Ixian
Well-known member
Alternatively, just increase dakka until it's impossible to not hit anything at range.
Warhammer Warhammer General discussion thread: Now with 100% more Space Marines
- Thread starter Battlegrinder
- Start date
Alternatively, just increase dakka until it's impossible to not hit anything at range.
The box set should have instructions to assemble them, the main advice I have is to be careful when gluing them together, you don'twant to overdue it, and make sure you have the right tools. You'll need clipper, a mold line remover, and probably some files and green stuff. Any game store will have that stuff.
I can't help much about paint, I don't play orks and paint my stuff in a totally different style, but if you check around at whatever store or club you plan to play at, I'm certain there's someone there that will help. The one thing I can say is that it's not nearly as hard as you think it is, and that even if your first few models don't come out right, you will get better with time and practice. Here's where I've gone just over the past couple years, from my first model to one of my latest:
Yeah, that first one looks rough, but it's more than good enough (remember, even a poor paint job will look fine from 2 feet away when it's on the table), and some basic tricks really helped me improve. It'll be the sane for you.
As for playing, that will depend on what you have. What units were in the start collecting box?
Last edited:
Box says 1 painboy, 5 nobz, 10 boyz, 1 boss nob, 1 ammo runt, and one deff dread
Ixian
Well-known member
I don't play Orks, but I think you'll need another squad of boyz to make a legal army. Unless Nobz are a troop choice and not an elite.
Ok, so that's the new box. That's a very small force, but playable. I don't know if the models in the box are can be assembled in multiple ways or if you can only build them as shown on the box. I think it's the former but I'll assume the later.
Boyz are your troops, they're the only ones that can claim objectives, but you probably won't be playing objectives in a match this small. The ones in the box are mostly but for close combat with melee weapons and pistols, with a few guys with bigger guns mixed in, and the sqaud leader has a power claw, which is a very strong melee weapon that take out even very tough targets. They can throw out a lot of decently hard hits if you get them into melee, but they have poor armor penetration and depend on a high volume of attacks to kill things. They're fairly tough, but have poor armor, so if they get hit by something strong enough to wound them, they won't stand up well. They're rip through guardsman or equivalents, but vs a squad of space marines....they might win, but it'll be bloody.
Because they're something of a glass cannon, you'll want to get them into close combat as quickly as possible to make the best use of their strength. Whatever you do, do not let the enemy charge you, you will have a hard time winning a slugging match against enemy units that are capable close combatants if they get the charge first (IE, space marines, hormagaunts, other orks, etc). You will just flat out lose to dedicated close combat infantry (assault marines, genestealers) if they charge you. You'll probably lose anyway, but if they charge you you're almost certainly going to get wiped out before you can even hit back (on the plus side, those are relatively elite troops, in a small game you either won't see them, or will see them in very small numbers).
The first thing you'll need to do is buy more of these guys. Orks almost always want to be in big groups, because they get various bonuses for larger squads and have better moral. For Boyz, you get an extra attack when you have 20 or more, and you're functionally immune to moral problems as long as you have more than....15 or so.
Nobz are bigger, tougher orks, both lorewise and rulewise. You can't bring nearly as many of them, but they hit a lot harder. The ones in the beginner box look like they'll be your best big for fighting bigger, tougher foes. As built on the box, I'd say they have decent odds to big down most vehicles or mid tier elite units, but will struggle against the top tier stuff (rule of thumb is that they can take on any space marines that's not carrying a shield or wearing a robe. If they have both robes and shields, don't even bother).A painboy is a decent support unit, will make nearby infantry a bit tougher, but given the volume of attacks that tend to be thrown around in 8th and 9th edition, he's not that much of a force multiplier, particularly not with the unit sizes you have.
Deff Dreads are very dangerous if they can get into close combat. However, everyone knows this and will do thier best to kill it before it can do that, so don't count on this one doing all that much damage. put it somewhere were it will draw fire away from the stuff you're actually aiming to kill stuff with.
You'll also need to buy an HQ unit to have a legal army. I think a warboss with a power claw and kustom shoota is one of the more popular choices. GW doesn't sell a warboss like this on it's own, you'll need to either buy a box of nobz and convert one, or buy a third party model (most stores will be ok with this, but check first). Artel W and Kromlech are two of the bigger names in 3rd party ork bits if you decide to go that route.
