent23
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When you become transhuman capable it is IMHO not as much as a lifestyle choice as it is deciding if you want to be a tool-using human or stay a monkey. 😏
Also, like all leftoid propaganda most of Rodenberry's stuff sees immortals and post/transhumans as some terrible beasts and tyrants.
BTW there was also a legal prohibition/censorship against positive depictions of transhuman themes, superhumans and immortality in Soviet/Warsaw Pact science fiction.
Liberals just can't into this idea that some humans are superior to others or that man can improve upon himself or because a creature of pure logic because they know that their "mug equality" and "muh fee-fees" all fall short in such a situation.
And if man becomes god he will not need any false ideological gods like their mental diarrhea.
Oh thanks. I saw that last night and the clip was so dark I was wondering if the other goons Worf slaughtered were armed or not. I was assuming the former but wasn't sure.
This looks more like a case of...
YouTuber: Well sir you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just decapitated an unarmed man!
Worf: Well he should've armed himself if he's going to decorate his bar with my friend.
People can rightly bemoan Star Trek becoming some generic action scifi series with painful social justice messaging, but outright misrepresenting scenes out of context is called lying. Would we of seen the above generic action scene seen in prior Star Trek series? Even something like Deep Space Nine? Probably not and that is an issue. But then criticize the show on those merits. Don't need to distort things.
I don't see it as distorted, because it's about the Klingon sense of honor, which was something Worf was especially really big about. Remember that he had every reason to kill the son of Duras, yet spared him, and refused to let anyone else kill him for that reason. Also, as the video shows, there's that bit from DS9, where even just being willing to kill an unarmed Ferengi, half his size, was enough to get that one guy to get the discommendation treatment. So I don't feel it misrepresents anything. Actually the video makes the case very well with appropriate clips from TNG and DS9.
Posting a clip removed from full context of the situation and then comparing it to a bunch of other clips that run contrary to those claims is literally distorting the context.
The reason you don't see it as deceptive is because you already agree with the conclusion that was implicitly made by the video and it's selective editing.
If you or others don't see a distortion then why not post the full clip showing the leadup to the confrontation? When I first saw the video I only watched the first bits and thought more NuTrek crap with vapid fight scenes.
Then I saw Kilroys post later. Then I scrolled down and saw the comments where the Ferengi in question apparently decapitated his friend and using his head as a piece of decor and apparently immediately prior to the scene told Worf they were going to collect his head.
This wasn't evidenced in the original clip.
Now keep in mind you or anyone else can draw the exact same conclusion as before. But stating it wasn't edited out of context to be a distortion is absolutely laughable. Unless you honestly feel so confident that showing the scene in full context could absolutely add (or detract) nothing to the understanding of the point being made to any fair minded individual watching the video.
And I saw this as someone who literally hasn't seen more then one episode of any of the NuTrek and whose main exposure and interaction with it is people (mostly rightly IMHO) rightly dunking on it.
Yeah... no, and once again your utter ignorance of the actual history of Eugenics and Star Trek is showing.
Firstly, bear in mind when the original issues with the "genetically superior supermen" was written and who it was written by: World War 2 veterans. To them transhumanism and eugenics wasn't about whatever fucking nonsense you seem to think it was about, but about the horrors of applied eugenics by people who thought themselves the superior species.
You know why the post WW2 generation thinks that people who see themselves as genetically superior end up as beasts and tyrants? Are you REALLY that ignorant of history? Protip: Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan both heavily based their propaganda and plans on them being genetically superior people whom deserved to conquer and eliminate the genetically inferior. Their own experience with people who were espousing what amounted to transhumanist ideals was that they were conquering genocidal psychopaths. So of course fictions and such written by them would reflect their real life experience.
Further, when you look into the ACTUAL ideological history, the Left has has a freaking LOVE AFFAIR with Eugenics and transhumanism. The ENTIRE idea of Communism is to create what amounts to a transhuman: the New Soviet Man and populate the world with them. Further the American Progressive movement heavily bought into eugenics in the pre-WW2 era, with many still existing notable Progressive organizations, such as Planned Parenthood, who were involved in it then still active today.
In other words, basically everything you said is ass backwards. Progressives heavily believe in eugenics and transhumanism, and in fact that is a CORE motivation for many of the Progressive Elite as well as being the EXPLICIT project of Communism in the long run. Just because you happen to like it too doesn't mean they're against it, and Star Trek's long running concern about transhumanism and many of its ideals comes from the experience of post WW2 veterans who saw first hand where the underlying thought of transhumanism led.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Still though, I feel that the Federation went way overboard with banning genetic modification wholesale; something DS9 explored with Julian Bashir.
Agent23
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Except that unlike the bullshit science of the Nazis the people like Soong were more performant.
Stronger, smarter, all ther jazz.
Same goes for Bashir.
Wanna know what else the Nazis dreamt up?
