ASOIAF/GOT ASOIAF Ideas, Recs, and Discussion thread

Airedale260

Well-known member
So I just had an insane idea for an ASOIAF fic...crossed with the Ace Combat universe where instead of dragons, the Targaryens are ace fighter pilots and the like (maybe fighter aircraft are like BattleTech LosTech? Or maybe not, it seems like anyone with the money can get their hands on a plane in Strangereal...)

For some reason this just popped into my head while I'm working and listening to the AC7 soundtrack (Sol Squadron, where Trigger and Wiseman are fighting Mihaly over Farbanti).

Any thoughts in terms of fleshing this out? Or is it too much of a crack fic?
 

UltimatePaladin

Well-known member
(maybe fighter aircraft are like BattleTech LosTech? Or maybe not, it seems like anyone with the money can get their hands on a plane in Strangereal...)
Fixed that for you. :D

But, I guess my question is, where is the plot? If you go with fighters instead of dragons, that necessitates at least some level of technological advancement (unlike dragons, planes require fuel, munitions, maintenance, and the like.) And if you do that, what other changes to the setting or the plot would result?

It reminds me of a discussion where ASOAIF was changed to a more WWI-ish setting. Someone pointed out that there is a ton of stories that can be done with the idea... but someone else pointed out, how much of that would be left as ASOIAF. really? Instead of, in this case, ultimately Ace Combat (with ASOIAF characters.)
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
Fixed that for you. :D

But, I guess my question is, where is the plot? If you go with fighters instead of dragons, that necessitates at least some level of technological advancement (unlike dragons, planes require fuel, munitions, maintenance, and the like.) And if you do that, what other changes to the setting or the plot would result?

It reminds me of a discussion where ASOAIF was changed to a more WWI-ish setting. Someone pointed out that there is a ton of stories that can be done with the idea... but someone else pointed out, how much of that would be left as ASOIAF. really? Instead of, in this case, ultimately Ace Combat (with ASOIAF characters.)

Yeah it just seems like I could see the Dance of the Dragons between individual fighters but not air forces. Hence why maybe there was a loss of technology that makes it impossible to build new planes (or nearly so) and the resources to maintain them. And what happens when the monopoly of force falls apart.

Still, it was mainly a random musing on my part.

BTW it's good to see you; I enjoyed the crossover fic you did on SB.
 

Argent

Well-known member
Fixed that for you. :D

But, I guess my question is, where is the plot? If you go with fighters instead of dragons, that necessitates at least some level of technological advancement (unlike dragons, planes require fuel, munitions, maintenance, and the like.) And if you do that, what other changes to the setting or the plot would result?

It reminds me of a discussion where ASOAIF was changed to a more WWI-ish setting. Someone pointed out that there is a ton of stories that can be done with the idea... but someone else pointed out, how much of that would be left as ASOIAF. really? Instead of, in this case, ultimately Ace Combat (with ASOIAF characters.)

I think you could keep a lot of ASOIAF.

There are lots of Sci-Fi shows that still have a feudal goverment. The main stays of ASOIAF is that the story is a fedual poltical drama told with a background of high fantasy.

Look to shows like Legend of Galactic Heros to see how a feudal goverment works. Anthony has a Space Opera crossover on AH that still feels like ASOIAF.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest

Aegon VI and the GC go to Beleriand. Roughly around 456 or so of the first age.

Not a fan of the author(I have a lot of bad blood with Azrubel) but to give him his credit, this is a really good ASOIAF/Silmarillion crossover.

Is both on SB and AH.com for your recommendation.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
Cross posted-my second last post on the ASOIAF thread on SB.

Here's a WI

Indecisive Battle of the Trident

Rhaegar and Robert are both wounded but survive and both sides suffer around say 8,000-12,000 men killed each.

And so they withdraw and set up camp on opposite sides of the river.

Tywin already has seized KL-but there is no victor to hand the city to.

The way I see it, this can go a few ways, the two armies may clash again the next day or a few days later or both may withdraw and lick their wounds and summon more support.

This puts Tywin in an awkward position, he holds the city but hasn't declared for anyone(presumably). I am assuming he would have a contingency for an indecisive battle but he may not have. The only way logistically for Tywin to have reached KL was for him to have marched before the battle(during the weeks and days prior). And plan accordingly for whoever won.

