China Wuhan Virus Pandemic

[Marduk]

There seem to be conflicting stories about what exactly the Israelis thought they were doing, but it is agreed by all that the ship did not sink.

Which is a big hole in the conspiracy theories. If it was some super secret black op to get USA into the war or something, it would be made to sink, or at least it would be attacked with decent anti ship weapons likely to make it happen, rather than randomly scrounged up navy and air force assets meant to drive off a harassing Egyptian ship.

 

[DarthOne]

While I do think the USN should have hit back, and hard, an actual land invasion as you suggest would be... a bit excessive.
But I would love to see a thread about the hypothetical timeline you're suggesting...

A US occupation of Israel? That means Uncle Sam picks up the entire tab for defending the place, rather than just funding some of the hardware...

Who said anything about occupation…?

 

[Scottty]

Which is a big hole in the conspiracy theories. If it was some super secret black op to get USA into the war or something, it would be made to sink, or at least it would be attacked with decent anti ship weapons likely to make it happen, rather than randomly scrounged up navy and air force assets meant to drive off a harassing Egyptian ship.

All arguments of the "if they had wanted to get result X, they would have done Y" type assume competence.

Some things are most simply explained by stupidity.
They thought they were attacking an Egyptian ship, and should have called it all the moment they realized it was American. But they didn't.
Why? Because they were being stupid.

I'm using term stupid in the sense used by Carlo Cipolla in his essay The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity.
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

 

[Scottty]

Who said anything about occupation…?

Two points:
1) When has the USA, ever, in all its history.. invaded and conquered someplace and then just immediately packed up and gone home? No, they would stay and try to remake the conquered country in their own ideological image. Because that is what they always do.

2) Are suggesting that they should have destroyed the Israeli military, and then just left the Israelis to be exterminated by the Arabs while pretending it was none of America's responsibility?
That's not how it works, dude. Not for any civilized people. When you conquer a land you take on the responsibility for defending it. If you later grant them independence, you are morally obligated to ensure that whoever you leave in charge is able to provide security for the people.

 

[Marduk]

All arguments of the "if they had wanted to get result X, they would have done Y" type assume competence.

Some things are most simply explained by stupidity.
They thought they were attacking an Egyptian ship, and should have called it all the moment they realized it was American. But they didn't.
Why? Because they were being stupid.

I'm using term stupid in the sense used by Carlo Cipolla in his essay The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity.
A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.

The article explains that completely. There is no "they", 60's Israel had no hivemind or even some RTS\sci fi style unified battle command system, or even modern military comms. It was WW2 style one based on voice radio, written reports and paper maps. While Air Force realized first that it's an American ship, their command comms were overloaded with messages because you know, war, with radio reports delayed by many hours. So before the message that it's an American ship got through all the bureaucracy out to AF command, from them to Navy command, and then from them to the ships, the previously ordered torpedo boat attack happened already.
The attacking aircraft pilots didn't know about the incoming torpedo boats and thought command will handle spreading the info anyway.

 

[DarthOne]

Two points:
1) When has the USA, ever, in all its history.. invaded and conquered someplace and then just immediately packed up and gone home? No, they would stay and try to remake the conquered country in their own ideological image. Because that is what they always do.

2) Are suggesting that they should have destroyed the Israeli military, and then just left the Israelis to be exterminated by the Arabs while pretending it was none of America's responsibility?
That's not how it works, dude. Not for any civilized people. When you conquer a land you take on the responsibility for defending it. If you later grant them independence, you are morally obligated to ensure that whoever you leave in charge is able to provide security for the people.

Fair enough.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is just going to get worse and worse.

 

[Jormungandr]

Welp, that's horrifying. And expected.

Remember when we were shit on and persecuted by society as a whole for two years because we were calling all this shit out? I wish I could say it feels good to be vindicated, but the people dying are our friends, loved ones, and acquaintances -- even if a lot of them did act like hysterical twats.

