Alternate History Map Thread
- Thread starter Basileus_Komnenos
- Start date
Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Well, you can see that it was done by a non-Pole. First of all you can see some mistakes in names of some places, but relatively few. And the lore of this map, well, let me keep it quiet.
And the internal borders don't make sense along with the names. Seriously, except for Kujawy and Silesia, they are just city names! And that's without even the variety they should have.
The names should be
Poznań-Poznańskie or Wielkopolskie
Warsaw- Warszawskie or Mazowieckie
Łódź- Łódzkie (this region doesn't have a special name for itself, you could call it Centropolskie or Sieradzko-Łęczyński)
Radom - Radomskie or Sandomierskie because this region is called so, and here appear hopeless and senseless internal borders because Sandomierz was attached to the neighboring region next. What is even better, Sandomierz is the traditional capital of this region! And it was intended in the IIRP to create a new province in this area
Kraków- Krakówskie or Małopolskie
Rzeszów- Rzeszowskie or Podkarpackie
Lublin- Lubelskie or Lubelszczyzna
Białystok- Białostockie or Podlasie, Podlaskie (And here I feel like punching someone, Białystok became the capital of this region because after the war we lost Grodno! Without losing it it would still be the capital. Bialystok was a small village next to Grodno).
Okay, now another map from the same author as before. Here's a map of America in the 20th century!😝
Well since the big losers seem to be Russia, the Ottomans and Switzerland that was one hell of an odd alliance! Sorry just noticed that Sweden also lost heavily and not sure of the French borders? They definitely lost out in Tunisia and Morocco compared to OTL. Plus that old favourite of a revived Byzantium empire that also somehow includes Cyreniaca.
Austria is going to have issues with so many Slavs, especially in the south while their also lost their main access to the Adriatic so I would suspect relations between Rome and Vienna are rocky. Are kingdoms 6 & 7 some sort of revived crusader states?
Definitely odd but interesting.
OTTOMAN EAST AFRICA IN 1800 AD
Thoughts and comments?
Eparkhos
Well-known member
To be blunt, the Ottomans had a difficult time administering their territories in the Southern Red Sea IOTL, I find it hard to believe that they'd be able to maintain indirect rule on the eastern coast of Africa, let alone direct rule over large amounts of territory for centuries as shown here.In 1589, the Ottomans won, and Mombasa became Ottoman territory. The Age of Portuguese Dominance in the Indian Ocean came to an abrupt end as a result. By 1600 most of the independent Swahili city-states had sworn loyalty to the Ottoman Sultan or had been subjugated under the Ottoman heel. This was the beginning of a new era in African history. As the riches of the Swahili states started to pour into Ottoman coffers, the Ottomans turned their speculative gazes south, and the idea of making East Africa the 'Ottoman America' to gain and colonize riches in the likeness of the Western Europeans in North and South America began to take hold. This was first started by Egyptian Governor Ali Bey, who led an expedition to Darfur in 1599 AD, forcing the tribes of the region to swear loyalty to the Sultan. For the next few decades, the Ottomans solidified their control over the Swahili coast, bolstered by the construction of the Mehmediye Canal constructed from 1604 to 1621 between the Egyptian mainland and the Sinai Peninsula, allowing the Ottomans quick access to the region as well. Trade routes were propped up and the Ottomans consolidated in the region. Tensions with Oromo and Amhara tribes due to trade and the new boss in the region eventually led to the Ottoman-Ethiopian Wars of 1638-1659 which led to the Ottoman subjugation of the region, and the conversion of most elites in Ethiopia to islam, alongside the installation of an Islamic Ethiopian Emperor who declared suzerainty and vassalage to the Ottomans. The fall of Ethiopia to the Ottomans opened the so-called floodgates, and now Ottoman influence in East Africa was unchecked. No other European Power had the ability to project power in the region sufficiently to kick the Ottomans out - not with the Mehmediye Canal under Ottoman control. The Ottomans continued to increase their influence and power in the region in the 17th and 18th centuries, and when in 1798 Napoleon came knocking, with reinforcements from the Ottoman African south, the Ottomans kicked Napoleon out, capturing and killing the rogue French General. As the century turned in 1800 AD with uncertainty in the future for Europe amidst the Revolutionary Wars, the Ottoman Empire, and by extension, Ottoman East Africa was about to enter a time period of unmatched peace and prosperity.
OTTOMAN EAST AFRICA IN 1800 AD
Thoughts and comments?
P.S. What's with you and all the Turkwanks?
Saw Random Greek Wank #Infinity that would kill millions of Turks and Kurds for the sake of Megali Idea Borders with no remorse whatsoever, and decided to go against it. Besides, Muslim Nations are severely under-represented in AH in favor of Europe - who are predominantly Christian - so why not? My posts on North African Nations and Asian Nations is meant to continue that trend.
What's the maximum realistic Megali Idea that could be achieved without much ethnic cleansing? Greece's OTL borders plus Constantinople and the Straits plus Cyprus?
