Middle East Trump makes way for Turkey operation against Kurds in Syria

[Quickdraw101]

It's rather rich that Trump, being a draft dodging coward, is complaining about other people not fighting. My grandfather served and got injured in Vietnam. He would shake his head if he were still alive.

 

[The Name of Love]

This is a great video on the matter.

 

[remulian]

I think this is just more evidence as to what a huge piece of cowardly shit Trump is. Erdogan should have been told to get fucked. Not only that but have you seen the excuses Trump posted. Well the Kurds didnt help at Normandy. Fucking hell. Yet im sure some slack jawed mouth breathers will still support the Cheeto in Chief.

You are some kind of pinko aren't you?

I’d actually support Trump if he pulled out all of the troops from the Middle East. But you are right: he’s too cowardly to defy the Neocons and the Military-Industrial Complex.

There are other markets for arms sales. And as a salesman he can convince them to buy american arms. If done as a backroom deal with a future sale in the bag he would not need defy them just sell them on diverting the flow of arms. Couple it with a very public complete withdraw from the middle east, in conjunction with the Korean peace negotiations, perhaps a post British trade deal that puts the Brits firmly in the American sphere uber alles and he would have one of the most successful foreign policy terms.

 

[Porkchopper]

You are some kind of pinko aren't you?



There are other markets for arms sales. And as a salesman he can convince them to buy american arms. If done as a backroom deal with a future sale in the bag he would not need defy them just sell them on diverting the flow of arms. Couple it with a very public complete withdraw from the middle east, in conjunction with the Korean peace negotiations, perhaps a post British trade deal that puts the Brits firmly in the American sphere uber alles and he would have one of the most successful foreign policy terms.

A pinko? Thats your best? Sorry that I can actually think more than 5 minutes in the future and what this kind of shit does to our international word. If that makes me a pinko then call me bubblegum. I dont feel the need to defend myself from somw bottom tier insult tumbling from the mouth of a half wit like you. Erdogan called Trump up and told him he would hit his properties in Turkey and Trump folded like a wet towel. Even his own aide said that he got rolled. And I'm supposed to accept that? To respect that?

 

[The Name of Love]

There are other markets for arms sales. And as a salesman he can convince them to buy american arms. If done as a backroom deal with a future sale in the bag he would not need defy them just sell them on diverting the flow of arms. Couple it with a very public complete withdraw from the middle east, in conjunction with the Korean peace negotiations, perhaps a post British trade deal that puts the Brits firmly in the American sphere uber alles and he would have one of the most successful foreign policy terms.

You completely miss the point of what I said, didn't you? Alright, I'll make it clear (since I'm bad at communicating sometimes).

Ahem.

Donald Trump is supported overwhelmingly by people who are for pulling out of useless wars in the Middle East. This article in particular points out that 76% of Trump voters support withdrawing from Syria entirely. Trump knows this is true. He knows that there is a military-industrial complex that "really loves war" and wants to keep us bogged down there forever. And yet he surrounds himself with war hawks nutjobs like Mike Pompeo that constantly spout the same tired slogans. And when he does defy them, he doesn't actually move out of Syria. Rather, he just moves out of Northern Syria. It's pathetic.

The price of getting rid of our empire will be high, but the price of maintaining it will be higher. War destroys the soul of a nation, breeds a culture of death, and inevitably leads to tyranny at home.

 

[Captain X]

Russia is a shadow of what the Soviet Union once was; China is a far bigger threat to us now, and nobody seems to think we need a NATO equivalent to deal with them.

We had one. Maybe we ought to being SEATO back.

Also, I'd argue Russia wouldn't even be antagonistic to American interests, if we had actually stopped treating then like an existential threat after the Cold War ended; there was a window of opportunity there to turn our former enemies into our friends, and we refused to take advantage of it.

Seems to me we did. Granted, I was pretty young at the time, but I seem to recall a rather short period when we were rather chummy with each other.

 

[GoldRanger]

Yeah, let them fight their own independence. No more blood wars for Israel!

You've never fought a single war, blood or otherwise, for Israel. Don't lie.

 

[remulian]

A pinko? Thats your best? Sorry that I can actually think more than 5 minutes in the future and what this kind of shit does to our international word. If that makes me a pinko then call me bubblegum. I dont feel the need to defend myself from somw bottom tier insult tumbling from the mouth of a half wit like you. Erdogan called Trump up and told him he would hit his properties in Turkey and Trump folded like a wet towel. Even his own aide said that he got rolled. And I'm supposed to accept that? To respect that?

It was more of a joke but now I am most pleased you took it as a insult.

Until turkey is out of NATO they will be always higher priority over some other group that does not have a nuclear arsenal stationd there and a vastly important geostrategic position . The leadership of the US or Turkey is as a rule irrelevant so long as they remain within parameters.
The Kurds did their job now they need to go the way of the dodo.
I mean leaving Assad in peace in the first place would have been better but spilled milk and all that.
Kurdistan was never going to happen. Everyone knew that, even when the Kurd militias held north Iraq after desert storm. The NATO membership of turkey always guaranteed that the Kurds will have gotten assfucked one way or another, and now the Turks have afixed bayonetted and are dealing with it themselves.

