Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

KilroywasNOTHere said:

Going back to padme I's it wrong to say that in hindsight that Padme was absolutely horrible for Anakin and A. He deserved so much better and B. Just about any other woman who have been much better for Anakin?

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Why do you say she was horrible for Anakin?

Typhonis said:

Why do you say she was horrible for Anakin?

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she fed into Anakin's worse aspect like his jealousy (Cough cough clovis cough and as @Bear Ribs pointed out

Bear Ribs said:

P:adme Amidala is so suicidally brave and so utterly bereft of survival instincts in the Clone Wars because, for her, there have never been any consequences for her actions. The Force had predetermined she was going to bear the Chosen One's children so it made sure she got away unharmed every time and she never learned that people could actually be dangerous.

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Not to mention the fact that I think it was the revenge of the Sith Novel where it goes into Padme's inner thoughts where she admits that she likes that ultra jealous ultra possessive part of Anakin because essentially he's like a lion that she could aim at her enemies if she wanted to and she knew that if she asked him to he would kill for her without question.

She literally has a palpatine moment where she is willing to feed into Anakin's mental illness because it's useful. I think in the end obi-wan was right. Don't trust politicians.

Well, that's not surprising. Politician aside, she's from Naboo, just like Darth Sidious.

I wonder how much Palpatine did to get her to be Queen of Naboo?

KilroywasNOTHere said:

she fed into Anakin's worse aspect like his jealousy (Cough cough clovis cough and as @Bear Ribs pointed out


Not to mention the fact that I think it was the revenge of the Sith Novel where it goes into Padme's inner thoughts where she admits that she likes that ultra jealous ultra possessive part of Anakin because essentially he's like a lion that she could aim at her enemies if she wanted to and she knew that if she asked him to he would kill for her without question.

She literally has a palpatine moment where she is willing to feed into Anakin's mental illness because it's useful. I think in the end obi-wan was right. Don't trust politicians.

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Seriously?! 😦

Well, if true, then I’m suddenly much less sympathetic to Padmé when Anakin finally Force-choked her. If there’s a case of a semi-heroic politician being hoisted by their own petard for their bad deeds, that must be it.

Lord Sovereign said:

Going to be honest, as much as Lucasfilm say that Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time...he's a little bitch compared to Vitiate.

Sidious's end goal was to become the Dark God King of the universe.

Vitiate very nearly became a galaxy eating lovecraftian horror that transcended eternity itself.

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Which is where the whole thing Jumped the Shark for me. Then again, Vitiate never stuck me as an interesting villain.

Also, can we not mess up Luke and Leia? It’s not like Disney hasn’t already been doing a great job at it. We don’t need to pee on the ashes, so to speak.

KilroywasNOTHere said:

she fed into Anakin's worse aspect like his jealousy (Cough cough clovis cough and as @Bear Ribs pointed out


Not to mention the fact that I think it was the revenge of the Sith Novel where it goes into Padme's inner thoughts where she admits that she likes that ultra jealous ultra possessive part of Anakin because essentially he's like a lion that she could aim at her enemies if she wanted to and she knew that if she asked him to he would kill for her without question.

She literally has a palpatine moment where she is willing to feed into Anakin's mental illness because it's useful. I think in the end obi-wan was right. Don't trust politicians.

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Zyobot said:

Seriously?! 😦

Well, if true, then I’m suddenly much less sympathetic to Padmé when Anakin finally Force-choked her. If there’s a case of a semi-heroic politician being hoisted by their own petard for their bad deeds, that must be it.

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Maybe I’m not remembering right but I didn’t get any of that from the Revenge of the Sith novel.

Then again I tend to totally ignore the TCW lore due to it not meshing with the canon of the Clone Wars era and shove it off into Disney Wars.

DarthOne said:

Maybe I’m not remembering right but I didn’t get any of that from the Revenge of the Sith novel.

Then again I tend to totally ignore the TCW lore due to it not meshing with the canon of the Clone Wars era and shove it off into Disney Wars.

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QFMFT.

As far as my head canon is concerned, this is the only legit 'Clone Wars' there are.

DarthOne said:

Maybe I’m not remembering right but I didn’t get any of that from the Revenge of the Sith novel.

Then again I tend to totally ignore the TCW lore due to it not meshing with the canon of the Clone Wars era and shove it off into Disney Wars.

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I think it is best to demote it in canonicity for the parts that are part of the old EU. There are some good ideas that should be stolen, or good ideas in principle that can be salvaged. I think pacifist Mandos can work, but they need to be one faction among many. And make sure they are still Mandos, they might be nice and peaceful, but still have a martial culture and be perfectly willing to fold you like an accordion if you decide to mess with them. And stick them on that other planet, what-you-call-it, the desert one. Not Mandalore. The way I see it is that Pacifist Mandalorians is dumb idea, but a subset of Mandalorians being pacifist in a Mandalorian way would make sense and add cultural diversity to them.

I'd say keep Ashoka, but have her not be Anakin's padawan; since it does not make sense. Her being Plo Koon's student makes 100% sense and they have a pre-existing relationship. Her hanging with Anakin can be excused with her being friends with him and Obi-wan- and Plo being busy and trusting them with watching her.

Hlaalu Agent said:

I think pacifist Mandos can work, but they need to be one faction among many. And make sure they are still Mandos, they might be nice and peaceful, but still have a martial culture and be perfectly willing to fold you like an accordion if you decide to mess with them. And stick them on that other planet, what-you-call-it, the desert one. Not Mandalore. The way I see it is that Pacifist Mandalorians is dumb idea, but a subset of Mandalorians being pacifist in a Mandalorian way would make sense and add cultural diversity to them.

