You do know that ground det nukes are VERY radioactive compared to air burst
Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.
- Thread starter commanderkai
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Scooby Doo
Well-known member
Modern nukes only output around 2.5 rads a second.
Fallout nukes range from 8 to 8,000 rads per second.
The Glowing Sea was created by one nuke.
Scooby Doo
Well-known member
It targeted a Military installation but no mention of targeting nukes.
Considering the impact crater compared to how deep the other nuclear storage facilities are in Boston it's unlikely there was any nukes there, it's likely they struck a base of operations.
Keep in mind was is known in total only five nukes struck Commonwealth. Which likely the one we saw during the prologue
That's not accurate, at least as of 3, where the M199 was a conventional firearm and was still the US Army's official infantry weapon. Laser weapons were also used quite heavily, but they had not replaced firearms quite yet.
Also, when you say "high caliber".....no? The most common caliber you find in game is 5.56, followed by .308/7.62, which are standard and unremarkable rifle cartridges.
Yes, in that they double down on the 50s and 60s theme, and have purged nearly anything dating from the 80s or later. Fallout 2 had the G11 and caseless ammunition in use, that kind of thing would never appear again, with all pre-war firarms being depicted as mid century designs made of steel and wood, rather than the late 70s/80s polymer designs that 1 and 2 had.
Fallout 4 goes even farther, dumping the classic, modern style combat armor for a distinctly non-modern type, with a more 50s paint job and other design cues (rivets, leather belts and straps).
So did we, again back in the 60s. The fact that fallout took a MK 19 and made it a man portable weapon for dudes in power armor is not very impressive.
Eh, that doesn't establish that all the bombs that hit the commonwealth came from the Yangtze.
Scooby Doo
Well-known member
That was reconned the standard arm for Pre-War soldiers outside (Not domestically) was with Laser Weapons and Heavy Weapons, Ballistics like the 5.56 weapons were outdated.
They're outdated by the year of 2077. You're like comparing 1960's era equipment to 2022 era equipment just because there's some mothballed equipment.
The norm for FO forces was high tech or heavy like 50.cals or miniguns.
Fallout 4 also includes ballistic ballistic polymer weave. technology which is distinctly not 50's era tech.
You're just cherry picking and ignoring context lol, sure there's 50 Aesthetics but they've been moving away from that to automated VTOL Helicopters and Railgun Miniguns and such.
Yeah but you're arguing they're stuck on 50 aesthetics when we're seeing they're moving away from that.
It's like saying 2022 America is limited to 60's era technology and combat doctrine and tech because they still use the MK19 in service.
Up to interpretation then
It does confirm that the bombs that landed on the coast came from the Yangtze
The Glowing Sea is not too far from the coast and it was struck by the largest nuclear payload.
That was retconned where, exactly? Because You go looting in a ton of old military bases in the games, and firearms are always found there.
The R91 was still being used in active frontline service as of 2077, it's not at all outdated. Given the M series of rifles (such as the M199) was discontinued and the R series replaced it, it seems like the army, while still using the M199, was phasing it out in favor of the the R91 and ER series laser weapons.
Again, says who?
Ballistic weave (not ballistic polymer weave, I would note) is post-war, railroad-exclusive technology, likely stolen from the insitute, who, as an "advanced" faction, has equipment that's more in line with the norms of the 70s rather than 60s.
No, they haven't been "moving away" from the 50s, they've doubled down on it, constantly. Including in the very example you cite, where the fallout 4 vertibird was redesigned to be much closer in style and function to a Vietnam era Huey, and the gauss minigun is something that's been around in most of the games, and is a very rare, bleeding edge design not representative of the standard equipment of pre-war forces, just like every other gauss weapon in the history of fallout.
You also badly overestimate just how advanced gauss weaponry is, they're shown as a step above conventional sniper rifles (or HMGs in the case of the minigun), but not miles ahead.
I'm arguing they're stuck on the 50s/60s aesthetic because the design team has consistently doubled and tripled on that aesthetic at every turn, because it's part of the fallout franchise identity. What part of 4, where you wake up in your 50s house in your 50s neighbor with your 50s car in your driveway, talk to a 50s style door to door salesmen and then hear about the bombs dropping on your 50s black and white TV, says to you that they're "moving away from" the 50s?
Well, in real life, that doctrine was phased out in favor of a highly networked, precision doctrine built around computer networks sharing information and passing information up along the chain. Given that that doctrine is built around technology that fallout does not have, they obviously don't use it, much as they lack the precision guided munitions that define modern warfare. All of this pushes their doctrine very firmly back into the 50s.
The advanced technology that they do have, while impressive, not revolutionary on the scale you suggest. The gauss minigun is a bit more capable than an M2 browning. "A slightly better HMG" will not revolutionize warfare, and even having it be man-portable strikes me as of dubious utility over a standard LMG.