You would have to be a utter fool at geopolitics to actively oppose them, even if the domestic situation demands and has you publicly opposing them for whatever reasons.

You completely miss the point of what I said, didn't you? Alright, I'll make it clear (since I'm bad at communicating sometimes).

Ahem.

Donald Trump is supported overwhelmingly by people who are for pulling out of useless wars in the Middle East. This article in particular points out that 76% of Trump voters support withdrawing from Syria entirely. Trump knows this is true. He knows that there is a military-industrial complex that "really loves war" and wants to keep us bogged down there forever. And yet he surrounds himself with war hawks nutjobs like Mike Pompeo that constantly spout the same tired slogans. And when he does defy them, he doesn't actually move out of Syria. Rather, he just moves out of Northern Syria. It's pathetic.

The price of getting rid of our empire will be high, but the price of maintaining it will be higher. War destroys the soul of a nation, breeds a culture of death, and inevitably leads to tyranny at home.

I do get it, but while the electorate is nice and all he has to work with the administrative system that exists if he wants anything done. So the military industrial comp!ex needs to get some bones form all the relevant departments to work. That means either sinecures, time in the spotlight, money or something else. - either way they got to get paid for the machine to function, especially as it is one the party he is nominally of relied and was enmeshed with heavily.

The only way you get rid of them is a purge or a payoff that can not be refused, and the first option is not something that can be done in a western system, not the proper way.

 

[Terthna]

Seems to me we did. Granted, I was pretty young at the time, but I seem to recall a rather short period when we were rather chummy with each other.

I suggest you look up Stephen F. Cohen. The man has had a lot to say about the deteriorating relationship between the US and Russia, and the numerous lost opportunities we've had to turn them into an ally.

 

[Es Arcanum]

I think this is just more evidence as to what a huge piece of cowardly shit Trump is. Erdogan should have been told to get fucked. Not only that but have you seen the excuses Trump posted. Well the Kurds didnt help at Normandy. Fucking hell. Yet im sure some slack jawed mouth breathers will still support the Cheeto in Chief.

So anyone who supports the withdrawl of US troops from the Middle East is now a 'slack jawed mouth breather' are they?

Well you're an idiot.

Geo-politics is not all about feelings and being 'nice' to people. Its about interests. The Kurds who are not an allied state have bad luck in their geographical distribution. Giving them an independent state threatens the security of Syria, Turkey, Iran and Iraq and risks turning the whole region into an ethnic charnelhouse which may very well end up with the Kurds being ethnically cleansed. They don't have a 'right' to a state anymore than any other ethnic group nor do they have any right to have the USA fight on their behalf to establish one. The US and Kurds had a mutually beneficial relationship in the fight against ISIS. That relationship has now ended, the USA owes the Kurds nothing.

Go comfort the family of a US soldier who has lost a loved one in the US's wars in the Middle East in the past two decades and explain to them why you think more should die so that you can 'stick it to Erdogan' or whatever the hell your motivation is here. Because apparently strategic decisions should be made based upon whether or not you find foreign leaders morally objectionable or not. I mean what strategic benefit to the USA is there to outweigh the cost of staying there?

And isn't it funny?

When Trump threatens military action he's a warmonger, his critics lambaste him for it and shout to the skies that he's a threat to world peace.

When he actually starts delivering on his promises and withdraws US soldiers from wars in foreign lands people lambaste him for undermining security and threatening world peace.

If you wait for that part of the world to become some peaceful paradise before you depart from it then you will never leave. I don't care about what the man posts on twitter. What matters is what he's actually doing and to my eyes the US seems to be looking out for its own interests which is what its leader is supposed to do.

If it really bothers you that much then go and donate some money to the Kurdish cause or maybe volunteer to help them through humanitarian methods instead of bitching online about how other people from your country should be sent to die there in a fight thats not theirs so you can feel better about yourself.

 

[The Name of Love]

You've never fought a single war, blood or otherwise, for Israel. Don't lie.

What the hell are you talking about? I never said I was a veteran. Don't call me a liar.

What I am not, however, is a chicken hawk. Unlike some people.

I do get it, but while the electorate is nice and all he has to work with the administrative system that exists if he wants anything done. So the military industrial comp!ex needs to get some bones form all the relevant departments to work. That means either sinecures, time in the spotlight, money or something else. - either way they got to get paid for the machine to function, especially as it is one the party he is nominally of relied and was enmeshed with heavily.

The only way you get rid of them is a purge or a payoff that can not be refused, and the first option is not something that can be done in a western system, not the proper way.

The President is the Commander-in-Chief, and the vast majority of the military actions taken around the world are not wars declared by Congress. Given how powerful the U.S. Presidency has become at this point, he could initiate a purge if he really wanted to. But he's afraid of being controversial.

