History Western Civilization, Rome and Cyclical History

Situations of chaos and uncertainty foster all sorts of hysteria and conspiracy thinking. This isn't even entirely unjustified, because in many cases, the elite -- feeling the heat themselves -- will try to screw over the masses. The problem is that you get very excessive manifestations of this kind of thing. (Who in his right mind believes that Jacob the deli owner is part of an evil cabal that wants to rule the world?)

Yet any unassimilated minority is always, by design, something of an "outsider". And in crises, in-group/out-group thinking becomes the dominant mode. (Which, to be clear, is completely natural, and indeed a function of evolution itself.) If it is also a minority who cultural ethic tends towards hard work in often profitable sectors, then envy becomes involved as well.

The other side of the coin is that such a minority that refuses assimilation can -- by design -- never be fully rooted within its host society. This tends to encourage the members of this group to support cosmopolitanism in said society, because that produces attitudes beneficial to the group (e.g. increased toleration). Additionally, it will lead to the society being more open to cultural mixing, which makes the group in question "NOT the only 'Other Guy' in the room".

Which explains why you see a lot of left-wing/progressive Jews in the West, while Israel (where these incentives are absent) tends far further right-wing/conservative. You also see that the "regular, common guy" Jews will more often tend right-wing, while there's a separate cosmopolitan elite that's completely inter-mingled with the gentile cosmopolitan elite. (They share the same goals.)

You can easily see how these factors conspire (no pun intended) to keep anti-semitism alive.





I'm less optimistic, although things can go in many directions. You already have people within the MAGA movement talking about, ah... "Jewish space lasers", so that tells us something. Meanwhile, the aforementioned cosmopolitan elite within the Jewish community has indeed hitched its wagon to that of the establishment.

The best thing sensible Jews can do, I think, is the best thing sensible gays can do: make it clear that they're not with those lunatics. The culture war is about ideas and values, more than anything else. Our enemy wants it to be about race and class and such things. There are elements within the populist opposition that think along those lines as well. The same thinking that divides society along those lines, however, is the thinking that can make one believe that Jacob the Deli owner is part of some evil cabal..

(Which means, yes, that the progressive elite -- Gentile and Jewish -- is in fact contributing to the likelihood of new pogroms in the future.)

Right now, the MAGA movement is primarily a faction catering to white Americans. I believe, as you know, that when the current iteration of the 'spoils system' runs out of spoils to distribute, the disaffected working class regardless of ethnicity will flock to the populists. At this point, if one seeks to avoid anti-semitic swerves, it is essential that all regular guys -- essentially, Americans who just happen to be Jews -- side with the populist movement.

The progressive elite will call them race-traitors who side with the (supposed) anti-semites, but this nonsense must be ignored. The fact is: when that hour comes, those who side with the populists will see their side triumph three decades later. Those who side with the establishment will be rounded up and dealt with after such time.

As such, the question of anti-semitism later in this century can -- to a great degree -- be settled by Jewish patriots.



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Okay, here goes:

1) Your question is, basically, "if there is no hard evidence -- such as videos that can be trusted -- and what we believe relies on which testimony we trust, won't that lead to something like the 'twitter hive mind' and its tendencies towards cancel culture?" -- at least, that's how I understand what you said.

2) My anwer is that for almost all of human history, no photos, videos and audio recordings existed. Yet this kind of hysteria-prone group-think was NOT the norm.

3) Periods of such hysteria and group-think DID exist, but such reactions are linked to times of chaos and uncertainty.

4) Generally speaking, for almost all of history, people with responsibility had to think hard about all "facts" they heard, because acting on bullshit opinions would have bad consequences. So in a world where you HAVE to rely on witness testimony for nearly everything, you also HAVE to be good at judging which testominy is legit. People who are bad at this tended to suffer for it!

5) Thanks to photos, videos and audio recordings, we got used to having the facts displayed before our eyes. It was no longer needed to critically examine every source. We got lazy.

6) The evidence-based paradigm is falling apart now. Supposed "hard evidence" can be faked! We're back to the "you have to judge what story you trust" kind of world. But, and this is the key, we LOST our ability to properly judge that! We got lazy! Modern tech pampered us!

7) The current wave of social hysteria ("cancel culture") is in part CAUSED by the above point. People are used to getting hard facts, but cancel culture is all about subjective interpretation. Because most people are too mentally lazy/weak to interpret what is true, they instead just go with the herd and treat the (supposed) majority opinion as a fact. Which means that anyone opposed to "THE MESSAGE" is automatically AN EVIL LIAR.