Assuming no wildfire kaboom-Aerys will be in his former hand's custody, and so will Elia and the royal children. I only think Tywin would have them killed-if he was certain of Robert's victory, but if he marches to KL and enters the capital-forcibly or otherwise with reports coming in of no victor-he would not burn his bridges.

Either a second day of battle happens, or the war enters a longer protracted period-perhaps with both the rebels and royalists deciding to avoid another decisive battle or at least try to summon more support and dance around each other and provoke the other side into attacking first.

Politically speaking, Tywin has badly hurt his reputation both ways, his refusal to take a side and it being obvious he intends to play kingmaker and set terms to the victor cools both sides to him-thus neither Robert nor Rhaegar will be much inclined to give him what he wants. Rhaegar will be angry he took the capital and didn't march to his aid, and Robert will be angry Tywin obviously has no real loyalty to the rebel cause and just wants to cash in if he wins.

From this set up-you can have another battle either at the Trident or elsewhere to settle things decisively or have both sides in stalemate in the Riverlands. Tywin holding a restive capital and now having realized he has angered the victor whoever they are.

I don't see Tywin choosing a side at this juncture-as it will be seen as an insincere "Johnny come lately" act, but holding the capital for the victor and having their guaranteed ire regardless, also he would want to keep his options open and only side with the winner, not throw his already besmirched support behind a potential loser. Maybe both sides leave the Riverlands and try to seize the capital. Or choosing to fight-but that leaves their forces potentially weakened with a fresh Lannister army in control of KL. And thus able to hold it in the event of a siege or have even more leverage over the victor. That would definitely put commanders on both sides in a bit of a bind.

But thoughts?

TLDR: Tywin seizes the capital as canon but Trident is indecisive and both armies are intact, so they have to deal with Tywin now having set himself up as kingmaker holding the capital awaiting a winner.

If Rhaegar wins-he can punish Tywin for imprisoning his father and mother, if Robert wins-Tywin gets less to nothing, given he took the capital and only declared for Robert afterwards.

I could see Rhaegar moving towards the capital-to rescue his family, if he did not he looks weak to his supporters. Which means Robert can attack him from the rear.

You could have a lot of drama with both sides waiting for what choice Tywin might make-if he sides with the Targs, then the rebels have to prepare for a long siege with fresh troops defending the capital as well as Rhaegar's army being reinforced. If he sides with the rebels-Rhaegar is in between a rock and a hard place.

Given the fog of war-I don't find the above scenario too implausible. And I always found the Lannister's march to KL in RR to be logistically SOD breaking.

@Ganurath thoughts?
 
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Ganurath

Well-known member
I think your assumption that Tywin would exercise restraint when he has an opportunity to exact revenge for perceived slights shows a poor understanding of his character, as well as the situation on the ground. First, Tywin's decisions and desires didn't impact Aerys getting run through by Jaime in canon one way or the other, and nothing in the scenario you describe would suggest that that scenario change. So, even if Tywin wasn't the patron saint of disproportionate retribution from canon, the Mad King dies on Jaime's sword. Additionally, Elia Martell and her children are all that stand, in Tywin's mind, between him and royal grandchildren. All he has to do is pin the blame for their demise on Aerys's people, citing madness and paranoia against the Dornish, and he'd have a plausibly deniable way to get away with it that Rhaegar wouldn't be able to call him out on. It's bull, of course, but it's the same sort of bull that let him get away with organizing the Red Wedding.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
I figured that would be your response, and yes that would weaken his position. Tywin ordered Elia and her children's butchery to prove his loyalty to Robert-now yes you can argue it was avenging slights, but Tywin had a suitable pretext that he got Robert Baratheon to believe-and the realm to accept if not the Dornish-Tywin's vengeful acts are shielded by a skin of plausible realpolitik. Here doing so would only be deniable under the fog of war.

There's also the fact that I disagree, with the idea that Tywin can not act prudently-he was hand for twenty years and didn't order amory lorch to butcher some lickspittle of Aerys-just because his pride was savaged.

Tywin can restrain his fury, even if he needs a cathartic valve at some point.

With all that said-the point is that Tywin takes the capital with the war undecided, and he himself not having declared for anyone. He declared for Robert after his victory on the trident-if he has no information but is marching for the capital anyway.

Tywin would be taking the capital, and holding it with the war undecided. The key difference in canon is the war was decided-now Tywin has acted too soon. Now everyone knows Tywin intends to play kingmaker, and any shred of plausibility of acting beyond naked self interest is gone.

