Russian Invasion of Ukraine 2022

Marduk · Feb 28, 2022

Agent23 said:
Because, as we told you, over and over and over, Ukraine had a free trade zone with Russia and it benefited hugely from that free trade zone.
We went through all this in detail, but once again you are just posting that same line and that same link.

You mean you lost the argument over and over, but didn't invent a new way to repeat it over again.
Free trade treaties do not conflict. As i've explained to you already, many countries in the world have free trade treaties with several third parties who have no free trade treaty with each other.
Like Mexico having one with EU and with US, even though EU and US don't have a free trade treaty with each other. And here we are talking about countries that don't get any less pissy about trade treaty shenanigans than Russia.

Agent23 said:
Is Belarus in a free trade zone with the EU?

No... And still did one of the things that Russia supposedly had to lash out at Ukraine possibly doing in the future due to their deals with EU.

Husky_Khan · Feb 28, 2022

Arlos said:
Negotiations starting today apparently?

Yep Yep.

Not sure whose providing refreshments. 😏

Arlos said:
No sign of them being used by Ukrainian, or of Russian capturing them, best guess is someone tought they wouldn’t be necessary and sold them to the black market...

There was speculation on the internet by various peeps that a lot of Javelins we're in depot's and got blown up on the first day or whatever.

Agent23 · Feb 28, 2022

Marduk said:
You mean you lost the argument over and over, but didn't invent a new way to repeat it over again.
Free trade treaties do not conflict. As i've explained to you already, many countries in the world have free trade treaties with several third parties who have no free trade treaty with each other.
Like Mexico having one with EU and with US, even though EU and US don't have a free trade treaty with each other. And here we are talking about countries that don't get any less pissy about trade treaty shenanigans than Russia.

There you go, fantasizing and comparing apples to oranges again.

Marduk said:
No... And still did one of the things that Russia supposedly had to lash out at Ukraine possibly doing in the future due to their deals with EU.

Yes, and the Russians confiscate the contraband and destroy it, as that garbage leftoid site you linked to says.
I'd link a few choice pieces of BBC coverage of Poland, but I am too lazy and have no desire to touch that dreck.

Husky_Khan said:
There was speculation on the internet by various peeps that a lot of Javelins we're in depot's and got blown up on the first day or whatever.

Or maybe it is just a devious plot by president Brandon to destroy the arms industries of the rest of the world by giving everyone free US weapons, then charging out the wazoo for ammo.
The taliban are rather enthusiastic users of US Humvees, Helicopters, and other assorted gear now.

Wargamer08 · Feb 28, 2022

Husky_Khan said:
Yep Yep.

Not sure whose providing refreshments. 😏

There was speculation on the internet by various peeps that a lot of Javelins we're in depot's and got blown up on the first day or whatever.

They are chunky, heavy bastards and also expensive. Makes sense you would want most of them where the armory officers can count them.

Zachowon · Feb 28, 2022

Husky_Khan said:
Yep Yep.

Not sure whose providing refreshments. 😏

There was speculation on the internet by various peeps that a lot of Javelins we're in depot's and got blown up on the first day or whatever.

Yey plenty kf tanks have been killed by them and NLAWS

Arlos · Feb 28, 2022

Husky_Khan said:
There was speculation on the internet by various peeps that a lot of Javelins we're in depot's and got blown up on the first day or whatever.

*shrug* as good an explanation as any.

Marduk · Feb 28, 2022

Agent23 said:
There you go, fantasizing and comparing apples to oranges again.

There it goes, LALALA can't hear you again.
Nothing was stopping Russia from dealing with Ukraine the same way and everyone knows it.
Russia spazzed out with a trade war because the EU dealings would be a loss of economic influence on Ukraine, and that Putin was now willing to tolerate.

Agent23 said:
Yes, and the Russians confiscate the contraband and destroy it, as that garbage leftoid site you linked to says.

Yes. When found out. But still, there were no similar consequences to Belarus.
While you are claiming that in case of Ukraine, Russia was reacting to mere future potential of that happening. Even though it doesn't even require deals with EU to happen.

Agent23 · Feb 28, 2022

Wargamer08 said:
They are chunky, heavy bastards and also expensive. Makes sense you would want most of them where the armory officers can count them.

I repeat my rule of thumb regarding East European anything inventory.
If it is on the books, but not visible or semi-visible, and not subject to close inspection it is actually wholly or in part sold off on the black market, and/or stopped working long ago.

Then again, I might be wrong and Brandon might have managed to give people more free weapons.

Marduk said:
There it goes, LALALA can't hear you again.
Nothing was stopping Russia from dealing with Ukraine the same way and everyone knows it.
Russia spazzed out with a trade war because the EU dealings would be a loss of economic influence on Ukraine, and that Putin was now willing to tolerate.

I linked you to exact quotes from Kremlin economic advisors on the subject, you are the one going LALALA.
And no, I am not relinking it, talking to a deaf person or showing pictures to a blind one is pointless.

Marduk said:
Yes. When found out. But still, there were no similar consequences to Belarus.
While you are claiming that in case of Ukraine, Russia was reacting to mere future potential of that happening. Even though it doesn't even require deals with EU to happen.