European Turkey, Cyprus and a salient around Smyrna/Izmir including the city. Even then, around ~500,000 - ~800,000 Muslims would be caught up in deep ethnic discrimination and cleansing as shown in the Turkish War of Independence. Going for full conquest of the Aegean and/or the Pontic Region would just result in a 60-40 Muslim Majority Greece after 1800/1850.
Oh, Yeah, I forgot about the Smyrna salient. 800,000 Muslims would be slightly over 15% of Greece's total population in 1921, which is comparable to both present-day Israel and present-day India and thus very tolerable if the Greeks would have actually been/became a bit more tolerant in the early 20th century:
The Dodecanese Islands I would presume are also fair game, just like in real life, right? Anyway, what about the Asian part of Constantinople?
As for the Trapezuntine Greeks, they can be either resettled in Greece en masse or incorporated into Georgia, Wilsonian Armenia, or a non-Bolshevik Russia if any of these will actually be viable alternatives to the first option here.
History Learner
Well-known member
No Timur is probably the biggest Ottoman-wank you can achieve. Very possible to get all of Persia and Justinian tier borders under those conditions.
Persia will still convert to Shi'a Islam beforehand to prevent this from occurring, no?
In 1589, the Ottomans won, and Mombasa became Ottoman territory. The Age of Portuguese Dominance in the Indian Ocean came to an abrupt end as a result. By 1600 most of the independent Swahili city-states had sworn loyalty to the Ottoman Sultan or had been subjugated under the Ottoman heel. This was the beginning of a new era in African history. As the riches of the Swahili states started to pour into Ottoman coffers, the Ottomans turned their speculative gazes south, and the idea of making East Africa the 'Ottoman America' to gain and colonize riches in the likeness of the Western Europeans in North and South America began to take hold. This was first started by Egyptian Governor Ali Bey, who led an expedition to Darfur in 1599 AD, forcing the tribes of the region to swear loyalty to the Sultan. For the next few decades, the Ottomans solidified their control over the Swahili coast, bolstered by the construction of the Mehmediye Canal constructed from 1604 to 1621 between the Egyptian mainland and the Sinai Peninsula, allowing the Ottomans quick access to the region as well. Trade routes were propped up and the Ottomans consolidated in the region. Tensions with Oromo and Amhara tribes due to trade and the new boss in the region eventually led to the Ottoman-Ethiopian Wars of 1638-1659 which led to the Ottoman subjugation of the region, and the conversion of most elites in Ethiopia to islam, alongside the installation of an Islamic Ethiopian Emperor who declared suzerainty and vassalage to the Ottomans. The fall of Ethiopia to the Ottomans opened the so-called floodgates, and now Ottoman influence in East Africa was unchecked. No other European Power had the ability to project power in the region sufficiently to kick the Ottomans out - not with the Mehmediye Canal under Ottoman control. The Ottomans continued to increase their influence and power in the region in the 17th and 18th centuries, and when in 1798 Napoleon came knocking, with reinforcements from the Ottoman African south, the Ottomans kicked Napoleon out, capturing and killing the rogue French General. As the century turned in 1800 AD with uncertainty in the future for Europe amidst the Revolutionary Wars, the Ottoman Empire, and by extension, Ottoman East Africa was about to enter a time period of unmatched peace and prosperity.
OTTOMAN EAST AFRICA IN 1800 AD
Thoughts and comments?
Interesting but could be very bad for E Africa with heavier slave raids and devastation even earlier than OTL.
Great Zimbabwe had been abandon for some centuries by the PoD I believe.
You are assuming that the Ottomans could achieve this without prompting a western response, as their threatening a continued monopoly of trade with S and E Asia which is very much against western interests. Its likely to be one thing the feuding European states could agree with.
Not saying its impossible but a lot of butterflies here as with most TLs.
[/CENTER]
A map depicting an alternate end to the Greek Civil War.
Why exactly wouldn't Free Greece control the Peloponnese here as well? It's very easy to defend, after all, considering that it is only barely connected to the rest of Greece by land.
The Marble Emperor's Revenge! - An Alternate Ending to the Greco-Turkish WarA map depicting Greece's borders after the Greco-Turkish Wars c. 1936 just prior to WWII
As you can see, in ttl, Greece emerged as a victor of the Greco-Turkish War, which in ttl is known also known as the Roman of Restoration within Greece. In ttl Greek propagandists and historians paint the war and the years following Greek independence as part of a larger national struggle for liberation. From an objective perspective, the success of the Balkan Wars and the subsequent Greco-Turkish Wars did allow Greece to emerge as a truly independent state free from economic hegemony under the French and British where it emerged as a strong regional power and the focus of the Orthodox world as Greece with control over Mt. Athos and the restored Patriarchate of Constantinople.