It's almost a legal army, he needs an HQ to make a patrol detachment.
Last edited:
Alright. As part of my New Year's resolution, I decided to start building my own Necron army. For that I wanted to know:
What do I need to start a minimal size army, like 500 points? A Necron Overlord, two Necron Warrior troops, one Necron Immortal troop, and one Tomb Blade squad, correct?
I already have a color-scheme in mind, blue, white, and silver, atypical as that might be for the necrons.
EDIT: Also, what else is required to start painting?
What do I need to start a minimal size army, like 500 points? A Necron Overlord, two Necron Warrior troops, one Necron Immortal troop, and one Tomb Blade squad, correct?
I already have a color-scheme in mind, blue, white, and silver, atypical as that might be for the necrons.
EDIT: Also, what else is required to start painting?
Ixian
Well-known member
You can't go wrong with a good file and hobby knife for model assembly.
If you plan on basing, than it may be better to do that before attaching the models.
Glue type is also a consideration. I prefer a thicker hobby glue, but some people swear by the thin stuff.
I like the thin stuff, easier to apply and dries quick enough, and can be easy to remove if you fuck up. I had to do that at least once or twice for me figures
I'm not familiar with necron point costs, but as for unit composition, the "two troops and an HQ" rule is a rule of thumb, not a rule of...ruleness. In 8th and 9th edition, army composition is governed by detachments, the smallest of which, the patrol detachment, requires one HQ and one troop.
For painting materials all you need is paints, brushes, and some sort of palette. I'd suggest adding in a GW painting handle and some brush cleaner instead of using just water. I'd also suggest you get something, anything non-GW to practice with, GW models are expensive enough you don't want to waste them as a test model (unless your local store has a pile of the easy build practice models they released with the launch of contrast paint, some stores have piles of them that they give out for free).
For painting knowledge, there's a couple things (as I've said before, you should ask people at whatever store you're playing at, in my experience they're generally happy to help new people learn).
1. Get the Citadel Paint app, it's an amazingly helpful tool to help you pick color schemes and create the look you're looking for.
2. The first step in painting is priming. This is to give the paint something to 'stick' to. There are three colors of primer most paints use, white, grey, and black. The color of the primer will influence the look of the base paint of the model, with grey being the most neutral and white or black lightening/darkening the base layer. Experiment with different combinations to find the look you want. You don't need fancy primer for this, the normal stuff you get at Walmart will typically be fine (though the consistency can vary between cans for some reason. I had a whole can of black that came out much more matte than it was supposed to one time, which was annoying). I've found a flat primer to be more useful than gloss or matte. Most other steps can be skipped or only applied in certain areas for certain effects, but every model will always need a coat of primer.
Be very careful when priming a lot of models at once, I once ruined a bunch of models because the overspray from the one I was priming drifted over onto the ones I'd already done, and it built up a big, thick, bumpy layer. I'm still working on stripping the excess primer.
3. There are two kinds of paints, acrylic and enamel. Citadel and similar wargame paints are acrylic, while more traditional model paints like testors are enamel. They're generally interchangeable, with a few key differences.
Acrylic paints are generally a bit easier to control because you can water them down (in fact, you pretty much need to do so), but can take a few coats to build up the color properly. This is where the 40k "THIN YOUR PAINTS" and "Two Thin Coats" memes come from. You can also mix them together to create different colors and certain effects (eyes and power weapons being two of the more well known examples).
Enamel is a bit trickery to work with in general (it's effectively impossible to thin down, and has a bad habit of separating so you have to shake and mix it up again every time you use it), but gets a much better color in one coat, and doesn't show brush strokes the way that acrylic is prone to doing. I've also found it's better for dry brushing and some metallic colors (silver being one of them). It's also very hard on brushes.
There's also GW's new contrast line, which is billed as a one and done paint and wash assembly (more on that later), which is correct. It's very useful for painting large parts of a model all at once, or certain niche applications (I use contrast to make a quick and easy glow effect on plasma weapons), but it's not very good at repairing mistakes if you're painting with other types of paint over top if it and spill paint onto the contrast coated area (which you will do), you have to cover the area in regular paint and then a second coat of contrast.
