Military US Military Is Scared Americans Won't Fight For Globalism

You do know that most people in college go Officer right because that is more appealing to college people.

And people often go into yhe military because it offers free college before they go.

And Bacle, have you ever talked to recruiters who actually care about thier job?
Because do you have any actual experience with anything military outside of what you hear on media?

And you do know that the stuff for Vietnam was more akin to that of the media and the country turning its back on the soldiers.

I work woth guys straight out of high-school.
The military offers better chances for them to he able to start ahead of thier peers even for one contract.
A soldier who for instance, does 17C. Right out of high-school.
Boom, ethical hacker and a whole bunch of certs, for free.
We have high-school to flight school. Boom, free pilots license.

Military is more interesting for highschoolers then college because it allows them to get ahead of peers for less money spent and most likely more money gained...



Edit: hell, recruiting college students is part of why the military has had woke issues.
Well lets see, two direct recruiting attempts.

One when I just got out of college, and was working in a deli and had three guys in uniform come into to get groceries and try to recruit me while I was prepping meat for sandwiches. Oddly, my manager was an Army mom, and she told them to stop poaching her skeleton crew.

One last year where I was cold texted by some recruiter who's intel/coordination officer's updates were so bad they thought I was still in college. Completely ignored that, despite repeated attempt at 'Hey we have this dicord, hey we have this chatroom, hey here are these links to materials you might like (because you aren't reply to my cold texts)'. Almost texted back his intel officer had outdated info, but decided not to, didn't want to show any interest or interaction from my end.

Multiple extended family in the Air Force at officer and enlisted level, mostly retired or medically discharged now, and merchant marines and USAAF in my grandparents generation, and on odd Marine or Airman out in the 3rd cousins.

And that's not counting stories from the disgruntled vets I worked along side in the CO legal cannabis industry.

Veitnam was DC turning it's back on it's own citizens to help France try to keep their colony, the media just told facts about it that the DoD would have preferred not gone public, and the public did not owe the troops 'support' for an unpopular and unjust war.
Apparently the average parents aren't even on the radar there, only teacher's unions and a particular kind of activist parents. Look at the issues raised...

My point exactly. But apparently the interest in that is not big, it's just people with lots of power in schools wanting to remove those they don't like and invite far more questionable ones instead as they like those.

Will recruiters of any profession, movement or organization ever do that?
For one, in case of military specifically, looks like the teachers and many others are just lining up to tell them the other side of the story.
On the other hand, will teachers who advocate for colleges and certain kind of courses do that?
I think military recruiters are a complete non-issue compared to the internal problem US education system has with activist teacher base's "who will guard the guards" style problem.

So where are they supposed to recruit the enlisted? People in colleges are interested in finishing the college and are going to be hardly interested in enlisted work due to the qualifications they are just in process of getting for money already spent there if nothing else.
Military kinda needs to have lots of enlisted personnel, any military, ever.

Dude, Vietnam was almost 60 years ago. More than Vietnam was separated from friggin WW1. Lots have changed in warfare since then. Nevermind that the most unpopular deal with Vietnam was draftees, not recruitment.
And yet in the article itself, the Secretary of the Army herself said Veitnam views and issues with it still persist among adults who are raising and teaching the youth the military wants to recruit, and still have power to turn off recruits.

That doesn't sound like Veitnam is nearly as irrelevant and out of the recruiting picture as the military would like, and the military is going to have to deal with the fact the Veitnam legacy isn't going away, just because they are aiming to recruit people to young to remember it.
 
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I got a 1 grand bonus, but that was before they were desperate. And it does depend in MOS. The ones that have big bucks are either combat arms or the rare ones.
But you still often get bonus from 1 grand up to 50.
If it is in thier contract they are entitled to one. Did they ever actually try amd get it or did they think it would be aut9matic upon completion of AIT?

uh.. you would be surprised. There are barracks ok Fort Hood that are nice as hell. Believe it or not, most barrracks are nice. And okes that arnt are getting torn down and redone. I am literally wathing it happen every day i go to work.