That to me is interesting in that for one-it puts Tywin in a hard position with no easy outcome, and two it changes the dynamics of the war-as both sides must take the capital, or get the Lannisters to join from a position of strength(i.e. they hold the capital).

Kevan: "Rhaegar and Robert still live, we hold the capital but have angered both the Targaryens and Robert, it is a poisoned chalice from which we drink"
Tywin: "I shouldn't have marched so soon".
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Say, what do you guys think it would take Tywin to be more "compassionate" or at the very least of a constant opinion that Westeros can be BETTER?

Maybe with constant looks at all the dirt and primitiveness and lack of literacy and looking on and thinking stuff like "I rule over poor morons" and "nobody has any vision beyond getting more lands and richer, no real use for those lands, no real plans on advancing"

And maybe stuff like "I doubt the majority of people even KNOW how to properly use their money" and the like
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
I figured that would be your response, and yes that would weaken his position. Tywin ordered Elia and her children's butchery to prove his loyalty to Robert-now yes you can argue it was avenging slights, but Tywin had a suitable pretext that he got Robert Baratheon to believe-and the realm to accept if not the Dornish-Tywin's vengeful acts are shielded by a skin of plausible realpolitik. Here doing so would only be deniable under the fog of war.

There's also the fact that I disagree, with the idea that Tywin can not act prudently-he was hand for twenty years and didn't order amory lorch to butcher some lickspittle of Aerys-just because his pride was savaged.

Tywin can restrain his fury, even if he needs a cathartic valve at some point.

With all that said-the point is that Tywin takes the capital with the war undecided, and he himself not having declared for anyone. He declared for Robert after his victory on the trident-if he has no information but is marching for the capital anyway.

Tywin would be taking the capital, and holding it with the war undecided. The key difference in canon is the war was decided-now Tywin has acted too soon. Now everyone knows Tywin intends to play kingmaker, and any shred of plausibility of acting beyond naked self interest is gone.

That to me is interesting in that for one-it puts Tywin in a hard position with no easy outcome, and two it changes the dynamics of the war-as both sides must take the capital, or get the Lannisters to join from a position of strength(i.e. they hold the capital).

Kevan: "Rhaegar and Robert still live, we hold the capital but have angered both the Targaryens and Robert, it is a poisoned chalice from which we drink"
Tywin: "I shouldn't have marched so soon".

Won’t actually change. Tywin said that when he moved against KL it was to be in such a way that “no one could doubt [he] had forsaken House Targaryen forever.” Once he starts attacking, Aerys gives the order to light the wildfire and to kill Tywin, and then Jaime impales him. There is no other way it can change short of rewriting all of their characters.

Say, what do you guys think it would take Tywin to be more "compassionate" or at the very least of a constant opinion that Westeros can be BETTER?

A personality transplant. Tywin is what he is because of a combination of factors, but probably the biggest is seeing how his father behaved and was treated. He also wasn’t keen on Aegon V’s reforms because they cut his power (and the rest of the nobility’s) in their favor.

Economic development isn’t really something he wants, lest it lead to merchants and workers getting “the wrong ideas” about their station in life compared to the lords. Plus it might undercut him personally.

He just doesn’t have the thought patterns necessary to make that kind of a leap of logic.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
A personality transplant. Tywin is what he is because of a combination of factors, but probably the biggest is seeing how his father behaved and was treated. He also wasn’t keen on Aegon V’s reforms because they cut his power (and the rest of the nobility’s) in their favor.

Economic development isn’t really something he wants, lest it lead to merchants and workers getting “the wrong ideas” about their station in life compared to the lords. Plus it might undercut him personally.

He just doesn’t have the thought patterns necessary to make that kind of a leap of logic.

I guess in an Industrial Revolution, he would actually do REALLY badly due to attitude alone

Or he finds himself and others swept by the rising bourgoise and an increase in firearms in the black market being produced
 

Airedale260

Well-known member
I guess in an Industrial Revolution, he would actually do REALLY badly due to attitude alone

Or he finds himself and others swept by the rising bourgoise and an increase in firearms in the black market being produced

Depends. He’s not stupid by any means, he just isn’t a trained economist or financier. If he were ISOTed, he’d be completely lost, but 12th-15th century feudal politics are very different from what occurred in the early modern and Industrial eras. If he came of age in the latter, he’d probably have a better handle on it, and be a cutthroat in business. He basically has the stature of a king in ASOIAF, but someone in his position wouldn’t really be able to do the kind of shit he did in say the late 18th century on without serious consequences.

