strunkenwhite
Well-known member
I suppose I must have misinterpreted what you meant by "entirely", since you cited evidence that it was already happening.
United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread
- Thread starter Tyzuris
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Airedale260
Well-known member
Hey, you have to start somewhere.
Well, my perception of that is based on a lot of what I see on the board with users clamoring for purges of RINOs (and the impression I get is that people like Ben Sasse or Liz Cheney are included in that description, despite that being incredibly innacurate), or me getting tarred as a Democrat because I have a real problem with how Trump did a lot of things. Not over policy so much (unless you count me being irritated over the out-of-control spending side) but the fact that it’s a lot harder to argue, for example, for secure borders when Trump is living down to the caricature of every conservative ever.
I don’t mind the GOP shifting to a populist bent; what I mind is 1) this disturbing “fidelity to Donald Trump in particular” as opposed to a synthesis of establishment and populist conservatism, which is why the GOP had success in 2010 and 2014, not just 2016; and 2) the whole “It’s all over forever” fatalism over losing an election, despite the left doing it in 2004 and 2016, or the right in 2008. As we’ve seen, however, there is always a chance to change things if people are willing to work within the process.
Right now, yes, the Democrats are the majority, but barely. They lost seats in the House, and damn near lost the Senate (which they only won because of Trump depressing voter turnout among Republicans and boosting it among Democrats), and they don’t even have a majority of state legislatures.
And I do think, just as in 2008, Biden and Co are going on a tear to remind the American people why the Democrats were checked after the first two years under Obama. So if anything it’s keeping a sharp eye on what he and the others are doing, then nailing them for it in 2022.
By themselves, no, the establishment wing can’t win and they know it. The thing with McSally was, the Arizona GOP is a dysfunctional mess between those who think Trump was too extreme and Trump was too moderate. It also didn’t help that, love him or hate him, John McCain was widely liked among Arizona voters, including Republican ones, and Trump’s trashing of him really didn’t help.
Personally, I’m of a mind that we need populists on board because the technocrats AKA The Establishment have failed. But they still make up a significant slice of the party, and then you have the independents who really just want to be left in peace and not have insane policies rammed through, nor do they want someone who constantly posts on Twitter without any regard for what’s being said. Calvin Coolidge once said the words of a president matter greatly, so when the president speaks he should do so with care. Not that other recent presidents have been great shakes in this regard; it’s that Trump was uniquely bad in this respect.
Frankly, while I do think a fair amount of what Trump did was long overdue and will have a lasting impact, I’m tired of him personally. If he were to sit behind the scenes and be a kingmaker, I could live with that. But given that Trump is an extreme narcissist who has to be the center of attention at all times, I don’t see it working.
And yes, I’ve shot my own mouth off a bit too much on here, too, I admit that. It’s just that I really don’t have much patience for someone like Trump, who spouts off with BS, and I also really don’t like being told I’m not a conservative or a Republican because I don’t genuflect at the altar of Trump, nor at the altar of pointless despair.
Not that that’s directed at you, either, just that it’s why I’ve butted heads on here.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Unfortunately, the facts don't seem to bear out your assertion. This country has been in a downward spiral for decades, tracing back to at least as far as the cold war; with the only break from it being the fact that an outsider like Trump managed to win the presidency. He's gone now, and we are right back on track to the self-destruction of this country. The Republican establishment aren't just incapable of winning; they are actively sabotaging any attempt to do so. They are controlled opposition that exploit your tribalistic baser instincts to get you to waste your time and effort. Even when they do win (or, more accurately, are allowed to win), they do nothing but allow the Democrats to make this country weaker and more authoritarian, or do so themselves.
The process doesn't allow for change anymore; it is in fact corrupted to the point where it is now designed to actively suppress and oppose it. You don't have to like Trump; he was a narcissistic jerk who won because of a fluke, and probably had no idea what he was doing. But the fact of the matter is that he was a chance at real change in the government; a chance that is now lost to us, and won't come again any time soon.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
I agree that history firmly points in this direction; but that was without Trump on the scene, so ... guess we'll find out.