Scooby Doo
Well-known member
By Fallout 3 and 4 obviously.
Again weapons like the 5.56 caliber weapons is old equipment that would have been sitting gathering dust or given to local police and national guard.
Uh no Anchorage was in 2066 laser rifles started becoming more common after Anchorage.
The R91 was for the national guard which is to be expected they'd have old outdated equipment.
Fallout 3 & 4.
Bro it's literally Pre-War stash technologyIt's neither Institute or Railroad tech, you literally do quests for this and Dean even clarifies what it is.
The FO Gauss Minigun only existed in one game before reintroduced back in 76. I wouldn't say it's been in every game, it's been made more common in FO76 than any of the previous games which were limited to Gauss Rifles.
Considering the energy output for even pistols are listed in the megawatt range I don't think I'm underestimating how much energy a Gauss rifle can use to launch a projectile, it's going to be significantly faster than conventional ammunition.
50's design does not mean that it's limited to a 50's era performance.
The 50's most definitely didn't have VTOLS, Power Armored Infantry and Robotics and such. You're mixing appearance with performance.
Fallout does have that technology tho, they wouldn't be able to call in orbital strikes from their satellites if they weren't precise, like wise the Laser Designator from New Vegas shows they have the existing technology needed for precision.
Hells V.A.T.S literally debunks them not having precision or computer networks when they literally used automation to do a whole variety of tasks.
So food and power sources that can last two hundred years isn't good?
Full scale automation across the US isn't good?
An economy that can budget several hundred trillion dollars projects with in a decade while the economy is collapsing and they're occupying two countries at once is not revolutionary?
Neither their medicine?
I swear you low-ball Fallout soooooooooooo terribad, I wouldn't be surprised if you think 50's America could beat Pre-War America.
Fallout 3 explicitly said and showed the prewar military using R-91s and M199s.
Nor does your depiction of the NG being given older, cast off equipment line up with RL (where they use the same gear as the army). Nor does it match Fallout, where they also use the same armor, heavy weapons, genades, trucks, as the army, and where police have their own equipment used just by them (Eg, using .38 or .32 revolvers rather than M99 pistols), and on the rare occasions of them using military grade equipment (riot armor) it is on par with the military versions.
Anchorage fell in 2066, it was retaken in 2077, as shown in the operation anchorage DLC and mothership zeta (as the Anchorage front troops there are armed with R91s).
Furthermore, you are misreading the terminal entry from 3, which states that the R91 was standard issue for the NG. It does not say it that it was exclusive to the guard, just that because it was issued to the NG units in the area, the brotherhood can easily recover them.
It's neither Institute or Railroad tech, you literally do quests for this and Dean even clarifies what it is.
Ah, right, it's cutting edge spy technology not in line with regular gear, that totally changes the 50s theme where spies always never had advanced super gadgets (not that it matters, because bulletproof clothing predates the 50s).
Yes, because the writing team clearly did a bunch of math trying to figure out exactly how powerful the ray guns in their video game would draw if they were real, and the fact that somehow they never gave them performance to match at any point in the entire series is just some weird screw up, vs them consistently showing energy weapons to be sidegrades to firearms consistently in every game but once put down bad info in a throwaway terminal entry somewhere.
It doesn't mean it wildly exceeds 50s performance either, particularly when so much other technology does not exceed 50s performance either.
You have no data to actually establish performance metrics for either. Yes, they didn't have robots in the 50s, but the fallout robots are exactly as 50s sci-fi thought they would be. Slow, dumb, clunky, and overall incapable of matching human performance in anything bar narrow specializations.
They have 2 prewar superweapons capable of precision fire. That in no way establishes the existence of widespread precision guided weapons, particularly given those weapons very glaring absence everywhere else. Fallout jet fighter lack guided missiles, and instead rely on guns. Likewise, even Enclave vertibird lack guided weaponry.
The only instance of guided weaponry outside superweapons is the lock on mod for missiles in fallout 4, and that seems more like a gameplay feature rather than this particular model of rocket launcher having that ability (for one, the fire and forget feature is mutually exclusive with advanced optics. A real launcher would have both).
VATS proves they have advanced automation in the same way the PC's ability to instantly craft weapon mods and change clothes proves that fallout humanity has super speed.
Those are stock tropes of the genre. Is Last of Us humanity actually far ahead of us, because they have gas that lasts for decades, where IRL gas has a shelf life measured in months......or did the creators fudge things for the sake of the story?
Well, for one that doesn't exist, most factory work is still done by humans. For two, even if it did, that doesn't prove anything about their weapons being far more powerful than they appear.