He’s a product of his time. If there were an ongoing industrial revolution, though, he’d be encouraging it at least somewhat, since guess which kingdom is the biggest source of non-precious metals like iron and copper? Gold doesn’t just appear by itself, you see :)
 
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Deleted member 88

Guest
Won’t actually change. Tywin said that when he moved against KL it was to be in such a way that “no one could doubt [he] had forsaken House Targaryen forever.” Once he starts attacking, Aerys gives the order to light the wildfire and to kill Tywin, and then Jaime impales him. There is no other way it can change short of rewriting all of their characters.



A personality transplant. Tywin is what he is because of a combination of factors, but probably the biggest is seeing how his father behaved and was treated. He also wasn’t keen on Aegon V’s reforms because they cut his power (and the rest of the nobility’s) in their favor.

Economic development isn’t really something he wants, lest it lead to merchants and workers getting “the wrong ideas” about their station in life compared to the lords. Plus it might undercut him personally.

He just doesn’t have the thought patterns necessary to make that kind of a leap of logic.
That was only when he killed the Targaryen children and presented their bodies to Robert. Tywin would have sided with Rhaegar if the royalists had won.
 
Stannis in Tywin
D

Deleted member 88

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It was far more comfortable than he recalled it being on Dragonstone. The bedding was soft and luxuriant. The sheets silky and the covers warm and red in color.

He had gone to bed, intending to sail the next morning for the wall, to rescue the Night's Watch, and to save the realm. The sun was shining through a window. Stannis wiped at his eyes, to see the window was stained glass...with a lion in its center.

Was I captured by the Lannisters in the night? Why would I still live?

Waking up, he felt his skin, and his head. He had a head of hair and was not balding...something is not right.

Forcing himself out of the bed, he looked at the room around him. It was filled with Lannister and Lion livery, and with gold.

Something is amiss.

There was a mirror on the other corner of the room, and Stannis walked over to see it.

He looked at the mirror, and what he saw shocked him.

Instead of the man he had been...he had golden hair and green eyes, thinner than he was before, but still powerfully built. It was Lord Tywin who he saw...he was Lord Tywin.

But not Lord Tywin from when Stannis had last seen him, the man staring at him in the mirror was much younger, appearing not older than twenty namedays.

Suddenly the door opened...

"Brother, the Reynes have replied to your demand as you expected...they refused and have risen in rebellion against House Lannister".

Was this some jest from the gods he hated? A trick of his mind still asleep?

"I have two hundred men ready, and Lords Marbrand and Banefort have prepared for their banners, we can meet Lord Tarbeck and Reyne now before they have a chance to join together."

"Very good." Stannis managed to reply. "I, I will be ready shortly."

"Is, is something brother?"

"No, I just have not slept well these past few nights."

From the look, it appeared to be Ser Kevan.

Kevan did not seem to know how to reply to the admission, he looked confused as to whether he should give a word of encouragement or express concern.

"Our lord father has locked himself in his room, he has failed House Lannister, we need you now Tywin" Kevan said with an undertone of both respect and desperation.

"I will be ready shortly." Stannis replied.

"Leave me". Kevan bowed and obeyed, he treated him as though he was lord already.

If this was not some cruel trick of the gods, he was in 261 AC, nearly forty years before when he had gone to sleep." Before he was even born.

The gods have sent me into the body of Tywin in his youth, on the eve of his destruction of House Reyne and Tarbeck.


Stannis looked at the man in the mirror, and began to grind out his teeth.
 
Note on snippets
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Deleted member 88

Guest
So AH.com's ASOIAF threads allow for snippets and brief story content-I figured why not do the same. Story snippets and ASOIAF ideas put into story form-would allow for more than just discussion of wut ifs.

I was inspired by this idea on AH.com's discussion of Stannis inserted into Tywin on the eve of the Reyne Tarbeck rebellion. I may do more and maybe do a Tywin in Stannis counterpart.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman

Aegon VI and the GC go to Beleriand. Roughly around 456 or so of the first age.