There's also washes, which are often applied as a or semi final step in painting an area. A wash is a very, very thin layer of paint that sinks into recessed areas of the model to create depth, and also shifts the color of a surface layer a bit. Nuln Oil is a general purpose wash sold by GW that's useful in nearly every application.
4. There are four main painting techinques. The normal, dip-brush-into-paint-and-drag-arcoss-model way, which is self explanatory. There's also dry brushing, which is where you dip a brush in paint, wipe most of the paint off, and then brush it over the model. This creates incomplete coverage, which is useful for a number of purposes. I use it to create a burnished/worn metallic look. It'll take a bit of time to get used to doing this correctly.
After that, there's something called highlighting, which is painting thin lines on the edges of a model in a lighter shade than the rest of it. Traditionally it's used to create the impression of light striking the area and make it look more real. Highlighting is almost always the very last step of painting, washing highlights is often self-defeating. The most complicated method of doing this involves lots of careful planning and positioning so that it looks like the light is striking the model from a particular direction or angle, but a more common method is to just highlight everything (or nearly everything), which has the effect of really bringing out the detail in the model (this is called the 'Eavy Metal style, after GW's internal painting studio which uses this method).
And then there's airbrushing. I don't know how to do that, but it might be worth looking into. It's great at blending colors and creating a very clean, even layer.
5. Certain colors are difficult to paint. Black and white are two of them, because you generally won't want to actually have an area be black or white because then you can't shade or highlight it it, you've already made it as dark/bright as possible, there's no way to create contrast. The typical method is to instead use a very dark/light shade of grey, and then use even more extreme shades of grey to shade most of the area, with black and white only being used in small qualities in the darkest, lightest areas. I don't care to do this most of the time, but have a tip for black. Just use a layer of normal black paint, and then wash with drakenof nightshade, this will create a more shadowly, inky black look (will attach photo later).
6. After painting, there's also varnish/clearcoat/hardcoat (for reasons unknown, different branches of the hobby refer to it by different names). Whatever you call it, it's the process of spraying or painting a hard, clear coat of stuff over the model to protect the final paint job. This can also change the final look of the model depending on how you do it. This isn't mandatory, unless you use metal models, in which case it's absolutely required to prevent the paint from chipping. However, it can also be environmentally sensitive, never clear coat when it's humid out or the model will come up looking frosted.
Let's look at some of my models and how I paint them, for an example of this works in practice.
This is one of my battletech models, custom built.
1. Black primer
2. Paint kantor blue over most of model.
3. Paint cockpit panels lothern blue.
4. Wash entire model in drakenhof nightshade.
5. paint untouched areas with several layers of fireslayer orange, needs several extra layers to build up the color because of the black base. Edit: nowadays I use a base layer of jokareo orange with fireplace on top. Sane finally look, much faster, far fewer layers.
6. paint gun barrels and other small details skavenblight dirge.
7. paint muzzles and other details with leadblecher.
8. touch up.
9. Finally, apply a layer of gloss clearcoat, followed by a layer of matte clearcoat after the glass has dried (or maybe it's the other way round, I have to write that down because I can never keep it straight. This protects the base paint, brightens it up a bit, and makes it look smooth and sleak without being too shiny. It's also sort of a way to highlight the model without actually highlighting it. I hate highlighting.
This takes about 3 days to do, counting the time spent.
That was the easy one.
This a primaris space marine devastator. I made him before all marines got 2 wounds, so I'm claiming credit for the idea of a 2 wound devastator and no one can stop me. It's a long process.
1. Black primer.
2. Base layer of Caliban green.
3. drybrush a layer of testor steel enamel.
4. paint shoulders, back of power pack, and other assorted bits with retributor armor.
Paint edge of pads, kneepads, cables, belt, chestplate, joints, and insignia black.
5. paint main body of gun in skavenbright dirge.
6. paint barrel, rear, and ammo feed silver.
7. paint lothern blue on vistor.
8. paint edge of visor with thin line of kantor blue.
9. Paint any pounches with knight questor flesh.
10. Apply single coat of caliban green to top of backpack, thigh pads, and the raised elements of helmet.
11. Apply layer of dark angel green over the caliban green.
12. paint the sensor on the helmet red.
13. touch up all the mistakes. There's always a load.