I know this. You are acting like i dont know what i am talking about.
i am in the fucking army.
and tour right you dont get to opt out. But most DFACs are not bad, in fact they are pretty good and have what is needed for a balanced meal.
hell, i see soldiers who are not married bringing it in every morning.
I was in Korea getting DFAC food. It wasn't diffrent from here at Hood

eh, again a meme not true. Basically, what ever you have that they can diagnose you with they will get what you need. You need to be proactive when doing it though, and they are often months away. One of my NCOs broke his thumb doing something stupid. The Army paid for everything for it. He did it in his off time as well.
Another one had an issue from deployment, and the Army didn't just say here's some motrine.
It was literally something that couldn't be seen and they got him the surgery.
My chief gets back injections.

the thing is, document every injury. Because you will get treatment for it. You just have to be persistent and not just drag your feet.
you have to be a grownup

not true at all. You literally get to travel all the time for TDY, and then you can also renelist for over seas duty stations.
You get to do all sorts of things. So yeah.
Idk what the hell your talking about.

what fine print are you talking about?
That you have to serve so long? I am also talking in the military. You get TA, which is actual free college. Just make sure you are doing how much it is and not more or you oay jt yourself or pull from GI bill...

Uh what?
you do know that you do kot have to go through anything for the absentee except your state.
and it isnt supply that does it. It is who ever is designated as the Voting person. And all theu do is say "Hey, here is how you do it...
like that's it.
And yeah, that is the only tuing, and even then if you are living in the barracks you are literally perfectly fine. The DFAC still functions. The Army still runs.

I mean, eh. It is better then living with your parents getting no experience outside of retail or spending thousands of dollars and getting told you should be hated in college.
And you can get a trade and all the certs for that without spending a penny either.
Pay isn't, and you are right.
I, since I am married, get BAH and BAS. Both are Tax free.

You know, I got my DD-214 so I don't actually need to go into this. I'm glad you've found a happy balance in the service.

That doesn't change the reality on the ground, people are not volunteering for military service at the required amount, and the retention rates for trained service personnel are atrocious.

Something is clearly wrong.
 
And yet in the article itself, the Secretary of the Army herself said Veitnam views and issues with it still persist among adults who are raising and teaching the youth the military wants to recruit, and still have power to turn off recruits.

That doesn't sound like Veitnam is nearly as irrelevant and out of the recruiting picture as the military would like, and the military is going to have to deal with the fact the Veitnam legacy isn't going away, just because they are aiming to recruit people to young to remember it.
But what kind of Vietnam views? If the hard left teacher union people have hippy views about this and many, many other things, of course they would, and it's going away the same time "legacy of slavery" and "legacy of colonialism" will - aka it's not a matter of time, but of local and national political situation.
 
But what kind of Vietnam views? If the hard left teacher union people have hippy views about this and many, many other things, of course they would, and it's going away the same time "legacy of slavery" and "legacy of colonialism" will - aka it's not a matter of time, but of local and national political situation.
Marduk, I know some things may not have filtered over to Poland through US media and culture yet, but very few people of any political persuasion have anything positive to say about the Veitnam war or DC and the military's actions in Veitnam. Only motards in the military, or copium huffing Silent gen/Boomer who cannot admit the US military did not win that conflict.

I know you want to dismiss the public still having a serous negative view of the US actions in Veitnam as just a "Lefty/fringe thing", but the article itself laid out that it still affects recruiting numbers and attitudes of adults who are raising the kids the military wants to pull in.

The military has tried to ignore, deflect, and spin what happened in Veitnam for decades, because directly addressing the issue and it's affects on recruiting would mean swallowing a lot of pride and digging out skeletons DC wants to stay buried.
 