And the Belarus government is far more cooperative with Russia where this smuggling is concerned, and Lukashenko was never as close to the West as Ukraine was trying to be before 2014.
Also, Russian export substitution programs are also a thing and western dumping is something that Russia can arguably deal better with now than back before 2014.

Also, as you yourself stated the Rouble has declined since 2014, thus making Russian domestic production more competitive.

Marduk · Feb 28, 2022

Arlos said:
*shrug* as good an explanation as any.

Reminder that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
This isn't good opsec, and ME has spoiled us with TOW videos because the insurgents who got them not only aren't too well trained, and there are rumors that the groups that had TOWs had deals requiring them to prove that the missile was used properly before getting any more missiles because you know, middle east.

Agent23 · Feb 28, 2022

Marduk said:
Reminder that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
This isn't good opsec, and ME has spoiled us with TOW videos because the insurgents who got them not only aren't too well trained, and there are rumors that the groups that had TOWs had deals requiring them to prove that the missile was used properly before getting any more missiles because you know, middle east.

The ghost of the TOWs/Javelins of Kiev, anyone?

They have allegedly started using their own domestically produced manpads in the conflict, with pictures on which they have Arab markings, obviously the priorities of Ukraine's quartermasters and of their arms industry misaligned with those of its president.
(You'd think that producing manpads for domestic needs will be of higher priority than exporting to ISIS)
Or they were all off sick when the production committee was finalizing his script.

Marduk · Feb 28, 2022

Agent23 said:
I linked you to exact quotes from Kremlin economic advisors on the subject, you are the one going LALALA.
And no, I am not relinking it, talking to a deaf person or showing pictures to a blind one is pointless.

Kremlin economic advisors will say whatever their employer tells them to say.

Agent23 said:
And the Belarus government is far more cooperative with Russia where this smuggling is concerned, and Lukashenko was never as close to the West as Ukraine was trying to be before 2014.
Also, Russian export substitution programs are also a thing and western dumping is something that Russia can arguably deal better with now than back before 2014.

Also, as you yourself stated the Rouble has declined since 2014, thus making Russian domestic production more competitive.

Yeah, yeah, Russia stronk.
>cooperative
The only thing that stopped this was border getting locked down in the 2021 mess.

But yeah, it is exactly about this, Ukraine not being allowed to get close to the west, not anything trade related that couldn't be handled without a trade war and in most countries is.

Agent23 said:
The ghost of the TOWs/Javelins of Kiev, anyone?

They have allegedly started using their own domestically produced manpads in the conflict, with pictures on which they have Arab markings, obviously the priorities of Ukraine's quartermasters and of their arms industry misaligned with those of its president.
(You'd think that producing manpads for domestic needs will be of higher priority than exporting to ISIS)
Or they were all off sick when the production committee was finalizing his script.

Well they need money to produce for domestic needs, and exporting domestic military gear to get it was something they did a lot.

PsihoKekec · Feb 28, 2022

SchrodingersWehraboo said:
Any single picture of captured Javelin launchers yet? So far it's just MLAWs and SMAWs. That's been the biggest fakery of the war. Garbage Javelin memes gave been flooding the net since day one. So I wonder why we haven't gotten any footage of them in action akin to Syria. The only ATGM footage I've seen seems to be from the Novorossian side. Combined with the fact that these things weigh 50 pounds, and I'd assume a few might be left behind in the confusion of withdrawal.

It was known that their Javelins were kept in depot and only taken out for photo ops and for training by selected units, due to fears of some launchers being lost, just like one of four a counterbattery radars sent by USA was immediately lost in unclear circumstances (and then another was lost in Delbatsevo). It's possible that they were destroyed in the depot or stuck in transit to combat units. It could be also possible that in anticipation of invasion they were handed to units on the frontline near Donbass and Lughansk where fighting for the last three days is just exchanges of fire between dug in units and Ukrainians do not have enough missiles to spend them on infantry positions.

Marduk said:
Why don't you read up on the details instead of blindly repeating the propaganda line.
Russia does have a customs union...
But... Ukraine was never in it!

Ukraine had free trade treaty and was associate member of the customs union (at the same time as they were going for the EU associate status). Russia tried to force them to change their mind (as I said asshole move) via pressure, they should cancel the agreements if the situation came that far.

Zachowon said:
Have you listened to them yourself?

Some of them, they were rather unconvincing, somewhere in the league of Lost cosmonauts tapes.

Marduk · Feb 28, 2022

Butch R. Mann said:
Ukraine had free trade treaty and was associate member of the customs union (at the same time as they were going for the EU associate status). Russia tried to force them to change their mind (as I said asshole move) via pressure, they should cancel the agreements if the situation came that far.

No, Ukraine was denied even observer status in that customs union because they were going for the EU associate status. So there wasn't even anything to cancel, because they would have to get some kind of status first.
And as i said, free trade treaty is absolutely no problem, many countries normally have them with different ones who don't necessarily like each other.

Agent23 said:
Translation: lalala, I don't care I prefer my truth to whatever the parties concerned say they think and want.

