United States US presidential election 2024

[Grimalkin]

What democracy? If the enemy literally removes your candidates from the ballots there is no democracy.

You can be a graceful loser.

Honestly it's better to 'lose' than to 'win' by becoming your opponent. If your opponent throws morality out of the window you shouldn't respond by following in his footsteps and throwing yours out the window too.

Or you can present an ultimatum, retaliate in kind. And say that if they want their guys back on your ballet then they need to add your guys back to their ballot.

My definition of victory does not include lowering yourself to the level of your opponents, it'd be better if the candidates removed themselves entirely from Colorado's ballot rather than engaging in some stupid game of tit-for-tat.

 

[Skallagrim]

No, they really shouldn't, some things are worse than losing and following your enemy in throwing all pretences of democracy and decency out the window is one of those things. The moral choice would be for the rest of the republican candidates to remove themselves from the Colorado ballot in solidarity.

The fact that the other candidates haven't already followed suit just goes to show how far the Republican party has fallen.

In escalating cultural conflicts -- and what we see here is merely the political facet of a cultural conflict -- the universal rule is that the least tolerant and most ruthless side wins. If you try to be the "good guy", you lose, because you limit yourself, while the enemy is not so constrained, and will in fact exploit your self-inflicted weaknesses.

Backing down isn't an option. This isn't honourable or ritualised combat, where backing down is a way of de-escalating. If you back down, you get pounced on, and you get your throat ripped out.

 

[Grimalkin]

In escalating cultural conflicts -- and what we see here is merely the political facet of a cultural conflict -- the universal rule is that the least tolerant and most ruthless side wins. If you try to be the "good guy", you lose, because you limit yourself, while the enemy is not so constrained, and will in fact exploit your self-inflicted weaknesses.

If you merely try to mindlessly be the good guy then yes you'd lose. A balance must be struck between the two, because if you just mindlessly race your opponent to the bottom you still fucking lose simply because your opponent will always be willing to sink lower.

Backing down isn't an option. This isn't honourable or ritualised combat, where backing down is a way of de-escalating. If you back down, you get pounced on, and you get your throat ripped out.

I'm not advocating that you back down, I'm advocating that you completely ostracize Colorado from the Republican ballot. Instead of half-heartedly remaining on a ballot that barely even matters you should instead blow the entire issue up, talk about it more and more, put a goddamn magnifying glass on the thing.

Emphasize how far the Democrat party has fallen, how unelected bureaucrats are now deciding who you can or cannot vote for.

The impact of there being no Republican primaries in Colorado would be much bigger than the impact of some tit-for-tat game of each party removing candidates from primary ballots in their respective states.

 

[Abhorsen]

In escalating cultural conflicts -- and what we see here is merely the political facet of a cultural conflict -- the universal rule is that the least tolerant and most ruthless side wins. If you try to be the "good guy", you lose, because you limit yourself, while the enemy is not so constrained, and will in fact exploit your self-inflicted weaknesses.

Backing down isn't an option. This isn't honourable or ritualised combat, where backing down is a way of de-escalating. If you back down, you get pounced on, and you get your throat ripped out.

The issue is that winning that way doesn't actually get you anything worth fighting for.

Fighting the democrats on their own terms is what the Republicans have been doing for decades, and it's losing. Vivek, by contrast, is advocating for going backwards towards freedom instead of the speedlimit towards communism, unlike the rest of the Rs. Trump at least promises putting on the breaks.

You don't need to fight dirtier to beat the Dems, you need to stop playing their game. Actively destroy government power. It's the only thing Klaus Schwab fears.

 

[Skallagrim]

The issue is that winning that way doesn't actually get you anything worth fighting for.

Fighting the democrats on their own terms is what the Republicans have been doing for decades, and it's losing. Vivek, by contrast, is advocating for going backwards towards freedom instead of the speedlimit towards communism, unlike the rest of the Rs. Trump at least promises putting on the breaks.

You don't need to fight dirtier to beat the Dems, you need to stop playing their game. Actively destroy government power. It's the only thing Klaus Schwab fears.

Believing that "democracy and decency" still exist is "playing their game".