But what kind of Vietnam views? If the hard left teacher union people have hippy views about this and many, many other things, of course they would, and it's going away the same time "legacy of slavery" and "legacy of colonialism" will - aka it's not a matter of time, but of local and national political situation.

The right hates centralized government and mistrusts three letters agencies, with some believing they need abolition. There's further resentment and mistrust about the erosion of the middle class to enrich people who don't live in the US or its territories. This was disgraceful and a mistake. Those people are neither Americans by birth or service nor pledge and thus should never matter to any calculation of how to enrich American citizens beyond their existence as a means to achieve that end. Vietnam, like the cold war in general, was an excuse to enrich wealthy communists and bureaucratic state fanatics who pretended to be conservatives, their buddies in big pharma and Lockheed Martin. Thus viewed, the Vietnam war as a shameful act of national prostitution that severely harmed America's prosperity.

Conservatives are like "Foreign wars bad" and "deep state bad."

And Neocons think it was great.

The left hates the war because MUH OPPRESSED RICE FARMERS and other bullshit that doesn't matter.


The first two positions are incredibly based, even if the second one lacks nuance, and the last two are the positions of an idiot. Communist or Catholic, Rice farmers in Nam don't matter unless Americans can benefit from their farming. Their personal afflictions at the hands of communism are only relevant to America's interests because the French were disgusting frog monsters propping up regime after regime of drug lords. Our association with that was disgraceful.

Although I'll admit America missed a fine opportunity to use Nam as a gigantic dagger in China's back, given just how many Cheecoms they took out during that one abortive invasion, oh well.
 
Marduk, I know some things may not have filtered over to Poland through US media and culture yet, but very few people of any political persuasion have anything positive to say about the Veitnam war or DC and the military's actions in Veitnam. Only motards in the military, or copium huffing Silent gen/Boomer who cannot admit the US military did not win that conflict.

I know you want to dismiss the public still having a serous negative view of the US actions in Veitnam as just a "Lefty/fringe thing", but the article itself laid out that it still affects recruiting numbers and attitudes of adults who are raising the kids the military wants to pull in.

The military has tried to ignore, deflect, and spin what happened in Veitnam for decades, because directly addressing the issue and it's affects on recruiting would mean swallowing a lot of pride and digging out skeletons DC wants to stay buried.
I think we have been over this. Your particular little segment of independent voters does not represent anything near what the military would consider the secondary, or even tertiary "target audience" for its recruitment efforts, as if they are as set in their very general, and politically backed anti-military views... well, nothing they can realistically say or do will dramatically change the amount of bang they will get from that group (letting you feel the satisfaction of having your bias confirmed by its very target is not considered the goal of recruitment efforts) so why would they bother. Many other Americans here have quite different opinions on the topic, according to mentioned cultural dividing lines and media preferences.
The right hates centralized government and mistrusts three letters agencies, with some believing they need abolition. There's further resentment and mistrust about the erosion of the middle class to enrich people who don't live in the US or its territories. This was disgraceful and a mistake. Those people are neither Americans by birth or service nor pledge and thus should never matter to any calculation of how to enrich American citizens beyond their existence as a means to achieve that end. Vietnam, like the cold war in general, was an excuse to enrich wealthy communists and bureaucratic state fanatics who pretended to be conservatives, their buddies in big pharma and Lockheed Martin. Thus viewed, the Vietnam war as a shameful act of national prostitution that severely harmed America's prosperity.

Conservatives are like "Foreign wars bad" and "deep state bad."

And Neocons think it was great.

The left hates the war because MUH OPPRESSED RICE FARMERS and other bullshit that doesn't matter.


The first two positions are incredibly based, even if the second one lacks nuance, and the last two are the positions of an idiot. Communist or Catholic, Rice farmers in Nam don't matter unless Americans can benefit from their farming. Their personal afflictions at the hands of communism are only relevant to America's interests because the French were disgusting frog monsters propping up regime after regime of drug lords. Our association with that was disgraceful.

