Morphic Tide
Well-known member
Switch "gun grabbers" for "communists" and "guns" for "corporations".This is just a horrible comparison, try again.
Switch "gun grabbers" for "communists" and "guns" for "corporations".This is just a horrible comparison, try again.
Now we actually have an analogy that works. But now we have another fallacy: X made a bad argument, thus your similar argument for different things is bad. It doesn't work.Switch "gun grabbers" for "communists" and "guns" for "corporations".
Complaining about the government does help spur actions; it's just that realistic actions does not include 'crippling the government'.So you just want to complain to complain then. Gotcha. Meanwhile, people who don't want WW3 or the next civil war are going to have productive convos about how to actually stop it.
Abolishing the FBI would be a decent first step (shifting their kidnapping/human trafficking work to the US Marshals and counter-intel work to the DIA to retain capability without the same corruption).Look, simply abolishing the FBI would do a great deal to restore trust in the system, as opposed to attacking the Bidens which will be a waste of time. Biden isn't running for reelection past 2024: he either wins and is done, or loses and is done. It does little good to punish him.
Nuremberg 2.0 for Fauci and co. is needed; what they did hurt more than just the US populace.Punishing Fauci? That does something at least.
No, it just means more political games that go nowhere in Congress, and more shams like the Trump Impeachments but now with even more options for 'punishment'.Giving congress the power to prosecute? That also does a lot to ensure that this BS stops happening in the future. Shockingly, when you fuck up massively, it's a good idea to look at how you fucked up and ensure it can't happen again.
Never going to happen, the intel groups will always have backdoors into social media; that cat is not going back into the bag.Stopping Government from communicating with social media? That also does a lot to stop this BS from happening in the future.
Yes. Because letting the government grow with a million different laws that allow it to attack anyone has worked so well.Complaining about the government does help spur actions; it's just that realistic actions does not include 'crippling the government'.
I mean viewing the government as The One Ring is part of why your ideas are disconnected from non-AnCap reality.
But I thought you were against crippling the government?Abolishing the FBI would be a decent first step (shifting their kidnapping/human trafficking work to the US Marshals and counter-intel work to the DIA to retain capability without the same corruption).
They'll do it anyway. There's no undoing the nuclear option with 'norms'. The only option is radical law change.However, given what they are doing to Trump, where they want him to die in prison, doing the same to Biden regardless of the outcome of 2024 is a must, otherwise the Dems will feel emboldened as the GOP once again 'turns the other cheek'.
Good? I though you'd like being able to prosecute Biden & Fauci right now.No, it just means more political games that go nowhere in Congress, and more shams like the Trump Impeachments but now with even more options for 'punishment'.
Literally there's a court case right now that will likely win that will stop this.Never going to happen, the intel groups will always have backdoors into social media; that cat is not going back into the bag.
And 'Crippling' it won't fix a damn thing that is wrong with our government; it'll just mean that some of those laws which protect private citizens against uncaring corporations or careless stupidity (Clean Air and Water Act, OSHA, etc) will no longer have any force, while also removing any of the remaining restraints against pure anarchy in society in general.Yes. Because letting the government grow with a million different laws that allow it to attack anyone has worked so well.
The FBI is not the whole government, and the US Marshals and DIA have a cleaner rep and less political influence pushing than the FBI, while not stopping the work against human trafficking/kidnapping or counter-intel work that actually semi-justifies the FBI's current existence.But I thought you were against crippling the government?
Which is why political MAD must be enforced by the GOP when it gets power again. Anything norm broke to attack Trump must be used against Biden, any attack against Trump supporters must be returned in kind against Biden supporters when the time comes.They'll do it anyway. There's no undoing the nuclear option with 'norms'. The only option is radical law change.
Yes, via a cleaned up DoJ, or even the Hague for Fauci; not via creating even more avenues for useless stupidity in Congress.Good? I though you'd like being able to prosecute Biden & Fauci right now.
Yeah, and if you think that court case (should it go the way we want) will actually stop the installation of backdoors in software/social media, and stop the gov from using it's influence on social media via backchannels, I got an igloo in the Sahara to sell you.Literally there's a court case right now that will likely win that will stop this.
The Patriot Act was both. Their funding was both. The war on drugs was both. The idea that the republicans had nothing to do with the runaway nature of the FBI is absurd. They've had office since it existed, why not limit its powers instead of expanding them since?
Corporations also become based on force the moment they become intergenerational, as now the determinant of who owns the infrastructure for economically useful labor and who's stuck doing it is strictly inheritances that history well proves demands a lot of force to maintain rather than consent of current participants. This necessary use of force is typically outsourced to the government, but has been handled in-house before and will again if you remove the public option.Given that government is inherently based on force, and companies are based on consent
Section 215, for just one reason you are wrong here.Patriot Act was NSA, not FBI.