Given the inflation in fallout, a several hundred trillion dollar budget is probably in line with a several hundred billion dollar budget in contemporary terms, so no it's not impressive.
Secondly, you're conflating bits of the old games (economic collapse) with the new ones that have ditched those elements, despite trying to take the evidence from later games that you think provide evidence of changes to weapons and use them to retcon the older games.
Third, even if was impressive, that doesn't prove they have incredibly powerful guns. Zimbabwe once had budget in the range of thousands of trillions of dollars, I guess they must have had super-powerful guns for those years.
No. I mean, we flat out out know Med-X is was supposed to just be morphine, which is not exactly some amazing super drug in real life. Given it's in-game effects vs what it really does, we can assume that other chems have effects that are likewise heavily inflated from thier "real" effects. There's no reason to assume that, say, Rad-X is anything more than just the fallout name for Potassium Iodide.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Does anyone else cherish the fact that Caesar's Legion effectively lives in Fallout Reddit's head rent free? All Legion Stans have to do is open their mouths and the Profligates start reeeing.
Bassoe
Well-known member
Scooby Doo
Well-known member
I would never join the Legion cause I don't want to rush machine gun nests wearing nothing but football armor or get crucified for fucking up once.
That's the only reason I need.
That's the only reason I need.
That's fair. Some measure of tactics and acknowledgement of the enemy's equpiment should be expected.
The funniest bit is how they expect everyone to "RESPECT WAHMYN!" and allow tribes to keep their "unique and admirable" traditions. That one legionaire who was part of a dog-worshipping tribe was definitely reddit bait. "Oh no, the Legion is evil because they kill dogs!!1!" Me, I like them for putting barbarians in their proper place and not treating women like they are all saints.
Legion are pretty fucked up for the aforementioned reasons.
Fiends seem cool but then I did that Quest where it turned out not only are they engaging in murdering and pillaging and kidnapping while high on chems which sounds like a good time but then I saw they were buying trafficked children and torturing/raping/murdering them for entertainment which put a bit of a damper on things. Which sucks because Cook-Cook actually seemed like a nice person (for a cannibal rapist).
That in turns means the Khans who are also cool subsequently enable such behavior.
I guess there's always the Jackals. They have grenade rifles! Real problem solvers those.
Fiends seem cool but then I did that Quest where it turned out not only are they engaging in murdering and pillaging and kidnapping while high on chems which sounds like a good time but then I saw they were buying trafficked children and torturing/raping/murdering them for entertainment which put a bit of a damper on things. Which sucks because Cook-Cook actually seemed like a nice person (for a cannibal rapist).
That in turns means the Khans who are also cool subsequently enable such behavior.
I guess there's always the Jackals. They have grenade rifles! Real problem solvers those.
Maybe they didn't bother modifying the R91 Assault Rifles with that attachment.
The Laser Rifles might've been even more awkward.
Everything else might've been too niche for such attachments to really catch on in the post-apocalyptic wasteland.
Morphic Tide
Well-known member
The only games with mechanics amenable to accurate implementation are New Vegas and Fallout 4. The former has ammunition-switching with variable weapon wear so if there's support for animation and model swapping it can handle most of them, while the latter's weapon modifications can be used for a strictly modal implementation.
Depends on the type, the "shoot-through" rifle grenades are expressly based on the bullets firing properly, so once you've sent the rifle grenade flying the barrel's cleared and you can resume normal operation.
There's probably just a wide diversity of weapons in Fallout anyways as can be seen. Most of the major Post-War factions don't seem to have 'standardized' weapons with the exception of the New California Republic issuing troopers Service Rifles. So rifle grenade attachments are likely lost in the shuffle and people apparently are willing to just use Grenade Rifles since they're common enough already.
It would seem more likely that there would be 'undermounted/slung' grenade launcher attachments for the modern assault rifles and carbines that are common enough in the Wasteland of course. But there aren't and I'm guessing that's a victim of game mechanics/balance or whatever like what Morphic Tide mentioned with rifle grenade attachments (or bayonets which were once being considered implemented in game). But instead of using primary weapons to heft grenades, they just chuck hand grenades, and instead of bayoneting or clubbing fools with their weapons, they have to switch to melee or draw out combat knives etc.
It would seem more likely that there would be 'undermounted/slung' grenade launcher attachments for the modern assault rifles and carbines that are common enough in the Wasteland of course. But there aren't and I'm guessing that's a victim of game mechanics/balance or whatever like what Morphic Tide mentioned with rifle grenade attachments (or bayonets which were once being considered implemented in game). But instead of using primary weapons to heft grenades, they just chuck hand grenades, and instead of bayoneting or clubbing fools with their weapons, they have to switch to melee or draw out combat knives etc.