Not a fan of the author(I have a lot of bad blood with Azrubel) but to give him his credit, this is a really good ASOIAF/Silmarillion crossover.

Is both on SB and AH.com for your recommendation.

...He doesn't have them sweep the battlefield does he?

SB'ers have this fetish with downplaying Tolkien due to all the times it won against their favorite settings in the Vs Board.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
...He doesn't have them sweep the battlefield does he?

SB'ers have this fetish with downplaying Tolkien due to all the times it won against their favorite settings in the Vs Board.

Huh, kind of like TES, or MLP. "No, your weak looking setting at a superficial level can't mulch our flashy setting" *a pony, an Imperial soldier, and a Hobbit* "Hahahaha, meat ginder goes brrrrr"
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
...He doesn't have them sweep the battlefield does he?

SB'ers have this fetish with downplaying Tolkien due to all the times it won against their favorite settings in the Vs Board.
Eh? They beat the elves in the second last chapter through deception and surprise. And also sustain losses against Ungoliant’s spawn in the valley of Nan Dungortheb.

It’s mostly Connington focused.

Azrubel has become a fan of Aegon VI and his crew.

I don’t think he de powers Tolkien, at least not beyond what serves the story.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Huh, kind of like TES, or MLP. "No, your weak looking setting at a superficial level can't mulch our flashy setting" *a pony, an Imperial soldier, and a Hobbit* "Hahahaha, meat ginder goes brrrrr"

Facehugger seriously debated me for 20 pages on Mihawk from One Piece, Samurai Jack and Fingolfin vs US Marines because and I quote "intended portrayal matters more than feat wank"-This was an Admin venturing into Vs after he hadn't debated in vs in 13 years..solely to argue "the mere fact that a character has a sword means they're intended to be portrayed as just guys with swords and therefor autolose against guns"

There was also Numenor vs Valyria..which had Leo1 hyperventilate and accuse anyone defending Numenoreans of being cryptofascists after he got dragged for thinking Numenoreans with their proto tac nukes couldn't smash the Freehold

Octavian was the biggest offender of it. Because he kept losing debates to myself and Mak Tau over Tolkien..so..yeah.

It became a vendetta for him.

Childish shit

Eh? They beat the elves in the second last chapter through deception and surprise. And also sustain losses against Ungoliant’s spawn in the valley of Nan Dungortheb.

...How..do..they..beat the Elves even with trickery?

Lemme read and find out, but it better not be masturbatory bullshit.

Shame too because he's a decent writer.
 
D

Deleted member 88

Guest
Facehugger seriously debated me for 20 pages on Mihawk from One Piece, Samurai Jack and Fingolfin vs US Marines because and I quote "intended portrayal matters more than feat wank"-This was an Admin venturing into Vs after he hadn't debated in vs in 13 years..solely to argue "the mere fact that a character has a sword means they're intended to be portrayed as just guys with swords and therefor autolose against guns"

There was also Numenor vs Valyria..which had Leo1 hyperventilate and accuse anyone defending Numenoreans of being cryptofascists after he got dragged for thinking Numenoreans with their proto tac nukes couldn't smash the Freehold

Octavian was the biggest offender of it. Because he kept losing debates to myself and Mak Tau over Tolkien..so..yeah.

It became a vendetta for him.

Childish shit



...How..do..they..beat the Elves even with trickery?

Lemme read and find out, but it better not be masturbatory bullshit.

Shame too because he's a decent writer.
Facehugger seriously debated me for 20 pages on Mihawk from One Piece, Samurai Jack and Fingolfin vs US Marines because and I quote "intended portrayal matters more than feat wank"-This was an Admin venturing into Vs after he hadn't debated in vs in 13 years..solely to argue "the mere fact that a character has a sword means they're intended to be portrayed as just guys with swords and therefor autolose against guns"

There was also Numenor vs Valyria..which had Leo1 hyperventilate and accuse anyone defending Numenoreans of being cryptofascists after he got dragged for thinking Numenoreans with their proto tac nukes couldn't smash the Freehold

Octavian was the biggest offender of it. Because he kept losing debates to myself and Mak Tau over Tolkien..so..yeah.

It became a vendetta for him.

Childish shit



...How..do..they..beat the Elves even with trickery?

Lemme read and find out, but it better not be masturbatory bullshit.

Shame too because he's a decent writer.

From the elves perspective. The way he handled it struck me as fairly sensible.
 

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