Vyor
My influence grows!
1: Simply having a gay person doesn't mean woke
2: Almost all of the games I listed have a fucking story to them.
"Woke" Franchises
- Thread starter Seth Vatamaris
- Start date
1: Simply having a gay person doesn't mean woke
2: Almost all of the games I listed have a fucking story to them.
Vyor
My influence grows!
Woke=Pushing a left wing political agenda
Simply having a gay character doesn't make it woke. Being able to romance them doesn't mean that either.
King Arts
Well-known member
1 true
2 team fortress has a plot? Counter strike has a plot? Left 4 dead has a plot, sins of a solar empire has a plot?
Vyor
My influence grows!
Except that the Liara romance was in ME1 so...
4 games out of... 46
Amazing, it's so many.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
You could see the beginnings of it in Mass Effect, but it was such early days that it didn’t overly irritate people. But as the years went by…
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Bioware games in general seem to treat the whole LGBTQ thing very maturely. It's not treated as something special, or to push some kind of agenda, it just is. No different from heterosexual relationships, really. The closest they come to woke was in Inquisition, during Dorian's character arc. Even then, the problem wasn't so much that he was gay, in fact, the implication was that he could still see other men on the side so long as he did his duty and sired a child to continue House Pavus' generational project to produce ever stronger mages. The problem was that he didn't want to, and his father tried to push the issue with a dangerous blood magic ritual that probably wouldn't have worked and would have left him a drooling idiot.
Then it subverts the whole message if a female Elf gets into a lesbian romance with Sera, since the relationship quickly turns toxic as the latter starts trying to push her religion (Sera is Andrastian while an Elven PC is Dalish) and anarchist beliefs onto her partner. This finally comes to a head after the Temple of Mythal, when Sera issues an ultimatum: abandon traditional Elven society and beliefs to fully convert to Andrastianism, or breakup. Yeah, calling it toxic would be an understatement.
Then it subverts the whole message if a female Elf gets into a lesbian romance with Sera, since the relationship quickly turns toxic as the latter starts trying to push her religion (Sera is Andrastian while an Elven PC is Dalish) and anarchist beliefs onto her partner. This finally comes to a head after the Temple of Mythal, when Sera issues an ultimatum: abandon traditional Elven society and beliefs to fully convert to Andrastianism, or breakup. Yeah, calling it toxic would be an understatement.
And at the time they claimed that didn't count because she belonged to a mono-gendered alien species.
Having gay or Bi characters in media doesn't necessarily make a piece of media automatically woke and "progressive"; that's a mistake a lot of people make, but with how woke poison has been infiltrating and contaminating everything recently, I can't fault them for having this view.
However, unlike in the past, such things are a good indicator that said media is actually woke/"progressive", and they typically are nowadays -- especially in video games, movies, and comics.
You always have to be suspicious now.
However, unlike in the past, such things are a good indicator that said media is actually woke/"progressive", and they typically are nowadays -- especially in video games, movies, and comics.
You always have to be suspicious now.
DarthOne
☦️
Wrong. The LGBTQ mafia are absolutely tied up in wokenss and modern progressive ideology.
Of course they are, but a piece of media having a gay or Bi character doesn't necessarily mean it's woke/progressive.
I mean, it's likely and, sadly enough, it's better to be suspicious than to give them the benefit of the doubt, but don't fall into the trap that it always is.
Woke doesn't mean "includes gay characters". It is possible for a story to have gay characters but also be deliberately unwoke in its premise and execution. For instance, Buppa from Tokyo Tribes is bisexual, but the series itself is extremely unwoke and mostly deals with themes of extreme gang violence.
Woke is when a story is extremely, annoyingly fucking preachy and takes sabbaticals from advancing the plot just to force an eye-rolling, groan-worthy Aesop on the audience. Woke is when one or more characters are used as mouthpieces for the author's political views and presented as objectively correct. They are never challenged to a stalemate by other characters in a debate, and the possibility of them being wrong is never left open.
Woke stories are boring because they don't give the reader the opportunity to form their own conclusions about which characters are in the right and which ones are in the wrong. A good fictional narrative has balance. It neutrally presents the merits and disadvantages of every side. It lets the audience do the actual legwork of determining which party in the story has the most legitimate case. Some really smart stories can even do the unthinkable and get you to sympathize with horrible people and then question yourself.
A shitty, woke fictional narrative does not do this, at all. It presents one side as obviously, blatantly correct, and everyone else not on that side as uncultured, shit-eating savages. In a good story, everyone has a fair shake. In a bad story full of woke bullshit, ideological mouthpiece characters pummel helpless strawmen into submission.
DarthOne
☦️
True enough. I don't think anyone would claim that say, a story written with a homosexual character in the 1950's would fall into either category, due to the almost universal views on homosexuality at the time.
That said, a story written post, say 1980's and certainly post-2010 would almost certainly fall into the category of being a modern progressive story. As it would almost certainly approach the subject of LGBTQ with a positive perspective. As even making a evil character who 'happens to be LGBTQ' would likely see work subject to massive backlash by modern progressives, wokists and anyone who's afraid of getting targeted.
Agreed, more or less.
Vyor
My influence grows!
So none of the games I listed are woke.
King Arts
Well-known member
It’s not the Liara thing Asari look like humans so it’s not bestiality but the relationships with other aliens that you can’t reproduce with.
King Arts
Well-known member
You just need to stay away from the stuff that’s one level short of porn like this is. But shonen is fine for the most part. Stuff like Dragon Ball or black clover or Naruto is fine for the most part.
DarthOne
☦️
Where does the line between beastality and aliens go? I thought for it to be the former, the lifeform had to be both non-human and less intelligent then a human.
Though come to think of it, that would disqualify anthromorphic creatures (ie furries and whatever)....so clearly, I need to adjust my thinking.
If you fuck a cow, it's beastilty. If you fuck an alien that has intelligence equal to humans, it's not beastality. If you fuck an alien cow, it's beastality (or something like xenobeastality).
The remake I'd say was woke (taking out the ass shots of Miranda, for example). But not the originals. Even not the third: remember, the only way to live in the end was to pick mass genocide, including of the good geth.
Basically, a big question is what values are being taught. A great set of differences is The Last of Us 1 v 2. In 1, it's about manning up and what it means to be a dad: your kid is more important than the world. That's very individualistic and non-woke. The second is woke and also the fetish of the main writer brought to life.
As for gayness defining whether a game is woke, I'd say it's heavily correlated, but not always now. This used to not be the case, but now it is. Most 'gay shit' in games was just giving the characters options (notably in Bethesda games, where they made everyone bi).
I'd say woke games generally have the following characteristics:
- De-sexing female characters, especially those who are white and straight. Why? Because that's who the bottom of the intersectional hierarchy wants. Guys can still be hot though.
- Characters for whom being some (real world) minority is their main character trait. Think the trans character who shares that they are trans. All non-binary characters qualify for this.
- Constant talk about modern day relevant politics
This simply cannot be the line, otherwise sex with anyone infertile is equivalent to bestiality. Beastiality is wrong for a number of reasons, all of which boil down to intelligence and the ability to consent. It's animal abuse, degrading to both parties, and at worst, can serve as a replacement for genuine romantic connection, which destroys the person's ability to have that.