Say they want. To public. That's sometimes different from what they want.
You like to throw around examples of unverified stories turning possibly fake, so here you have one from the other side:

Russian Chief of General Staff Slams Reports About 'Imminent Invasion of Ukraine' as Fake

The Russian Chief of General Staff, Valery Gerasimov, has dismissed reports about Russia's alleged preparations to invade Ukraine as fake.

sputniknews.com

Yeah, trust everything Russian government employees say.

Agent23 said:
But then again you handwave concerns about neonazis shelling the donbass and burning people alive.

LOL.
More Kremlin propaganda. Do you get paid for this stuff? Can you tell us if it pays well?

2014 Odessa clashes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How do you tell "neonazi" shells from army shells? Its the thoughts the gunner has when firing them that makes them neonazi shells?

Zachowon · Feb 28, 2022

Butch R. Mann said:
It was known that their Javelins were kept in depot and only taken out for photo ops and for training by selected units, due to fears of some launchers being lost, just like one of four a counterbattery radars sent by USA was immediately lost in unclear circumstances (and then another was lost in Delbatsevo). It's possible that they were destroyed in the depot or stuck in transit to combat units. It could be also possible that in anticipation of invasion they were handed to units on the frontline near Donbass and Lughansk where fighting for the last three days is just exchanges of fire between dug in units and Ukrainians do not have enough missiles to spend them on infantry positions.

Ukraine had free trade treaty and was associate member of the customs union (at the same time as they were going for the EU associate status). Russia tried to force them to change their mind (as I said asshole move) via pressure, they should cancel the agreements if the situation came that far.

Some of them, they were rather unconvincing, somewhere in the league of Lost cosmonauts tapes.

Have you ever listened to radio when you are THAT far away from it?
It isn't clear. Every listen to CB?
Ever do HAM? Radio isn't that clear especially at the frequencies they are 9perating in

FriedCFour · Feb 28, 2022

Marduk said:
How do you tell "neonazi" shells from army shells? Its the thoughts the gunner has when firing them that makes them neonazi shells?

The crying about Nazis on both sides of this conflict makes me detest the absolute low people have sunk to in terms of what propaganda appeals to them, where you can only be morally just in your conflict depending on who can be better painted as being just like Hitler.

Wargamer08 · Feb 28, 2022

FriedCFour said:
The crying about Nazis on both sides of this conflict makes me detest the absolute low people have sunk to in terms of what propaganda appeals to them, where you can only be morally just in your conflict depending on who can be better painted as being just like Hitler.

Well the only acceptable target is Hitler, so if you want to attack someone they must therefore be Hitler.

49ersfootball · Feb 28, 2022

Good Morning folks.

@Husky_Khan I do NOT trust this so-called peace negotiation stuff because I am worried about the Ukrainian delegation might be held prisoner or worse.

Hearing news about Lukashenko allowing Russian military troops to be stationed in Belarus tells me this will NOT end well for Ukraine.

Husky_Khan · Feb 28, 2022

Morning (for me anyways) Unverified Twitter Spam.

Finland is one of the latest countries to decide to send lethal military aid to Ukraine.

Zelensky apparently had a chat with the Japanese Prime Minister recently.

Reportedly pictures of Foreign Volunteer Fighters posing with Ukrainian soldiers somewhere in Kyiv.

#AbolishNATO was trending on Twitter. Something both many American Communists and Libertarians can find agreement on apparently.

And here we have the traditional exchange of gifts between both sides.

FriedCFour · Feb 28, 2022

49ersfootball said:
@Husky_Khan I do NOT trust this so-called peace negotiation stuff because I am worried about the Ukrainian delegation might be held prisoner or worse.

Bruh why would they do that. They’re trying to get a peace deal out of this and that would destroy their ability to negotiate anything for decades. You’ve clearly got some psychosis about this entire chain of events, maybe stop and think a bit.

Husky_Khan said:
AbolishNATO was trending on Twitter. Something both many American Communists and Libertarians can find agreement on apparently.

American socialists at least are pretty pro Nato and all back Ukraine, but a lot of conservatives and right wingers also want NATO dead.

Husky_Khan · Feb 28, 2022

Husky_Khan said:
Reportedly pictures of Foreign Volunteer Fighters posing with Ukrainian soldiers somewhere in Kyiv.

Oh correction on my previous post. Those alleged Foreign Fighters are engaging in illegal behavior.

This is why you gotta check the comments.

FriedCFour said:
Bruh why would they do that. They’re trying to get a peace deal out of this and that would destroy their ability to negotiate anything for decades. You’ve clearly got some psychosis about this entire chain of events, maybe stop and think a bit.

He probably has you on ignore which is explaining the one sided level of disjointed dialogue between you two.

American socialists at least are pretty pro Nato and all back Ukraine, but a lot of conservatives and right wingers also want NATO dead.

Yeah kinda seems like the Horseshoe Theory on some respects again. But yeah the linked tweet is from the Virginia Communist Party. I saw some random blue checkmark Socialist Candidate in Cali or whatever throwing out the hashtag as well

It's fun seeing where everyone is falling. Predictable in many cases but still amusing.

Russian Invasion of Ukraine 2022

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