15. Wash the entire model with a coat of nuln oil.
Painting a squad of marines like this takes up to a week, depending on how complicated the model is and how large the squad is.
Regarding the problem of painting white, this is what happens with you just use a single layer of white without shading (and also with some sorta dodgy lighting. Photography is not my strong suit):
I spent several days trying to get more traditionally techniques to work, and it just didn't, either because I didn't like the final effect, or it required too many layers and got too thick and started ruining the detail. So I gave up and just started using very watered down white and slowly building up the color.
For your specific army necrons are famously easy to paint, with most models needing little more than a drybrush, a wash, and some detail on the eyes and other bits. Of course, that was with the old style green plastic tube necrons, the new ones probably require a bit more work.
Last edited:
Tyzuris
Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
Since it appears to be so that the return of all the living loyalist Primarchs is inevitable, how do you guys see the dynamics of the Imperium and the setting in general change as El'Johnson, Khan, Russ, (Dorn as his status of being alive is kind of ambigious as the circumstances of his disappearance were retconned from his corpse being recovered to only his fist being found and recovered by the Fists), Vulkan and Corax coming back?
Buba
A total creep
I had, in 3/4th edition:
- Bad Moon Orks;
- Adepta Sororitas (sometimes played using CSM rules from the 2nd 3rd ed Codex - a two CCW MoK Dreadnaught with 9 attacks when charging is fun
);- SM Salamanders (for the cheap Terminators under the 2nd 3rd ed Codex);
- SM Deathwing (for the 100% Terminators; I don't care about the creepy DA);
- a squad of Grey Knights for that S6 at I4 (or was it 5?) - spot the munchkin
.I dropped out in 5th edition when the game went Herohammer.
In 4/5th ed WFB I collected Dark Elves, dropped out when Allesio Cavatore's Armybooks killed any semblance of game balance in 6th.
I also am a Warhammer RPG player/MG, Retired.
As far as I am concerned the lore is frozen as of 4th ed WH40, 5th ed WFB, and I follow a headcanon mix of 1st and 2nd ed WFRPG. I don't care about what came later.
Last edited:
Not significantly. Roboute was the most likely to change things, and while he's tried, he's made precious little headway. The imperium is just too big and too full of entrenched interests for "I'm a Primarch" or even "I'm the Emperor's Regent" to get things done.
Tyzuris
Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
I bet Lion would destabilize things for Guilliman; he would take it quite badly that Guilliman broke his legion up. He would probably call all Dark Angels successors to the Rock and inform them that they're all Dark Angels now and reforge the 1st Legion.
Which would probably be a good thing. When a full-on Chaos Legion invades, it makes it easier to counter them when one can just send a ready legion against them rather than kitbashing XX(X) number of Chapters together for an ad-hoc legion with a command structure that requires also construction on the fly.
Lion would make a great Warmaster and a loyal one at that as long as he also met the Emperor personally and the Emperor told him Guilliman is the Emperor Regent.
I'm not sure how he'd react, though him trying to reform the dark angels legion would be hilarious.
Azrael: "Wait, did he just say what he thought he said?"
Belial: "Yes."
Azrael: "Damn. So, uh, how should we handle this? Think he'll buy it if I tell him we managed it overnight?"
Belial: "Really? You think we can say the reforming the legion was an overnight job? How did you get this job if you're that awful of a liar?"
Azrael: "I'm out of my depth here, usually I have to lie about the exact opposite of this. I don't see you offering suggestions!"
Tyzuris
Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
It would be interesting to see loyalist version of World Eaters with loyal Angron and no Butcher's Nails involved. Maybe the Emperor would have helped him win the battles against his oppressors with the 12th and find him before the nails were put in.
Considering how Angron in those rare calm moments could be pretty bro-like with his legion and had a sense of brotherhood within his legion and resented any hierarchies and was quite egalitarian, it would be interesting to see a loyal Angron lead loyal Warhounds who weren't such berserkers.
Considering how Angron in those rare calm moments could be pretty bro-like with his legion and had a sense of brotherhood within his legion and resented any hierarchies and was quite egalitarian, it would be interesting to see a loyal Angron lead loyal Warhounds who weren't such berserkers.