The main pod for this is that the Assassination attempt against King George I is thwarted, and thus Greece has a more pro-entente government which enters WWI earlier after the British promise Cyprus and Northern Epirus to the Greeks. One critical divergence from otl here is that Greece has a much more stable government. A major consequence of this is that the schism between the Venizelists and Constantine's supporters are avoided with King George serving as a mediator between both sides. Thus Prince Constantine is made the head of a better prepared Greek army which helps to relieve the Serbians and has a better military performance in the war which leaves it seen as a much more respected nation at the peace table. Here Greece manages to take Constantinople, but are forced to give it up as part of an international zone. Greece is instead compensated with land in Smyrna. In ttl, Attaturk is killed at Gallipoli leaving Turkey with much less competent government under the Sultanate.
With Smyrna under Greek occupation, the Megali idea of "liberating" the Greeks in Asia and creating a Trans-Aegan state becomes popular. And following King George's death after the end of the War, the new King Constantine takes the throne as "Constantine I and XII." As both Venizelos and Constantine were forced to compromise during the war, the two form a working relationship which leads to a general rapprochement following Constantine's ascension to the throne with the two united in a desire to realize the vision of a "Greater Greece." The Greco-Turkish War here results in a much better prepared and led Greek Army which manages to take over the Western Aegean with the Greek and French armies forcing the Turks to sign a humiliating peace deal after the Greeks capture the main army and eventually Anakara. This left Turkey to a very much reduced in size and out for revenge in the Second World War.
As for the French, Cilicia is ceded back to Turkey which forces many Cilician Armenians to flee to Greece and Armenia fearing reprisals from a vengeful Turkish army. Though the a Kurdish state is setup as a joint Anglo-French puppet alongside an independent Assyrian state. Here in ttl, rather than Wilsonian Armenia being created, the Armenia is a slightly bigger version of the First Republic with it having sea access by virtue of the port city of Batumi. This is a point of contention between the Georgia and Armenia, but these concerns are swept aside with the later rise of the Turkish State forcing the two to band together for mutual protection with Greek support who also allies with Kurdistan mirroring the interbellum "Little Entente" formed in the Balkans to contain a Revanchist Hungary.
With their hold on Constantinople tenuous, it is handed to Greece who re-establish it as their Capital where King Constantine crowns himself in a ceremony reminiscent of the Romans of old as Constantine XII fulfilling the legend of the Marble Emperor retaking the Imperial City. Though this title isn't initially taken seriously until after WW2 when the Empire was cemented as an enduring political entity. Within Greece King Constantine is seen as a highly popular figure (even more than otl) as a "liberator" for the Greeks. Prior to the seizure of Constantinople Prime minister Venizelos was assassinated by a Communist which shocked the public. And with fears of Bolshevism on the rise the Soviets winning the Russian Civil War and the later Battle of Warsaw, which causes the Venezelists rally around the Emperor who created a new more monarchical government. This coalition party of Conservatives, Nationalist, and Venezelists unite against the rising Red Tide sweeping through Europe. This sees a more nationalist government take hold rallying around the Emperor turning Greece into more of de-facto one party Royalist dictatorship.
While things look bright on the surface for the Greeks, the issue of Ethnic tensions remains which leads to a dark chapter in the human history as this period is rife with atrocities committed against each other. In accordance with the treaty of Lausanne, a population transfer was to take place. Though this ended causing a massive humanitarian crisis as millions of people were displaced from their homes.
And with the Fall of Poland and the Caucuses, many in Europe began to fear a wider Communist Revolution throughout Europe. And with the fall of the Caucuses to the Red Tide in the early 1920's, the Ottoman Sultan was overthrown in favor of a shaky and short-lived Turkish Republic which too collapses further into civil war where a new Turkish Socialist Republic emerges victorious both friendly to Moscow and burning with a desire to retake its lost land and avenge its humiliation.
Within Germany, panic spread which led to instability within the Weimar Republic that led to its eventual downfall. Within Austria Kaiser Karl was able to reclaim his throne, and through a plebiscite, managed regain South Tyrol except for Trentino following pro-Austrian riots leading to an internationally mediated plebiscite being held. This feeling of a mutilated victory would contribute to the rise of the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini in the 1920's.
The year is now 1936 and the young Empire of the Romans now finds itself on shaky ground as its surrounded by enemy nations and an unstable economic situation. Will the legacy of the Marble Emperor be preserved, or will it be smashed to pieces by the oncoming Red Tide?
What do you guys think of this map and lore? I'm thinking of making a larger map encompassing Europe around this time period if you guys are interested.
How many Russian refugees does Greece accept in this TL?
VictortheMonarch
Victor the Crusader
Kinda tired and don't wanna build a story for this map. but to put it plainly, this is a Sikh Empire of Punjab that extends into Persia. It's Sikh cause I like Sikhs and cause they ruled Punjab.
Homeland of the Old Folk
THE CONFEDERACY OF TECUMSIA
THE CONFEDERACY OF TECUMSIA
Thoughts and comments?
Kinda tired and don't wanna build a story for this map. but to put it plainly, this is a Sikh Empire of Punjab that extends into Persia. It's Sikh cause I like Sikhs and cause they ruled Punjab.
I expect a beautiful Sikh-Persian fusion culture to develop here. Somewhat similar to the Mughals, but without the Hindu influence and with a Sikh rather than a Muslim ruling class.