8) Once the current period of chaos is over, we'll be back in the old situation. New generations will re-learn the critical thinking skills, and we'll treat information the way our ancestors did. "I trust this man, because he's only said true things in the past. I don't trust that man, because I've known him to lie three times this month." Basically, we'll get much better at drawing our own conclusions. (Which is now an almost-extinct skill!)

9) For these reasons, my answer to your question is that something like cancel culture will NOT become the norm, just as it wasn't the norm in the past.

10) But I add that just as there have been periods of social hysteria in the past, there will also be periods like that in the future. Obviously.

so what happens when human judgment fails for whatever reason? Call me an outlaw or a barbarian or whatever but there is a reason why I cling to my 2nd amendment rights like my life depends on it.
 
so what happens when human judgment fails for whatever reason? Call me an outlaw or a barbarian or whatever but there is a reason why I cling to my 2nd amendment rights like my life depends on it.

To ask the question is to answer it.

Human judgement often fails. If we are all constantly trained to actually use our judgement, however, the likelihood of 'critical errors' does decrease. And in that scenario, 'group-think' also diminishes, as a phenomenon. So even if someone makes a poor judgement, that doesn't stop others from reaching a sound judgement.

Against the risk of mobs who take stupid actions based on their poor judgement, I feel that the solution you indicate -- be able to defend yourself -- is the wisest course, and indeed the only practical one. There is after all no functional difference between a riled-up mob of humans and a riled-up troop of chimpanzees-- except that humans are capable of worse atrocities.
 
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To ask the question is to answer it.

Human judgement often fails. If we are all constantly trained to actually use our judgement, however, the likelihood of 'critical errors' does decrease. And in that scenario, 'group-think' also diminishes, as a phenomenon. So even if someone makes a poor judgement, that doesn't stop others from reaching a sound judgement.

Against the risk of mobs who take stupid actions based on their poor judgement, I feel that the solution you indicate -- be able to defend yourself -- is the wisest course. There is after all no functional between a riled-up mob of humans and a riled-up troop of chimpanzees, except that humans are capable of worse atrocities.

at least chimps don't justify their atrocities using morality or philosophy
 
at least chimps don't justify their atrocities using morality or philosophy

Too true, unfortunately. 😔


To ask the question is to answer it.

Human judgement often fails. If we are all constantly trained to actually use our judgement, however, the likelihood of 'critical errors' does decrease. And in that scenario, 'group-think' also diminishes, as a phenomenon. So even if someone makes a poor judgement, that doesn't stop others from reaching a sound judgement.

Against the risk of mobs who take stupid actions based on their poor judgement, I feel that the solution you indicate -- be able to defend yourself -- is the wisest course, and indeed the only practical one. There is after all no functional difference between a riled-up mob of humans and a riled-up troop of chimpanzees-- except that humans are capable of worse atrocities.

Yeah...

Honestly, even if the current AI craze is wildly overblown, I think human stupidity all by itself proves we don't need Skynet to still have Judgment Day. If it still happens, I'm convinced it'll be at the hands of either Neo-Caesar as "Pan-Western Super Savonarola!" or Neo-Antony as "Jim Jones writ large!" — never mind all the other mass-murdering crazies who'll be running around once everything goes to pot.

Even with, say, anti-nuclear defense grids rendering nukes more or less obsolete (no doubt shown by the first few launches being thwarted), I think you're right about chemical and biological weapons being used to deliberately target "enemy peoples" without totally irradiating the landscape. If anything, the options that a "nuke-proof" future open up might be even more terrifying, despite thermonuclear war no longer being on the table.
 
Then there will be cultures that America impresses but do not have their own counterparts of what is most American through as they fit in, they will gain American characteristics. (I believe one such will be German).
I can only pray the primary characteristics will be an obsession with arming the population and holding a deep-seated distrust for the goverment.
 
I can only pray the primary characteristics will be an obsession with arming the population and holding a deep-seated distrust for the goverment.
And did you know that these are actually two things that Poles very much wish for in Germans? What scares us is the German confidence in government and the ease with which they accept "brilliant" ideas.

We look forward to the day when, if some "Genius" says something idiotic but easily argued, the German,
instead of saying Ja, mein Führer!
He will say Verpiss
While keeping a gun pointed at this "genius".
 
And did you know that these are actually two things that Poles very much wish for in Germans? What scares us is the German confidence in government and the ease with which they accept "brilliant" ideas.

We look forward to the day when, if some "Genius" says something idiotic but easily argued, the German,
instead of saying Ja, mein Führer!
He will say Verpiss
While keeping a gun pointed at this "genius".