Don't be the good guy. There are no good guys in a fight to the knife. At the end of the day, you have to be the one standing, and the enemy has to be the one dead on the floor. where you stab him doesn't matter. Whether it was a fair move doesn't matter. Whether it was honourable doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters is that you live, and he dies.

 

[Bacle]

Honestly it's better to 'lose' than to 'win' by becoming your opponent. If your opponent throws morality out of the window you should respond by following in his footsteps and throwing yours out the window too.

My definition of victory does not include lowering yourself to the level of your opponents, it'd be better if the candidates removed themselves entirely from Colorado's ballot rather than engaging in some stupid game of tit-for-tat.

"Ask a trillion dead souls if honor matters. The silence is your answer." Javik, ME3.

Still holds true to IRL politics, where honor doesn't matter, only PR and lawfare. Progressives might not be the Reapers, but they aren't that far off either.

 

[Bacle]

The issue is that winning that way doesn't actually get you anything worth fighting for.

Fighting the democrats on their own terms is what the Republicans have been doing for decades, and it's losing. Vivek, by contrast, is advocating for going backwards towards freedom instead of the speedlimit towards communism, unlike the rest of the Rs. Trump at least promises putting on the breaks.

You don't need to fight dirtier to beat the Dems, you need to stop playing their game. Actively destroy government power. It's the only thing Klaus Schwab fears.

Nice to know you support Vivek's stupid death tax that will gut the ability to leave anything behind to your kids.

 

[mrttao]

Honestly it's better to 'lose' than to 'win' by becoming your opponent.

This is as ridiculous as saying that shooting a home invader is the same as a home invader shooting you.
You are not "becoming your opponent".

You are showing your willingness to fight eye for an eye and remind them they have something to lose.
If we just let them get away with it in one state, dozens will follow

 

[Bacle]

Why does this not surprise me; after how the RNC/Trump acted around donations, I don't doubt they want the youth's money, but not to actually have to deal with their political opinions or active engagement in a serious manner.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Nice to know you support Vivek's stupid death tax that will gut the ability to leave anything behind to your kids.

Do you mean anything in excess of 13/26 million dollars, or does he really propose to eliminate that exemption?

 

[Blasterbot]

Do you mean anything in excess of 13/26 million dollars, or does he really propose to eliminate that exemption?

That might be his least good policy. that said I don't remember the specifics so looking at it he said he supports a single digit flat rate on the estate tax. would need to see more on it but the knee jerk reaction is I don't like it. still he was bound to have a bad policy somewhere and that isn't the worst thing if he got it and half of what else he said he would do I would say we came out way ahead there.

 

[Abhorsen]

Believing that "democracy and decency" still exist is "playing their game".

Don't be the good guy. There are no good guys in a fight to the knife. At the end of the day, you have to be the one standing, and the enemy has to be the one dead on the floor. where you stab him doesn't matter. Whether it was a fair move doesn't matter. Whether it was honourable doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters is that you live, and he dies.

Lol. No, you are playing into the communists hands. They want violence.

The US defeated the USSR by not sinking to their level. Dems are losing because people can just look at California and see. Acting like Dem's just means they get a choice between California and NYC.



As a side note, I'm laughing at Trump maybe nominating Haley as VP. If he does, I don't think I'll stop laughing. Haley as VP is really Haley as Prez, cause they will kick out Trump.

 

[Rocinante]

Lol. No, you are playing into the communists hands. They want violence.

The US defeated the USSR by not sinking to their level. Dems are losing because people can just look at California and see. Acting like Dem's just means they get a choice between California and NYC.



As a side note, I'm laughing at Trump maybe nominating Haley as VP. If he does, I don't think I'll stop laughing. Haley as VP is really Haley as Prez, cause they will kick out Trump.

They will certainly eliminate Trump one way or another if he runs with Haley as VP.

His smartest choice is probably DeSantis if those two will get along after this campaign.

Maybe Vivek, who aside from his death tax thing, is my favorite candidate. But I don't see him doing it at all.

 

[Abhorsen]

They will certainly eliminate Trump one way or another if he runs with Haley as VP.