 

[Scottty]

Welp, that's horrifying. And expected.

Remember when we were shit on and persecuted by society as a whole for two years because we were calling all this shit out? I wish I could say it feels good to be vindicated, but the people dying are our friends, loved ones, and acquaintances -- even if a lot of them did act like hysterical twats.

Lots of people will still be insisting that the "vaccine" is perfectly safe, and refusing to connect the dots.
Like someone I used to be friends with who got herself vaxxed and boosted and so on, and now keeps getting Covid over and over. But no, no, she does not want to see me in person anymore, because I'm not vaxxed.
Because the un-vaxxed are a danger to the vaxxed... somehow.

 

[Jormungandr]

Lots of people will still be insisting that the "vaccine" is perfectly safe, and refusing to connect the dots.
Like someone I used to be friends with who got herself vaxxed and boosted and so on, and now keeps getting Covid over and over. But no, no, she does not want to see me in person anymore, because I'm not vaxxed.
Because the un-vaxxed are a danger to the vaxxed... somehow.

Brainwashing and human stupidity at its finest. smh

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Lots of people will still be insisting that the "vaccine" is perfectly safe, and refusing to connect the dots.
Like someone I used to be friends with who got herself vaxxed and boosted and so on, and now keeps getting Covid over and over. But no, no, she does not want to see me in person anymore, because I'm not vaxxed.
Because the un-vaxxed are a danger to the vaxxed... somehow.

Her vaccine only works if you get it too.

BIGOT!

 

[Rocinante]

Lots of people will still be insisting that the "vaccine" is perfectly safe, and refusing to connect the dots.
Like someone I used to be friends with who got herself vaxxed and boosted and so on, and now keeps getting Covid over and over. But no, no, she does not want to see me in person anymore, because I'm not vaxxed.
Because the un-vaxxed are a danger to the vaxxed... somehow.

One of my best friends is vaxed and boosted. Her job made her do it and she wasn't willing to leave over it.

I feel bad for people like her. She was never for mandates. Never wanted to force anyone else to get it. Just wanted to keep working her job.

Her menstrual cycles have not been right since. And she's had covid 5 times.

Her live in unvaxxed girlfriend? Got covid once.

Me? Been exposed to covid every time she's caught it. I haven't caught it except the one original time.

I'm literally immune to it. Yet the vaxxed crowd can't stop catching it.

I don't feel bad at ALL for those who wanted to force it and were assholes about it. They ended the friendship with me, not the other way around, and I never really did rekindle friendships with them after this blew over.

In fact, I'm laughing at their suffering and misery. I have tons of empathy. Just not for the people who wanted to force me to take an experimental medication and destroy my life if I didn't.

Fuck them. I'm glad THEY'RE suffering. They deserve it, because they forced it on so many others who don't deserve to suffer. I hope they continue to suffer.

Maybe one day I will change my mind, if they apologize and seek redemption. For the most part, they have not. Only their suffering will teach them anything.

 

[Cherico]

Welp, that's horrifying. And expected.

Remember when we were shit on and persecuted by society as a whole for two years because we were calling all this shit out? I wish I could say it feels good to be vindicated, but the people dying are our friends, loved ones, and acquaintances -- even if a lot of them did act like hysterical twats.

I just hope that the people responsible for this get the exact same treatment they delivered to others.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

I just hope that the people responsible for this get the exact same treatment they delivered to others.

I'd prefer a more direct approach in punishing the subhumans that caused the pandemic to break out in the first places. Something involving ditches and machine guns.

 

[Iconoclast]

Well, now they've gone and admitted it.