LindyAF
Well-known member
Bringing up Liz Cheney and Ben Sasse is interesting, because while neither of them has faced any sort of real consequences, Liz Cheney at least voted to impeach Trump, and Ben Sasse has at least signaled support for impeachment as well. Which really puts into perspective, I think, who is trying to purge who. And no, this isn't limited to Trump. Steve King and Marjorie Taylor Greene were both censured by their own party and lost committee assignments. King for getting maliciously misquoted by the New York Times, Greene I think for sharing a youtube video years ago or something, or wearing a shirt.
This extends beyond the legislature and to activism as well. Like half the writers at VDARE are there because national review purged them. tpusa has fired people for even talking to America First nationalists. I have seen this play out first hand. I have literally had a friend get SWATTED by a never-trump, establishment type incensed that he had lost out for a leadership position, after the never-trumper spent years being the go-to guy for when the local left wanted someone ostensibly on the right to back up their smears.
I'm sorry you've been called mean names online. But if the moderates want to get treated with kid gloves, they need to be returning the favor. It's a two way street, they don't get to continually be reaching out and wishing for a center left-right coalition against the fringes and then turn around and wonder why they're not treated like allies.
I think the extent to which there is a "fidelity to Donald Trump in particular" is vastly overstated. Donald Trump is a useful wedge because many of the neocons and establishment can't stand him, and GOP voters and grassroots people for the most part really like Trump. There's also some distrust of what's perceived as any establishment-backed populism, or establishment figures trying to adopt populist rhetoric, and so distrust of "Trumpism without Trump" for that reason. But there are plenty of Nationalists who have been critical of him, mostly for going back on some of his 2016 rhetoric and governing more or less like a normal republican. Pedro Gonzalez over on American Greatness has been very critical of Trump having any continued role, from a nationalist perspective, and he doesn't get too much heat for it. On Jan 6th many nationalists, myself included, were furious at Trump, for turning his back on and disavowing people who died for him. A leader ought to put himself on the front lines with his supporters.
I think this is also evidenced by the fact that all of the nationalists I know personally or even know of favored Sessions over Tuberville, despite Tuberville getting Trump's backing.
I disagree with the people despairing over one lost election as well. I disagree that we should be scrupulously adhering to "working within the system," especially since that can mean focusing on electioneering and evangelism, which is what conservatives seem to have mostly tried in my lifetime and has been largely a failure at actually changing policy, while the left captures Institutions and pressures for more power directly, which has worked out well for them. Moreover, I think the system is at this point actively hostile to my and my people's interests, to the extent that some actions outside the system is necessary. That doesn't mean it should be abandoned, but I think we need approaches both within and without the system.
Even so, much of what they've done isn't undoable. Neither Obamacare nor DACA were undone even with Republicans in total power. I agree that Biden isn't going to be the tipping point where they can ram through so much shit that it quickly alters the balance of power, but even if they still get just one thing through between 2020 and 2022 that can never be undone, we're still dying a death of a thousand cuts.
Edit: I think we're getting off topic, though. If a mod wants to move this discussion to a RINO Question thread or a conservative vs nationalist discussion thread or something, please do, so we're not clogging this one up.
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strunkenwhite
Well-known member
I wasn't aware that Greene was censured by the Republican Party and I wasn't able to immediately confirm. Do you have a source on this?
LindyAF
Well-known member
I was using the word in a lay sense rather than a legal sense. Formal censure by the house or senate isn't something that's within party. With the exception of Joe McCarthy, I think it's only been done for reasons of corruption since the 1860s. There was no resolution to condemn her as there was with Steve King, but both McConnell and McCarthy condemned her and eleven Republicans voted with the democrats to strip her of committee assignment, you can confirm this with wikipedia or a cursory search of the news.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
I think a reasonable person reading "censured by their own party and lost committee assignments" would think you were taking the position that the Republican Party either initiated or largely cooperated with attempts to strip her of her committee assignments, which is false. I don't know where you're getting the idea that McCarthy condemned Greene, since the comments I'm aware of took a very firm "hate the sin, not the sinner, now let's put this all behind us and forget it ever happened" tack. Greene played along and got a standing ovation, from what I recall. But I could have forgotten or missed information about either of those developments, so I welcome correction. (I do, however, recall McConnell denouncing her—not by name, but as good as.)