Although I'll admit America missed a fine opportunity to use Nam as a gigantic dagger in China's back, given just how many Cheecoms they took out during that one abortive invasion, oh well.
Of course its politics. However may be just my in-detail interest of the topic, but very general sentiments about these kind of things from the conservative side are just non-serious and also, as such, vulnerable to arguments by neocons and the like. The problem with them is not wars in general, interventions, or lack of adoption of childish isolationist ideas.

The problem with modern interventionists is that even if they have a good point, the interventions they lead in practice include so many compromises with all sorts of money grifting parties, random naive idiots and tools, and worse yet, outright malicious, ideologically motivated parties who want them to fail spectacularly, that they possibly out-weight whatever value the plan may have had originally, if they don't limit it so much that success is logically excluded out of possible results.
And in case some success still appears, or just falls into their lap, they just ignore the opportunity, like the issue with China you mentioned - and then it happened again in 1991, with peace dividend instead of "one down, one to go", which has directly led to the current, far tougher situation with China.

So overall, the problem isn't that they are doing things, the problem is that they are doing things wrong, usually in ways that bring requiring major costs for limited, if any result.
 
I think we have been over this. Your particular little segment of independent voters does not represent anything near what the military would consider the secondary, or even tertiary "target audience" for its recruitment efforts, as if they are as set in their very general, and politically backed anti-military views... well, nothing they can realistically say or do will dramatically change the amount of bang they will get from that group (letting you feel the satisfaction of having your bias confirmed by its very target is not considered the goal of recruitment efforts) so why would they bother. Many other Americans here have quite different opinions on the topic, according to mentioned cultural dividing lines and media preferences.
If the dim views of Veitnam were so isolated and only part of such a small segment of the US, it would not get mentioned in an article like this as a recruiting concern.

I do not know how else to try to get it through to people like you, and others who want to dismiss the effect of Vietnam's continued legacy in problems with DoD recruiting, that this attitude is only counter-productive to modern social discourse and recruiting drives.

However I can take comfort that at least now the Secretary of the Army might actually understand that it is still an issue for recruiters, instead of try to ignore it as you suggest Marduk.
 
I think we have been over this. Your particular little segment of independent voters does not represent anything near what the military would consider the secondary, or even tertiary "target audience" for its recruitment efforts, as if they are as set in their very general, and politically backed anti-military views... well, nothing they can realistically say or do will dramatically change the amount of bang they will get from that group (letting you feel the satisfaction of having your bias confirmed by its very target is not considered the goal of recruitment efforts) so why would they bother. Many other Americans here have quite different opinions on the topic, according to mentioned cultural dividing lines and media preferences.
.

This is called a cope.

My position is mainstream, sorry if that makes you fear the eventual dissolution of NATO, but the evils of the cold war have to be put to bed sooner or later.

"Childish isolation ideals" top kek.

Edit- anywhere we intervene we should Mongol Imperial tactics like a proper Empire ought to.

Which includes strip mining whatever nation we enter and redirect all of that wealth to the American citizens, leaving everyone else secondary concerns.

If we are to do this bullshit, then we need to do it right.

Fuck any sophistry or idealism. Either this is done the old way or it isn't done at all.
 
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agreed.

Its time to take care of problems at home.

Can't have a nation if everyone who runs that nation on almost every level is a domestic enemy of that nation.

Can't save allies and establish "liberal democracies" ( re horseshit criminal cartels who launder money for international gangsters and pedos) if we can't even save ourselves.
 
This is called a cope.

My position is mainstream, sorry if that makes you fear the eventual dissolution of NATO, but the evils of the cold war have to be put to bed sooner or later.

"Childish isolation ideals" top kek.

Edit- anywhere we intervene we should Mongol Imperial tactics like a proper Empire ought to.

Which includes strip mining whatever nation we enter and redirect all of that wealth to the American citizens, leaving everyone else secondary concerns.

If we are to do this bullshit, then we need to do it right.