 

[Scottty]

Given how powerful the U.S. Presidency has become at this point, he could initiate a purge if he really wanted to. But he's afraid of being controversial.

Donald Trump is afraid of being controversial?

 

[Arch Dornan]

We can only hope.

Looks to be.

UN facing record cash crisis with member states not paying bill

UN chief António Guterres warned the organisation was facing the worst cash crisis in nearly a decade, and runs the risk of not being able to pay staff and suppliers.

www.euronews.com

I'm not sure about where all that money went but with all the bad news I sometimes hear I can imagine corruption, wasteful spending on useless pursuits and the cases of sex trafficking that includes the underage.

 

[Scottty]

It's rather rich that Trump, being a draft dodging coward, is complaining about other people not fighting. My grandfather served and got injured in Vietnam. He would shake his head if he were still alive.

Well, if Trump didn't go to fight in the stupid, senseless meatgrinder war of Vietnam, he can't very well order other people to go and fight in stupid wars now, can he?
Better just call all the troops home.

 

[The Name of Love]

Donald Trump is afraid of being controversial?

Yes. Yes he is. You can see that in most of his actions. He wants people to like him.

 

[Spartan303]

I like the Kurds, I'm probably one of the most Pro-Kurds guys here. That being said, when it comes to Syria there is nothing but bad options on top of bad. The Kurds helped defeat ISIS due to them being a threat to their own existence. We helped prevent that from happening. What were the Kurds interests in Syria beyond that point? But let's be realistic here. Sometimes there are just no good options. I wouldn't be envious of any President in this situation, be he Bush, Obama or Trump.

As for options as I see them.

1.) So it's attack a Strategic ally (Turkey) to protect one not strategically viable long term. Because that won't destabilize the region further...how?

2.) Do nothing? Which we're not, but it is an option.

3.) Apply economic sanctions to Turkey. This seems to be on the table should Turkey cross a certain point. But what IS that point? That needs to be solidly addressed on what the line is.

4.) Oust Erdogan. Yeah...not seeing how that one won't blow up in our faces big time.

5.) Attack the Kurds to secure greater ties with Turkey. This one is just as bad as attacking Turkey.

None of these options are good. And all are the results of decades of foreign policy in the region. What I don't get is the Left going insane at the idea of Trump not going to war. I don't get that, I thought the Far Left was Anti-War? I'm not sure a war is the right answer here and would only lead to further destabilization of the region.

 

[Francis Urquhart]

That's a very neat summary of the situation and one that comes as a great relief after the much heat/little light tenor of the recent posts. The one point I would disagree on comes in point Three where you say

But what IS that point? That needs to be solidly addressed on what the line is.

I would say that a carefully-calculated level of doubt and uncertainty is valuable here, The problem with solidly addressing the point is that we have a very mobile, very fluid situation that is changing in unpredictable ways. In these circumstances, a firmly defined line can quickly change from an asset into a liability. Keeping the points and lines undefined means that aims and objectives can be modified in accordance with circumstances. There's also the point that if the opposition knew what the lines and points are, they can modify their own approach to game those lines and points. If the opposition doesn't know what those points are, they can't game them.

 

[The Name of Love]

None of these options are good. And all are the results of decades of foreign policy in the region. What I don't get is the Left going insane at the idea of Trump not going to war. I don't get that, I thought the Far Left was Anti-War? I'm not sure a war is the right answer here and would only lead to further destabilization of the region.

You only think that because of their opposition to the Vietnam War and the Second Iraq War. In fact, there have been anti-war and pro-war Republicans, anti-war and pro-war Democrats. This article is a good overview of the current situation.

 

[7 Gold Eye Heals the Wise]

It's rather rich that Trump, being a draft dodging coward

>Draft dodging
Donald Trump got a deferment under the 1-Y classification from Vietnam in 1968, which put him at the bottom of the draft list, and then was re-classified as 4-F in 1972 after re-examination.

Even then, without the deferment his draft lottery number was far away enough that the VC would need to have invaded CONUS before he got called.

Clinton dodged the draft(and bombed an aspirin factory)

Opinion | Bill Clinton's Vietnam Test, Cont'd. (Published 1992)

www.nytimes.com

 

[SergeantBrother]

I'm all for pulling out of Syria. It was terrible to involve ourselves there in the first place, particularly considering some of the shady characters we were funding and the shaky justifications for doing so.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we're pulling out here. We're just stepping aside to let our long time allies, the Kurds, to get stomped on after our activities in the regions have made them unusually vulnerable. This isn't the first time we've left the Kurds hanging out to dry. I might consider the Kurds an unfortunate but acceptable sacrifice if it meant a radical shift in our foreign policy, withdrawing from the Middle East and other places we have no business being, but we aren't even pulling out of Syria.

Withdrawing just enough to let our allies get massacred, a situation which wouldn't happen if it weren't for our activity there, but still maintaining numerous forces elsewhere in the region - it just seems like the worst of both worlds to me.