So if anyone here is interested in a very good warhammer fantasy quest, the MC of Divided Loyalties just joined up with the first dwarven expedition towards Karag Dum, taking with her some other loyal Imperial wizards of various colleges, including Magister Egrimm von Horstmann, who we all know is very loyal and not traitorous at all, and aren't we lucky to have a light Magister with us in the Chaos Wastes.
Interesting. I want to know more
It's definitely my favorite quest. The QM is amazing, and updates quite quickly, with the occasional expedition splitting up turns, and it's been going on for a long while. The expedition to Karag Dum is just the latest expedition. We've been on a few. But some very good highlights of the quest with only minor spoilers:
First, it's a clear play on a CKII quest. Instead of being the lord, you are an advisor. The QM basically wondered why should the advisor always just be a benefit, and not have any agency of their own. And thus there is zero obligation OoC to be a loyal advisor (though we generally have been, it is quite clear we could decide not to). For just one example is our embezzling of funds from our very first employer. The quest title is very much a part of this, as the QM occasionally but consistently has us end up in situations where our various loyalties come into conflict.
Even worse, we play as a Grey Wizard, and so are always a little untrustworthy, and never trust anyone, with the more innocent they appear, the less trustworthy we think they are. Except Egrimm, IC we've got no reason not to trust him (though it's pretty new, we're only known him a few weeks), and somehow he hasn't set off our grey wizard senses yet.
Second, the QM has a deep knowledge of the setting, and from this, we have been able to make meaningful discoveries that are very lore friendly, despite not being canon they don't stick out at all. This ties into us being a Wizard and doing research. There has been some absolutely amazing world building of the Dwarves especially.
Third, the QM is quite willing to let us and other characters die, but also let us do interesting things. There is no game breaking stuff without significant effort and risk (for example, we haven't touched nearly any battle magic because the QM is quite clear that any and every cast of battle magic will lead to a roll to not miscast, which if failed, leads to a roll for bad stuff, including death.) These real consequences leads and real difficulty means that any advantage or victory seems well earned and something to feel proud of, as quest choices do pay off to real success and real mistakes. And clever choices (one in particular I'm thinking about right now) have let us succeed far beyond our (or the QMs) wildest dreams, while bad rolls combined with risky plans have made everyone very sad.
Fourth, the characters all feel alive, with their own feelings, opinions, and goals. Just because we are the protagonist, doesn't mean people will like us, and those people that don't like us aren't necessarily evil.
Fifth, it's not an overdone uplift story, where we discover steam engines, etc. That's done way too much, and we're doing much cooler things anyway. It's also not a stats game, where stats just constantly build on themselves to overbearing heights. It was, to some degree, but after we completed our journeying, became a full Magister and grew older, our stat growth slowed down a lot.
Tyzuris
Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
So I made a calculation on Space Marine gene-seed tithe and how much of that there is stored.
Each Chapter sends 5% of its gene-seed as tithe to the Imperium. And each SM produces one set of gene-seed every 50 years. So that means there is roughly 200 gene-seed production cycles between HH era and 40k era.
And considering it's five percent of gene-seed out of a thousand strong chapter, it's gene-seed for 50 Astartes every 50 years.
So 200 gene-seed production cycles multiplied by 50 per gene-seed production cycle multiplied by thousand Chapters means there is a reserve for somewhere along the line of 10 million Astartes. So in case the Imperium wanted it, they could increase the Chapters to 11000 Astartes. Add to that the hundreds of thousands of Primaris Cawl stored for Guilliman, and the Imperium could start some really serious buildup of Astartes forces if it so desired.
Each Chapter sends 5% of its gene-seed as tithe to the Imperium. And each SM produces one set of gene-seed every 50 years. So that means there is roughly 200 gene-seed production cycles between HH era and 40k era.
And considering it's five percent of gene-seed out of a thousand strong chapter, it's gene-seed for 50 Astartes every 50 years.
So 200 gene-seed production cycles multiplied by 50 per gene-seed production cycle multiplied by thousand Chapters means there is a reserve for somewhere along the line of 10 million Astartes. So in case the Imperium wanted it, they could increase the Chapters to 11000 Astartes. Add to that the hundreds of thousands of Primaris Cawl stored for Guilliman, and the Imperium could start some really serious buildup of Astartes forces if it so desired.