Yes, because I said destroy the government where exactly? I'm pretty sure I said cripple, which sorta implies not destroying it, just limiting it excessively. You'll note I said I was dubious about anarchism working in this thread, but that's not convenient for you to mention, so you decided to sail at a strawman that I wanted all government gone.And 'Crippling' it won't fix a damn thing that is wrong with our government; it'll just mean that some of those laws which protect private citizens against uncaring corporations or careless stupidity (Clean Air and Water Act, OSHA, etc) will no longer have any force, while also removing any of the remaining restraints against pure anarchy in society in general.
Then again, you are an AnCap, and want anarchy.
Getting rid of the FBI does cripple the DOJ, and thus the government. Thinking otherwise is dumb.The FBI is not the whole government, and the US Marshals and DIA have a cleaner rep and less political influence pushing than the FBI, while not stopping the work against human trafficking/kidnapping or counter-intel work that actually semi-justifies the FBI's current existence.
But that sort of nuanced approach doesn't fit with your 'cripple the government because it's the One Ring' rhetoric.
Lol! Limited exchange! You don't understand MAD, buddy.Which is why political MAD must be enforced by the GOP when it gets power again. Anything norm broke to attack Trump must be used against Biden, any attack against Trump supporters must be returned in kind against Biden supporters when the time comes.
Maybe a single exchange of this sort will be enough to deter further fuckery by the Dems for a while, but the GOP need to be ready to exchange political salvo's every few years/any time they get power, if they ever want the Dems to learn not to keep breaking shit because of 'Orange Man/MAGA Bad'.
If you don't think that the courts can stop government, why are you advocating for prosecutions of government figures (those happen in a court btw)?Yeah, and if you think that court case (should it go the way we want) will actually stop the installation of backdoors in software/social media, and stop the gov from using it's influence on social media via backchannels, I got an igloo in the Sahara to sell you.
Not a use of force. The person who died consensually willed the company to the inheritor. It's no different than a sale: the transfer of ownership of the company decided unilaterally by the owner and recipient.Corporations also become based on force the moment they become intergenerational, as now the determinant of who owns the infrastructure for economically useful labor and who's stuck doing it is strictly inheritances that history well proves demands a lot of force to maintain rather than consent of current participants. This necessary use of force is typically outsourced to the government, but has been handled in-house before and will again if you remove the public option.
No, I'm saying a multi tiered justice system has always been there, with politicians at the top. We aren't watching a new system appear, we are watching a violation of the current system, one that could end with 'the party in power can prosecute the party not in power' as the new norm which is really bad banana republic level.
Watch when he gets in office, not only will we get a war but only 9 million illegals this year and only a small fortune to Israel. I watched the media and nearly every single institution in America attack the man for the past 8 years. I know when i'm watching a fight to the death or WCW(utter fabricated nonsense)Utter nonsense.
No, this is one of the most absolutely fucking retarded Q-anon style takes I've ever seen. Explain the logic here. What's Trump got to gain by this? Why would he have a deal?Watch when he gets in office, not only will we get a war but only 9 million illegals this year and only a small fortune to Israel. I watched the media and nearly every single institution in America attack the man for the past 8 years. I know when i'm watching a fight to the death or WCW(utter fabricated nonsense)
Bzzt! Wrong!They're trying to destroy the man and prevent him from running.
You're right, I was wrong.Bzzt! Wrong!
They are trying to punish him for committing a large number of very serious crimes.
That he is a former president with a substantial number of defenders who will never believe that any guilty verdict is accurate - regardless of how volumous the piles of supporting evidence are - makes this difficult. That he also has detractors who'll believe that any not guilty verdict was the result of a jury ignoring said evidence complicates things further.
We are in the midst of a no-win slow-motion shitshow with 24/7 news coverage.
The conspiracy against rights charge he is facing? The DoJ ain't joking around when that's on the list of charges because, in certain circumstances, the death penalty is a possible sentence.
Funnily enough, the timing also lines up pretty well with what was predicted long ahead of time, and also with the norms expected for the investigation. Also, I don't think any possible outcome would actually stop him from running so if this is a grand plan to stop him it's a pretty poor one. Further, given how divisive trump is, even among GOP supporters, there's probably a decent sized subset of "the left establishment" that do want him running. Finally, lol at the idea that some sorta monolithic and organised "left establishment" even exists, let alone is capable of stage managing and controlling events and the DoJ as you seem to believe.You're right, I was wrong.
The left establishment does want him running in the Primaries.
And they're using these indictments recently to distract people from Biden's corruption.