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Armed neutrality is literally the closest you should ever get to pacifism when it comes to the Mandalorians. Satine could have been one who preferred to use her words, but still sits on the throne of Mandalore, in armour, weapon at her side. Indeed, most of the plot concerning the Mandalorians should have been about the Republic and the CIS trying to convince them to join their side.

Anyway, some more AI-generated fan content:

Lord Sovereign said:

Armed neutrality is literally the closest you should ever get to pacifism when it comes to the Mandalorians. Satine could have been one who preferred to use her words, but still sits on the throne of Mandalore, in armour, weapon at her side. Indeed, most of the plot concerning the Mandalorians should have been about the Republic and the CIS trying to convince them to join their side.

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It honestly feels like They really wanted Obi-Wan's love interest to be Breha, but realized that would mean that she'd be essentially two-timing Bail so they took Fioni's idea of wanting to expand on Mandalore and the character of Satine and meshed the two ideas together even though Mandalore and Alderaan are quite literally on two opposite ends of each other. Nothing about Satine fits Mandalore from her design (outfit wise) to her personality or even her dialect. and it's a real darn shame too because I honestly think had they made Satine an actual warrior queen I think A. Her relationship with Obi-Wan would have been a lot more interesting and B. It would have sort of driven home one of the main characteristics of Obi-Wan. Just because he doesn't go straight to violence doesn't change the fact that when the time calls for it he can kick your butt. We could have gotten several scenes of the two playing real well off each other and it could really show how the Jedi and The Mandalorians despite being enemies in the past might have more in common than one would initially think.

Also going with this I think Satine should have had more of a Samus Aran or Commander Shepard-type voice as opposed to the queen Elizabeth voice we got and I know Anna Graves could have pulled that if asked.

I've seen quite a few fans theorize that Satine was actually intended as an F-you to Karen Traviss, who had become wildly unpopular with both the fandom and Lucasfilms for her aggressive taunting and flaming of fans at that point. And since her thing was super-powerful warrior Mandalorians...

Well, since we’re on the subject, I don’t suppose the Mandos had their own 2nd Amendment equivalent?

Pretty self-explanatory why they would, though on the other hand… weapons and martial prowess are so ingrained in Mandalorian culture and identity, that maybe there’s no need to codify a Right to Keep and Bear Arms (TM). At the very least, we can bet Satine had robust laws against that during her few brief decades in power.

Jaenera Targaryen said:

EDIT: I personally think Darth Sidious had the most 'native' power in the Force out of any Sith Lord, where other Sith had to use rituals, magic, and alchemy to make themselves stronger. I mean, going by feats, he doesn't really come close to Naga Sadow or Exar Kun, who could blow up stars, even if they had to use alchemically-crafted crystals to channel the power to do so.

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In all fairness to Sidious' feats for most of his existence he didn't really have the need to. The total lack of peers or ambitious underlings meant he never had any rivals to contend with really, and frankly the system he set up was pragmatic from an evil wizard perspective. My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that unless specific rituals are set up (the aforementioned Nathema comes to mind) suffering empowers the dark side equally no matter the source. In that respect reconfiguring the galactic government to maximize suffering while leaving him free to pursue his spooky dark side research full time was just good thinking.

Even the Death Star idea was like this, sure some ancient Sith might look down on it for being mere technology and only capable of destroying a planet rather than a star; but Naga Sadow and Exar Kun had to show up in person, get things all set up, and then do their big Dark Side hullaballoo to blow up a star. Had the Death Star not been destroyed, Sidious would've just had to make a five minute call to Tarkin and then go back about his business.

Bear Ribs said:

I've seen quite a few fans theorize that Satine was actually intended as an F-you to Karen Traviss, who had become wildly unpopular with both the fandom and Lucasfilms for her aggressive taunting and flaming of fans at that point. And since her thing was super-powerful warrior Mandalorians...

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Traviss went way overboard with Mandalorian wank, but it seems like they went much too far the other way with the Clone Wars. Mandalorians are a warrior society, they always have been, and that makes them both aggressive and martially proficient. Satine absolutely is a traitor to everything her people stand for.

So how bad would things have gotten if Traviss and Kenedy collaborated on a project?

Typhonis said:

So how bad would things have gotten if Traviss and Kenedy collaborated on a project?

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Traviss and Denning collaborated, and that resulted in poorly-contructed narrative, in which the authors didn't understand the established lore or the saga's themes, the characters frequently acted very much out of character, the authors' pet characters were shamelessly wanked, hope and optimism were replaced with edginess and nihilism, previous character development was walked back, and the son of Han and Leia turned to the dark side and became a fascist mass murderer.

I'm not even joking.

Skallagrim said:

Traviss and Denning collaborated, and that resulted in poorly-contructed narrative, in which the authors didn't understand the established lore or the saga's themes, the characters frequently acted very much out of character, the authors' pet characters were shamelessly wanked, hope and optimism were replaced with edginess and nihilism, previous character development was walked back, and the son of Han and Leia turned to the dark side and became a fascist mass murderer.

I'm not even joking.

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. . . So, in other words, what we got anyway?

S'task said:

. . . So, in other words, what we got anyway?

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Yes. We got this dumb shit twice. What Disney did was basically just "put Legacy of the Force and Jedi Prince into a blender, and add a sprinkle of 'Palpy comes back!' from Dark Empire".