Alternate History Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
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Off the top of my head and with minimal checking I think it looks pretty good for Nixon. Ike won in a landslide and that suggests either the electorate was happy with how things were going or Adlai Stevenson was a terrible candidate. Nixon would have been in office for almost a year so would see the benefits of incumbency unless he managed to ruin everything in that time. This is also before televised presidential debates so he can't make the mistakes he made against Kennedey in 1960 OTL.
Now, what an early Nixon administration looks like is a different question, as is 1960. I can't remember off-hand if having finished Eisenhower's term makes Nixon ineligible to run in 1960, but if he's able to run it's an open question if incumbency is enough to overcome the charisma gap in the first televised election. If he's termed out I have no clue who runs.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Several ideas that recently popped into my head that I wanted to discuss, but can't seem to have the courage to progress it beyond the planning stage at the moment:
1) Huey Long survives the assassination attempt on his life, and how would that affect American politics in the 1930s. Not sure if Long has a shot at becoming President, although it might be hard to create a scenario where Huey Long and Charles Lindbergh become popular in the United States.
2) Dmytro Vyshnevetsky IOTL had nearly defected to the Ottomans before he was ordered to build a fort in Mala Khortytsia and fortify the region. His temptation to defect was mainly caused by the Catholicization of the predominantly Orthodox Ruthenian lands. Say if Vyshnevetsky had actually defected to the Ottomans and their Crimean Tatar vassals, he would have posed a much bigger threat to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth than Sahaidachny and Bohdan Khmelnytskyi combined. I'm trying to go for the whole Cossack reunification of Ruthenia and conquering the Grand Duchy of Muscovy, before forming Russia or Ruthenia in this case. Basically the East Slavic version of the Manchu conquest of China, with the Muscovites playing the role of the Ming.
1) Huey Long survives the assassination attempt on his life, and how would that affect American politics in the 1930s. Not sure if Long has a shot at becoming President, although it might be hard to create a scenario where Huey Long and Charles Lindbergh become popular in the United States.
2) Dmytro Vyshnevetsky IOTL had nearly defected to the Ottomans before he was ordered to build a fort in Mala Khortytsia and fortify the region. His temptation to defect was mainly caused by the Catholicization of the predominantly Orthodox Ruthenian lands. Say if Vyshnevetsky had actually defected to the Ottomans and their Crimean Tatar vassals, he would have posed a much bigger threat to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth than Sahaidachny and Bohdan Khmelnytskyi combined. I'm trying to go for the whole Cossack reunification of Ruthenia and conquering the Grand Duchy of Muscovy, before forming Russia or Ruthenia in this case. Basically the East Slavic version of the Manchu conquest of China, with the Muscovites playing the role of the Ming.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
I thought Long was going for a weird kind of American version of a mixture of nationalism, populism, and socialism. I was going for the whole "American Reich" in a similar but different scenario to The Man in the High Castle. Basically, America would be semi-fascist, but chaos neutral if they have a second civil war involving leftists, loyalists, and nationalists.
Dunno about 1,but 2 - possible,bit not very probable.Wiśniowieccy were polish magnats/gentry ,so they cherished their political freedom,something which Ottomans never delivered.
Basically,our gentry thought about themselvas as political nation first,religion was in second place.
But,if such thing occured,they could take Moscov.Next? war with Ottomans,becouse they do not want to be vassal anymore.After that....who knews?
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
The Wisniowiecki that became Polish magnates only happened in the later half of the 16th century. Dmytro Vyshnevetsky was born in 1510, and before they became Catholicized, they were originally Orthodox Ruthenian nobles.
I needed to find someone who is more of an expert in Ukrainian history, because this is an area that I know almost nothing about.
I needed to find someone who is more of an expert in Ukrainian history, because this is an area that I know almost nothing about.
Buba
A total creep
For quite a few such families this transition involved a Protestant episode.