The germans always have a plan....sometimes though the plan goes horribly wrong.
 
The germans always have a plan....sometimes though the plan goes horribly wrong.
And for modern Germans, no matter how flawed the plan, they always follow it through to its logical conclusion…

There’s a reason East Germany was considered excessive by the Communist Block. The German has driven himself mad in his attempts to order the world. The “march towards the absolute” is one Hell of a drug.
 
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after the Enlightenment drove Prussia mad
more Branderburg, the more I learn about the real Prussians, the more irritated I am that the name of this proud, independent and extremely commercial nation, was taken over by some usurpers who, under enlightened absolutism, completely changed the meaning of what a Prussian is.

Heck, most Prussians never were, they were Brandenburgers by another name.

Ever since I learned how eager the Prussians were for a union with Brandenburg, (hint, they weren't a bit eager, only the stupidity of a few Elected Kings made it happen), I can't look at the "Kingdom of Prussia" other than as a usurped "Kingdom" of Brandenburg.

Which makes sense, since the overwhelming majority of "Prussia" was and is Brandenburg, the capital was all the time in Berlin, the capital of Brandenburg. Not in Königsberg, the capital of the Principality in Prussia.
 
The germans always have a plan....sometimes though the plan goes horribly wrong.
There is funny proverb about it - Germns are ALWAYS marching, and ALWAYS in Wrong Direction.
And yes,i would blame it on Brandenburgians.
 
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Understandable and arguably the basis of the Israeli nuclear policy.

TL;DR even in their worst case scenario of America collapsing or being governed by populists and no longer being able or willing to fight their wars for them, Israel is going to be fine.
Yup.H bombs for every country,and we would have safer world.
 
Skallagrim, I think you’ve mentioned a bit about Christianity rising again in America and keeping its hold in Eastern Europe, but what are your views of the old folk beliefs of Western Europe? I don’t know about the rest of the world, but I know the Old Gods of the Norse and the English are enjoying a steady revival in my neck of the woods (I’m not talking about Druids and Wicca. Veneration of the Thunderer is not a province of the progressives).

It feeds into a theory of mine that when you rip a society up, people will reach further and further back into history for comfort. Should you take away the gentle Christian God…you wake up something very old and far less forgiving.
 
Skallagrim, I think you’ve mentioned a bit about Christianity rising again in America and keeping its hold in Eastern Europe, but what are your views of the old folk beliefs of Western Europe? I don’t know about the rest of the world, but I know the Old Gods of the Norse and the English are enjoying a steady revival in my neck of the woods (I’m not talking about Druids and Wicca. Veneration of the Thunderer is not a province of the progressives).

It feeds into a theory of mine that when you rip a society up, people will reach further and further back into history for comfort. Should you take away the gentle Christian God…you wake up something very old and far less forgiving.
I once read about at least some wiccans supporting incest,especially mothers-sons.
Is it true,or some joke?

And,your theory seems legit to me.
 
Skallagrim, I think you’ve mentioned a bit about Christianity rising again in America and keeping its hold in Eastern Europe, but what are your views of the old folk beliefs of Western Europe? I don’t know about the rest of the world, but I know the Old Gods of the Norse and the English are enjoying a steady revival in my neck of the woods (I’m not talking about Druids and Wicca. Veneration of the Thunderer is not a province of the progressives).

It feeds into a theory of mine that when you rip a society up, people will reach further and further back into history for comfort. Should you take away the gentle Christian God…you wake up something very old and far less forgiving.


on one hand whoo maybe women will be both feminine AND tough again...on the other hand, I'm not sure if I'm ok with what would essentially be the revival of Old European gangsta cultures. (Yes the Vikings were essentially "the hood" of old Europe.
 
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We'll...agee to disagree.

I am very much a pessimist, with a constrained view of the world and humanity.

I tend to view everything as having a price, and that perfection is impossible and that you can only strive to give ones children a better world then you recieved. Its...a pretty grim view of the world and I understand why most people don't agree with that view point.
 
the revival of Old European gangsta cultures. (Yes the Vikings were essentially "the hood" of old Europe.
I doubt it would be entirely the same if such a thing came to pass. A lot of that was motivated by raiding culture which was down to a lack of resources. Not so much of a problem in the modern day.

But yes, society would be more brutal. Say hello to blood feuds started over a dinner gone wrong! (I'm serious. Hospitality was a sacred thing to the Norse, and failure to uphold it caused generation long blood feuds. "Welcome" is a Norse word after all!)
 

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