Fuck any sophistry or idealism. Either this is done the old way or it isn't done at all.
Need i remind you how popular the Mongols were as neighbors, allies and trade partners?
From one silly extreme to another. Why can't people have reasonable positions anymore?
If the dim views of Veitnam were so isolated and only part of such a small segment of the US, it would not get mentioned in an article like this as a recruiting concern.
There are different kinds of dim views, varying in dimness and reasoning behind them, sometimes greatly. Some of them the military might address within realms of reason, and the others... that's a job for political talking heads to address, if not a lost cause. not the military.
I do not know how else to try to get it through to people like you, and others who want to dismiss the effect of Vietnam's continued legacy in problems with DoD recruiting, that this attitude is only counter-productive to modern social discourse and recruiting drives.
For starters, you could stop speaking in generalities and get into specifics of what are these problems and then we could talk which are things a functioning modern military can realistically do something about without insane cost or compromising the function, and which are problems that may be addressed in no way other than by writing a fat check (or a hundred) to Hollywood&company and waiting a couple decades, though that may not even work anymore since that place is crawling with leftists more than it usually was and they are part of the problem to begin with.
However I can take comfort that at least now the Secretary of the Army might actually understand that it is still an issue for recruiters, instead of try to ignore it as you suggest Marduk.
I doubt she thinks the issue is exactly the same thing you think is the issue.
 
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Need i remind you how popular the Mongols were as neighbors, allies and trade partners?
From one silly extreme to another. Why can't people have reasonable positions anymore?

There are different kinds of dim views, varying in dimness and reasoning behind them, sometimes greatly. Some of them the military might address within realms of reason, and the others... that's a job for political talking heads to address, if not a lost cause. not the military.

For starters, you could stop speaking in generalities and get into specifics of what are these problems and then we could talk which are things a functioning modern military can realistically do something about without insane cost or compromising the function, and which are problems that may be at addressed in no way other than by writing a fat check to Hollywood&company and waiting a few decades, though that may not even work anymore since that place is crawling with leftists more than it usually was and they are part of the problem to begin with.

I doubt he thinks the issue is exactly the same thing you think is the issue.
The Secretary of the Army is a woman; did you even read the blasted article?
 
The Secretary of the Army is a woman; did you even read the blasted article?
Sorry, but that was yesterday and i was focusing on other kinds of details, and if that gotcha is all the argument you have, perhaps it's about time to rethink your position.
 
Sorry, but that was yesterday and i was focusing on other kinds of details, and if that gotcha is all the argument you have, perhaps it's about time to rethink your position.
No, it just left me wondering (not for the first time) how much you actually read from the article itself, and how much of this has been you arguing against me based on my positions without the additional context factored in.
 
Well lets see, two direct recruiting attempts.

One when I just got out of college, and was working in a deli and had three guys in uniform come into to get groceries and try to recruit me while I was prepping meat for sandwiches. Oddly, my manager was an Army mom, and she told them to stop poaching her skeleton crew.

One last year where I was cold texted by some recruiter who's intel/coordination officer's updates were so bad they thought I was still in college. Completely ignored that, despite repeated attempt at 'Hey we have this dicord, hey we have this chatroom, hey here are these links to materials you might like (because you aren't reply to my cold texts)'. Almost texted back his intel officer had outdated info, but decided not to, didn't want to show any interest or interaction from my end.

Multiple extended family in the Air Force at officer and enlisted level, mostly retired or medically discharged now, and merchant marines and USAAF in my grandparents generation, and on odd Marine or Airman out in the 3rd cousins.

And that's not counting stories from the disgruntled vets I worked along side in the CO legal cannabis industry.

Veitnam was DC turning it's back on it's own citizens to help France try to keep their colony, the media just told facts about it that the DoD would have preferred not gone public, and the public did not owe the troops 'support' for an unpopular and unjust war.