Covid-19’s Wuhan cover-up: Anthony Fauci downplayed scientist suspici…

archived 29 Jul 2023 20:49:14 UTC

archive.li

Dr Kadlec's comments give the closest insight to date on how Dr Fauci – who led coronavirus policy for two presidents and influenced the worldwide approach to the pandemic – handled the link between Covid-19 and China. They came as US congressional investigations in the past month revealed how scientists worked to silence concerns about a lab leak.
"I think Tony Fauci was trying to protect his institution and his own reputation from the possibility that his agency was funding the Wuhan Institute of Virology researchers who, beyond the scope of the grants received from the National Institutes of Health, may have been working with People's Liberation Army researchers on defensive coronavirus vaccines," Dr Kadlec said.
"I think it's evident from his later released emails (obtained via Freedom of Information requests) that he had more sense of what his institute had funded at that moment. This was a reputational risk to him and his institute and certainly he probably sided with the international scientists that believed that false or unsubstantiated accusations could have a chilling effect on scientific collaboration between the western world and China."

What really happened in Wuhan: new lab leak evidence over the origin …

archived 29 Jul 2023 07:43:03 UTC

archive.li

During this 24-hour period, Andersen would locate a scientific paper documenting the Wuhan Institute of Virology's genetic engineering of coronaviruses – it was practically a "how-to-manual for building the Wuhan coronavirus in a laboratory", according to Dr Jeremy Farrar, a British medical researcher and member of the UK Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, writing in a memoir. Farrar recalls that Holmes's reaction to seeing that paper was: "F..k, this is bad," before jumping on a call to discuss the matter with him. Farrar would later see fit to acquire a burner phone.
What the scientists did next is shocking.
Instead of disclosing their suspicions to the world, Fauci and his NIH colleagues engineered a narrative to distract attention from contentious research funded by the US, and convince the world this was more likely a natural born killer rather than one created by scientists.

When people realize what really happened here, the whole world's going to burn down. I look forward to it.

 

[ATP]

Well then, why the fuck didn't they sink it? Why did they not use weapons that actually sink ships instead of harassing it with ground attack weapons like cannons, light rockets and friggin napalm???

The Liberty Incident - History, Politics And Current Affairs

tboverse.com

This is a write up of the incident by a pro naval analyst.
Shut up and read, instead of spreading an old conspiracy theory normally parroted by islamists, leftists, neonazis and other morons, and if you can't understand it then understand that you have no business acting smart about the topic in question.

They used torpedoes,but americans manage to avoid them.

 

[Marduk]

They used torpedoes,but americans manage to avoid them.

After all the other ridiculous stuff from the air. Which were WW2 Italian torpedos, decades old at the time. And no, one of them did hit. The rest missed because Liberty dodged, no evasive action was recorded, it's just because the torpedos were slow and hard to aim WW2 relics. Still not sinking the ship, because they were shitty 450mm WW2 model with considerably worse warhead than typical 533mm one at the time of the incident. The TBs had 6, so they left one either for a finishing shot, or because it broke. Again, if you are going to do such a top secret and dangerous mission, why use such a hodgepodge of shitty weapons that are unlikely to do the job?

 

[ATP]

After all the other ridiculous stuff from the air. Which were WW2 Italian torpedos, decades old at the time. And no, one of them did hit. The rest missed because Liberty dodged, no evasive action was recorded, it's just because the torpedos were slow and hard to aim WW2 relics. Still not sinking the ship, because they were shitty 450mm WW2 model with considerably worse warhead than typical 533mm one at the time of the incident. The TBs had 6, so they left one either for a finishing shot, or because it broke. Again, if you are going to do such a top secret and dangerous mission, why use such a hodgepodge of shitty weapons that are unlikely to do the job?

Becouse it would be enough to sink unarmed cyvilian ship?

 

[Scottty]

why use such a hodgepodge of shitty weapons that are unlikely to do the job?

"you go to war with the weaponry you have, not with the weaponry you would like to have"

EDIT: To expand on this: Israel today has a high-tech military with loads of hardware that they designed and built for themselves.
But that was not always the case.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Again, if you are going to do such a top secret and dangerous mission, why use such a hodgepodge of shitty weapons that are unlikely to do the job?

W-Why would they use a hodgepodge of weapons on an identified US vessel!?