The timing just happens to be right around when news about Biden comes out lol
It's a plan to ensure he's toxic enough to lose, but also keep him propped up enough by his base to win the Primaries.Funnily enough, the timing also lines up pretty well with what was predicted long ahead of time, and also with the norms expected for the investigation. Also, I don't think any possible outcome would actually stop him from running so if this is a grand plan to stop him it's a pretty poor one. Further, given how divisive trump is, even among GOP supporters, there's probably a decent sized subset of "the left establishment" that do want him running. Finally, lol at the idea that some sorta monolithic and organised "left establishment" even exists, let alone is capable of stage managing and controlling events and the DoJ as you seem to believe.
"And yes a monolithic dem structure does exist, but its a loose structure of many independent organizations with their own, similar goals." That's, by definition, not a monolithic structure. That's just the large majority of society being in general agreement with each other, and opposed to what you think/believe.It's a plan to ensure he's toxic enough to lose, but also keep him propped up enough by his base to win the Primaries.
Same strategy as 2016. Get him through Primaries, lose generals.
They did this plan all around the country with Maga candidates that they funded in 2022, and it worked. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/12/democrats-interfere-republican-primaries/
And yes a monolithic dem structure does exist, but its a loose structure of many independent organizations with their own, similar goals. They have control over the media, social media, the schools and the vast majority of corporate culture. They don't need to get together in dark rooms to plot - they simply need to follow the same general pathways, and it works as a monolithic structure. Look no further than the covid censorship of 2021 to see how that works.
Look at how Time Magazins couldn't help but to brag about it: The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election
Look at how social media hid the Hunter Biden story right before the election. Look how the media thay did cover it said it was just Russian disinformation, and look at how 40+ intelligence officials who knew they were lying, signed a letter claiming it was Russian disinformation.
And recently we had the Facebook Files 2.0. Which exposed that the Biden admin was negotiating with FB to supress right wing news and amplify left wing propaganda:
Facebook Files Part 2 shows Biden White House asking Facebook to change algorithm to favor New York Times over The Daily Wire 👀
This is absolutely criminal the way the White House has been meddling in public information and trying to control the public narrative by manipulating what YOU see on Facebook.notthebee.com
Essentially, a bunch of people with their own interests, and a similar way to get there, influence society with censorship, propaganda and legal action.
Its been going on for years and there are mountains of evidence.
Taking unprecedented steps to arrest the sitting president's main political rival, while the president himself is plenty corrupt, is all just a part of that.
I'm not even saying Trump is innocent. I'm saying all presidents have committed crimes, but they never go after the other ones. It's a plot against Trump. If it wasn't, we would see lots of other ex presidents in trouble. We don't, because our law enforcement, particularly on the federal level, has become politicized and is batting for the left.
I just gave you links proving tje monolithic structure exists."And yes a monolithic dem structure does exist, but its a loose structure of many independent organizations with their own, similar goals." That's, by definition, not a monolithic structure. That's just the large majority of society being in general agreement with each other, and opposed to what you think/believe.
The reason that trump is facing legal trouble, and other presidents haven't, is because his crimes are so much more serious and blatant. Yeah there's generally some level of wrongdoing, but we haven't seen anything like trump since Nixon. And the only reason he didn't face charges was a pardon. Honestly, I will be extremely surprised if Biden doesn't pardon trump too. Difference being, he kinda has to wait for a guilty verdict or trump just spins it as "They knew they couldn't win."
The reason that trump is facing legal trouble, and other presidents haven't, is because his crimes are so much more serious and blatant.
Yes, it could be considered a structure, though I'd even consider that debatable since "structure" implies organisation and a degree of control, rather than merely a group moving in the same direction by consensus. It sure as hell doesn't count as monlithic though, unless you're using some definition I've never seen. Monolithic literally means that it's one, single and united thing. That's the opposite of many disparate elements, regardless of whether those elements often have some or many overlapping goals.I just gave you links proving tje monolithic structure exists.
And yes a bunch of people with the same interests working together toward a common goal, does count as a structure. They don't need to gather In dark smokey rooms and plot. I've just demonstrated to you how they do it.
Perhaps we could try dealing in specifics, rather than vague allusion if that's not too hard for you? I'll get you started; Clinton got a blow job and lied about it, and Obama occasionally blew up innocent people in targeted attacks. Neither of those is as bad as the degree of mishandling of state secrets, and the attempts to obfuscate and further them that trump engaged in. Neither of those is as bad as attempts to fundamentally undermine the basis of American democracy that trump has engaged in. Perhaps you had other specifics in mind though?Tell me you're too young to remember the Clinton Presidency without telling me you're too young to remember the Clinton Presidency.
Tell me you bought the propaganda about the Obama administration being 'scandal free' without telling me you bought it.