And yet in the article itself, the Secretary of the Army herself said Veitnam views and issues with it still persist among adults who are raising and teaching the youth the military wants to recruit, and still have power to turn off recruits.

That doesn't sound like Veitnam is nearly as irrelevant and out of the recruiting picture as the military would like, and the military is going to have to deal with the fact the Veitnam legacy isn't going away, just because they are aiming to recruit people to young to remember it.
Okay. Let me put it this way. I am going off the plenty of fresh out if highschoolers I work woth, and comparing it to those college grads I work woth.
The former have a better time then the later because they take advantage.

and i can tell you about Vietnam setimebt isnt as wide spread. No one in the military cares. My parents for onstance, were alive but children during Vietnam.
my grandfather almost derved then.
Most teachers are not in thier 70s or 80s. The ones who truly remeber Vietnam. The ones teaching are younger and are getting information from the bias they had in the past.

if you sre taught the hatred you will have the hatred
You know, I got my DD-214 so I don't actually need to go into this. I'm glad you've found a happy balance in the service.

That doesn't change the reality on the ground, people are not volunteering for military service at the required amount, and the retention rates for trained service personnel are atrocious.

Something is clearly wrong.
Don't get me wrong, there is plenty wrong.
I am just making the argument for why 18 year Olds would benefit from joining the military.
Then again, I have a chief and an NCOIC who joined in the late 90s early 2000s who have enjoyed thier nearly 20 and full 20 years.
 
No, it just left me wondering (not for the first time) how much you actually read from the article itself, and how much of this has been you arguing against me based on my positions without the additional context factored in.
I've just asked you what you think the problems are specifically, as something as general as "legacy of Vietnam" can mean a dozen different things to a dozen different people each, and i was already over the very political nature of what was mentioned in the article and generally not Vietnam related anyway.
 
Okay. Let me put it this way. I am going off the plenty of fresh out if highschoolers I work woth, and comparing it to those college grads I work woth.
The former have a better time then the later because they take advantage.

and i can tell you about Vietnam setimebt isnt as wide spread. No one in the military cares. My parents for onstance, were alive but children during Vietnam.
my grandfather almost derved then.
Most teachers are not in thier 70s or 80s. The ones who truly remeber Vietnam. The ones teaching are younger and are getting information from the bias they had in the past.

if you sre taught the hatred you will have the hatred

Don't get me wrong, there is plenty wrong.
I am just making the argument for why 18 year Olds would benefit from joining the military.
Then again, I have a chief and an NCOIC who joined in the late 90s early 2000s who have enjoyed thier nearly 20 and full 20 years.
You completely discount the Veitnam vets/their families who turned against the DoD's narrative or what the DoD/intel groups did to hide their chemical warfare side-effects on troops; Agent Orange ring a fucking bell. You think that has no bearing on how people are taught about Veitnam? People are still living with the effects of that shit to this day.

Because the legacy of Agent Orange is very alive and well in modern culture, even if the DoD likes to ignore it for the sake of the intel agencies public perception. Having to fight for decades to get the US to admit what it had done, and what continues to still affect people in the US and in the warzone's where it was used, is why Veitnam's legacy still haunts DoD recruiting, and the DoD does not want to address it. Same with the fucking burn pits, or poisoned/contaminated water at bases.
I've just asked you what you think the problems are specifically, as something as general as "legacy of Vietnam" can mean a dozen different things to a dozen different people each, and i was already over the very political nature of what was mentioned in the article and generally not Vietnam related anyway.
Eating some humble pie with regards to Veterans Affairs actions, things like Agent Orange, actually admitting that the war is not something to be talked about positively anymore except in that it ended or excused away as 'taking orders' (hello Nuremberg), and being willing to admit the political nature of why Veitnam became so bad was not something the military leadership was innocent in either.

Till the US military learn to take it's lumps over and eat some crow over Veitnam and not try to defend it, it will keep making the same PR mistakes that are why it still affects recruiting.
 

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