"11 out of 210 Republicans, none of whom were top leadership, voted to censure her" isn't at all what I got out of "her own party censured her". (Although I confess to having no real idea of how important or unimportant those 11 are in the House other than not being on the linked page.)
Or did you mean by censure "they said her previous comments were bad while defending her personally"?
[edit: in short, if you meant "censure" as a synonym for "scold", then never mind I guess but I think that's misleading]
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History Learner
Well-known member
Americans angry they may no longer qualify for $1,400 stimulus checks, say it feels like a 'targeted attack' on middle class
Some Americans say Democrats would be reneging on their campaign promise to provide $2,000 payments to struggling Americans by changing income limits.www.cnbc.com
Sucker.
Worth noting Canada has been paying $2,000 per month for coronavirus relief since March of last year while Brazil-yes, a borderline third world nation-has seen its poverty rate collapse during the pandemic. Reflect on that in of itself and then consider hunger and breadlines have become a thing in America again for the first time since the Great Depression.
Our ruling regime, of both parties and the associated structures (NGOs and businesses in particular), is downright evil.
And why do you think all the Biden voters are made when Biden said that they wont be getting the 2k checks, and instead will only get 1400. Biden said he would end it and return things to normal, yet he said he cant, and making things worse.
Americans angry they may no longer qualify for $1,400 stimulus checks, say it feels like a 'targeted attack' on middle class
Some Americans say Democrats would be reneging on their campaign promise to provide $2,000 payments to struggling Americans by changing income limits.
Sucker.
Considering that it's Republicans pushing for the lower limit, and Republicans who cut the second stimulus from $2000 to $600 in the first place, how are people "suckers" for voting Democrat? Even President Trump was all in for $2000, it had bipartisan support from Democrats and Trump Republicans, it was only McConnell's establishment crowd that blocked it.
And yet Biden is like "Lets make it 1400 since they already got 600".
It is all a show to gain support from both sides Shadow
I don't know! Lets look at the old ticker and find out!
https://usdebtclock.org/
The U.S. current debt is currently at twenty seven trillion! Eighty-four thousand per citizen! Two hundred and twenty-two thousand per tax payer!
(Fun fact! Like a real clock the debt clock can only go one direction!)
According to this site, the last president to actually keep his word on lowering the debt and cutting the bureaucracies was Eisenhower God rest his soul!
Eishenhower is based
History Learner
Well-known member
Ending the lockdowns does nothing to remedy the damage already done by COVID, nor is running up the national debt with American held debt even an issue to begin with.
Florida is doing amazing compared to the rest of the country.
So follow Florida
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Even after the promises they're not getting what they wanted.
If they really wanted the money they should do something really drastic the next election. Payment on hand before the vote. No paper on the hand no vote.
It's sad it has to come this way but if they want gibs that's the only way to ensure it'll happen.
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gral
Well-known member
On Brazil, I must add that the country is bankrupting itself to pay all the 'emergency' money that Congress voted to release - national deficit in April 2020(the month the money flood was authorized) alone was bigger than the 2019 one(I think the numbers were R$ 90 bi deficit for the whole of 2019 and R$ 100 bi for April 2020, but I'm not sure on that).
Even now, with President Bolsonaro already 'letting slip' the country is bankrupt, there is pressure to return the so-called 'Emergency Benefit'(popularly called 'Corona Voucher'), which was ended in December. Payments will probably return(although at one third of the value of before - R$ 200 instead of R$ 600).
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
I keep hearing this but I thought "increase from 600 to 2000" was always the plan, from Trump and AOC alike. Perhaps people got confused because the proposal before the 600 plan was passed was for 2000, but after the 600 plan was passed the proposal changed to 1400?
I have heard people saying there was a plan for 600+2000 both here and from leftists, but I haven't seen what the basis of the claim is.