Rockets, in fact one ex-Nazi put the US into space, then on the moon.
Jet aircraft, and all sorts of other tech.
To quote the infinitely more intelligent read that is Dune:
Humans are the only species that we have not tries to improve via selective breeding"
Furthermore, Eugenics has been used before and after the Nazis.
Indians sort of use it for arranged marriages, with family and personal success being required as well as I formsrion on family health history.
Michael Malice also had a very interesting video detailing eugenics today, with one example being Ashkenazi Jews in New York de facto practicing it with a form of a special dsring service that matches candidates so thst they lack recessive genes thst can cause several nasty hereditary diseases which plague them due to strong in group preference where family formarion is concerned.
Oh, and we also have the elephant in the room, which is the decrease if Down syndrome due to in vitro screening and abortion of afflicted foetuses.
And there is also the other massive elephant in the room, which is the simple fact ther, for most of human history, in most societies, marriages were arranged by the parents/extended families, and not exactly random chance based on hormones and gibberish romantic shit.
Usually people would try and marry up within their own social strata/guild in order to continue the family line, not because of random nonsense.
Furthermore, Bashir was not a product of Eugenics but of pure genetic manipulation and he was boosted mentally and physically.
And yet he would have been despised and hunted down.
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Interesting. I didn't realize there was a school of thought attributing advancements in technology to the Nazi Educational/Schooling system.
Especially apparently since they were the first to of "dreamt up" jet aircraft and space travel.
Unless it was something else intrinsically Nazi that allowed this sort of praiseworthy technological prowess.
I think it's still indictive of an deeper issue, and that the "context" left out wasn't actually relevant.
"He was a bad guy, he had it coming" is fundamentally not Star Trek, and killing helpless enemies is not something the crew does, even if they're bad people and deserve it. Fajo in "The Most Toys" is one of the only even roughly similar case I can think of, and that was explicitly noted to be Data killing him (or trying, anyway) on the grounds of "You're going to kill again, and you must be stopped before you do so" and not "how dare you kill this person, I will avenger them and kill you!". The next most relevant case, Where Worf killed Duras, did the same thing as this scene where Worf offs someone in revenge, and very clearly painted Worf's actions as, at the very least, highly questionable, if not outright wrong.
Well Kirk said it best
He killed Kirk's son and was an evil SOB. He had it coming.
Kirk also actually tried to save him in the end and only did what he did when he insisted on trying to take Kirk with him over the edge and kill them both. The man was made to literally be insane.
I honestly haven't watched this show and have been relying on reviewers for information about it. That being said, even with you describing what the context was, I still feel roughly in line with MajorGrin on this one, basically for the reasons @Battlegrinder stated. I feel that while some people think this season is better than the first two seasons, that the show is still slanted more in favor of being darker and edgier than being true to what came before. I feel Worf's character has been done a disservice, basically because someone wanted fancier swordplay - Worf-fu if you will. Worf killed Duras for killing his mate and frankly to set things right as far as who actually betrayed the Empire, but it was a duel, and Duras was armed and a match for him. All those clips MajorGrin showed us were relevant to that scene and how it was not consistent with Worf's character, nor the Klingon sense of honor. Now, correct me if I'm wrong and how that video was edited is wrong, but the first person Worf killed there was a stab through the back, right? Does that seem like a Worf thing to do?
hahahaha
hehehehe
"Klingon Sense of Honor"
Yeah, that's not a thing, despite all their big talk. The Klingons consistently showed they'd set honor aside to get advantage over each other, stab each other in the back, and even work with outside powers to pursue their own ends (I mean, the Klingon Civil War in TNG explicitly showed both sides drawing in outside help for their faction, let's not pretend the Federations "non-intervention" was ACTUAL neutrality... it wasn't they were willingly playing a side.).
Further, Worf is not an accurate portrayal of what Klingon society and honor are like; rather's he's the equivalent of an American of Japanese decent being a Samurai Weeb. His morals and culture are purely Federation, but he pretends to be a big honorable warrior from honorable warrior people AS HE THINKS THEY SHOULD BE.
This is a CONSTANT theme with Worf through TNG and DS9. Even the good guy Klingons, the Klingons that side with the protagonists, are consistently shown to be willing to compromise and set honor aside in ways Worf would not.
Given the time between the last time we saw Worf and Picard, it is completely imaginable that he actually started acting more like a true Klingon, especially if he was hanging out with them rather than remaining in the Federation.
Agent23
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I am pretty sure that at some point he or another Klingon said "Victory is the greatest honor."
I think that's a tad harsh, but yes it's important to remember Worf's concept of honor is not in line with the norm.
This, however.....eh, I don't think that seems less likely. Worf's code and personal values where already well defined by the time he got deeply involved with the Klingons and butted heads with them over differing opinions on honor, and Worf didn't budge all that much when that happened. I think it's unlikely that he'd do a near-180 after just a few more years.