His smartest choice is probably DeSantis if those two will get along after this campaign.

Maybe Vivek, who aside from his death tax thing, is my favorite candidate. But I don't see him doing it at all.

I'm hoping not Carlson. I like a lot of what he says, but at heart he is a socialist, as I've said before.

 

[Rocinante]

I'm hoping not Carlson. I like a lot of what he says, but at heart he is a socialist, as I've said before.

I like Carlson as a media personality, but yeah not so sure on him as a VP.

 

[Skallagrim]

Lol. No, you are playing into the communists hands. They want violence.

The US defeated the USSR by not sinking to their level. Dems are losing because people can just look at California and see. Acting like Dem's just means they get a choice between California and NYC.

I'm afraid you're completely missing the point, because your assumptions about the situation are fundamentally wrong.

Yes, they want violence. And they'll have it. They'll have it if you "don't sink to their level", which is specifically and most exactly what they want, because it's by far the easiest to inflict violence on a suicidal idiot who won't fight back. They'll have it, regardless of your choices. They'll have it, because it's what they know. They'll have it, because they're blocking every other avenue.

They'll have violence, because your assumption of "we'll be better and the people will see them for what they are" is worthless. It's worthless because they've stopped caring what the people think. It's worthless because there will never be a fair election again. It's worthless because they've moved on to igoring votes they don't like. It's worthless because from now on, even if the majority wants them gone, they won't go.

And it's worthless because even if they have, for a time, to pretend that they still care, it still won't change anything. Even if Trump is elected, they'll kneecap all his efforts, and if that fails, they'll get rid of him. By lawfare if possible, by a bullet if needed. And yes, they'll have a Haley standing by for that scenario. My friend, they have thousands like her, in every level of the governmental structure.

You are completely wrong about the essence of the situation, because you still think violence can be avoided. That we can be "better". But it's too late for that. The violence will be done. To you, or by you.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

The willingness with which Americans want to butcher or crush each other on account of something as fucking stupid as politics…it’s a disheartening thing. Acting in your own defence, because your hand was forced is one thing, but the gleeful eagerness of people on both sides…Christ, what is the world coming to?

I say this as an Englishman who has similar problems in his own homeland.

 

[mrttao]

The willingness with which Americans want to butcher or crush each other on account of something as fucking stupid as politics…it’s a disheartening thing. Acting in your own defence, because your hand was forced is one thing, but the gleeful eagerness of people on both sides…Christ, what is the world coming to?

I say this as an Englishman who has similar problems in his own homeland.

> Just politics

It is not "just politics".
The woke cultist literally want every last one of us killed.
Because they are mindless NPCs and an easily wielded weapon in the hand of the oligarchs.

Not wanting to be killed is not "just politics"

> Both sides

All my eye rolls.
Because apparently recognizing that the enemy wants you dead and is coming for you is "gleeful desire to butcher"

 

[Bacle]

They will certainly eliminate Trump one way or another if he runs with Haley as VP.

His smartest choice is probably DeSantis if those two will get along after this campaign.

Maybe Vivek, who aside from his death tax thing, is my favorite candidate. But I don't see him doing it at all.

If Trump wants someone as VP that will make people scared to get rid of him, they need to be even dangerous to the Dems than Trump is.

To that end, I think Tim Scott would be the best VP pick. Also will get him name recognition and experience in the Executive Branch for running in 2028.

 

[Rocinante]

The willingness with which Americans want to butcher or crush each other on account of something as fucking stupid as politics…it’s a disheartening thing. Acting in your own defence, because your hand was forced is one thing, but the gleeful eagerness of people on both sides…Christ, what is the world coming to?

I say this as an Englishman who has similar problems in his own homeland.

Look, I'm not one of the ones advocating or encouraging violence.

But saying it's just stupid politics is utterly ridiculous.

A decade or two back when it seemed mostly that our political side had similar goals but with different ways to get there, that might make more sense.

The stakes are much higher these days. One party is actively harmful and malicious, is trying to destroy free speech and is literally removing opponents from ballots.

The stakes are much, much higher. It's an existential issue at this point.

It's not just stupid politics. It's the future of the country and how you can live your life.