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Don't know enough to say on the 2nd. On the 1st assuming FDR becomes President - it might be different if the assassination attempt on him succeeded - I can't see Long becoming President. However he might split the Democrats enough to let in a right winger at some point.
He had aspects of fascism about his but also a lot of old fashioned popularist and much of his plans seemed to be for infrastructure spending and spreading the wealth so wouldn't have been too different from socialism in a number of ways although his support seemed to be more rural based.
One other aspect with him was he was deeply isolationist so if he did get into power, especially say 1940 or before, it is likely to be very bad for the world unless butterflies mean the western democracies defeat Hitler before they have to fight Japan!
I only knew that gentry considered their political freedom as thing most important then religion.If they go to turks,they would not be happy.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
True.
I would think that the absence of American aid would make defeating Germany a bit harder for the Allies, especially regarding the Battle of the Atlantic. That would mean more U-Boat siblings of Allied shipping, which may make the North African theater a brutal bloodbath like the Eastern Front. Would it be safe to say that Huey Long’s pseudo-socialism might be more like OTL Maoism minus the insanity?
I would think that the absence of American aid would make defeating Germany a bit harder for the Allies, especially regarding the Battle of the Atlantic. That would mean more U-Boat siblings of Allied shipping, which may make the North African theater a brutal bloodbath like the Eastern Front. Would it be safe to say that Huey Long’s pseudo-socialism might be more like OTL Maoism minus the insanity?
Maoism was genocidal,but not insane - they genocided those who in their opinion do not belong to new,brave world.
Aside from that -
Germany would still manage to lost thanks to Adolph the idiot - but,as a result,soviet would get entire Europe.True dystopia with two leftist states trying to conqer Earth.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Also in the Huey Long scenario, Japan didn’t attack Pearl Harbor yet, so that would be a shocking scenario indeed: a three way Cold War between the Allies, Soviets and Japanese.
rather red USA,soviets and Japan.England would lost their empire to them,and soviets could invade what was left.
He [Long] might be willing to sell to the allies as long as they have assets. That was Wilson's approach in WWI after all. However if France fell as OTL Britain would be forced to make peace probably by early 41 at the latest. It would require some butterfly that the OTL sickle cut attack doesn't occur, for instance if Hitler get his desired Nov 39 attack in the west.
Difficult to tell with Long as don't know enough about him. Plus whether he would be able to establish a lasting 'rule' or simply be replaced in 4-8 years by someone else.
History Learner
Well-known member
First, I'm extremely happy to have you here dude; always loved your work. Specific to your questions, here is what Long's platform looked like:
- Cap personal fortunes at $50 million each — equivalent to about $600 million today (later reduced to $5 - $8 million, or $60 - $96 million today)
- Limit annual income to one million dollars each (about $12 million today)
- Limit inheritances to five million dollars each (about $60 million today)
- Guarantee every family an annual income of $2,000 (or one-third the national average)
- Free college education and vocational training
- Old-age pensions for all persons over 60
- Veterans benefits and healthcare
- A 30 hour work week
- A four week vacation for every worker
- Greater regulation of commodity production to stabilize prices
As for how to get him elected, have FDR assassinated in 1933. Garner would still do the First New Deal but he was opposed to the second, being in favor of a balanced budget; such would likely trigger the OTL 1937 Recession in 1935 or so, and the fact Garner did not support the Wagner Act would mean Long could poach Labor from the Democrats if he ran as independent or attract them to himself in a bid to unseat Garner through the Democrat Party itself. He could probably win in 1936 with that, unless a sufficient coalition of Democrats and Republicans happens, in which case he pulls an Andrew Jackson and gets in via the 1940 election.
That assumes that Roosevelt's prescription for the economy was correct. That is still disputed among those not invested in maintaining the Roosevelt coalition.
History Learner
Well-known member
I'm assuming you're referring to that UCLA study about the National Recovery Act? However, I'm not even passing a judgement on that; I was saying Garner wouldn't do the Second New Deal and as a result Long could unseat him.