Racism and Wu

[ShieldWife]

I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of restricting gun access to people who are mentally ill. Gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right and it should not be denied to citizens except through due process of law. While we have systems in place for criminal offenses, but having someone declared mentally ill could be potentially far easier and the criteria could be far less strict. I fear that if mental illness becomes a justification to strip people of 2nd Amendment rights that soon numerous people could be declared mentally ill for extremely flimsy reasons.

 

[DirtbagLeft]

They would likely see dankula as a Nazi, I mean he's not but since when did that matter.

The problem with most Nazi's is that they lie about their positions because they know what would happen if they tell the truth. Dankula is a moron and white nationalist. The only reason I don't call him a Nazi is because I cannot demonstrate that he is a fascist but given the fact that it always leaks at some point I suspect it will come out just like it did with Richard Spencer and Kaitlin Bennett.

I find it both disgusting and humorous how the left repeatedly says "X person is a Nazi here is the case for them being a Nazi" and you degenerate reactionaries always say "They are not Nazi's." and then over and over again it later leaks. Yup they are nazi's. The reason nobody believes you when you say someone isn't a Nazi is because you're liars and you have a demonstrable track record of being wrong every single time.

 

[ShieldWife]

Honestly, I don't care if Dankula is a Nazi. I don't think that he is, but even if he is, he still has the same rights to freedom of speech and to express his opinions as anybody else. To some degree, arguing that Dankula isn't a Nazi misses the point. Nazis have the same rights as anybody else.

Of course, right wingers claiming that people aren't Nazis is going to be a common occruance, because the left calls everybody a Nazi. Remember the 2012 presidential election when they called Mitt Romney a Nazi? A guy who would fit in better in the Democrat Party gets called a Nazi.

Really, if am suspicious of anyone who brings up Nazis in a political discussion. There is really never a reason to liken someone to Nazis. If someone advocates a bunch of policies which are objectionable, then you should be able to argue against those policies on their own merits or flaws without bringing up Nazis. If somebody supports something really terrible, then it shouldn't matter if the Nazis did it or not.

 

[DirtbagLeft]

If you don’t have dysphoria then you are mutilating yourself for pretty much no reason.

I understand that making feels based arguments are really important to you, so you like to use highly emotional and charged language. If a woman does not have dysphoria and decides to get breast enlargements then she is mutilating herself for no reason.

First that is a really smooth brained take, and second it is factually wrong. You don't like the reason but there is a reason. The reason for the body modification is because they want to have the body modification. No other reason is necessary or required, just as I am need no other reason to have orange chicken as my favorite food, or to wear the kinds of cloths that I do. Or to get my ears pierced or not. Or to do anything else. A vagninoplasty is not is by no means "mutilation". Even if it was however I wouldn't care because people can do with their body as they want.

@DirtbagLeft if you are non Dyphoric Trans, what legitimizes you as a man or a woman opposite from what you were born as that does not also legitimize this man as being a lizard instead of a human.

I am actually glad that you asked (serious not sarcastic). A huge part of the problem is that we are dealing with three distinct term that often times get conflated.
Term 1: Is a bimodal distribution between modes A and C determined by four factors. Gonads, Genitals, Hormones, Chromosomes. Within this distribution there are three broad categories A B and C. A and C are the two extremes with B referring to those who fall in the center. This is the biological definition of the term Sex (biological sex).
Term 2: the sum of the structural, functional, and sometimes behavioral characteristics of organisms that distinguish males and females. This is the medical not biological definition of Sex. Medicine is a sub school of biology but it uses a much different definition. This is in part because medical professionals are hack biologists. They learn just enough biology to make them able to treat ailments of the body in a time sensitive but effective way. This is not to degenerate medical professionals but to point out their knowledge and the very different job they have. (medical sex)
Term 3: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex. This term belongs to the field of sociology and identifies primarily behavioral patterns and modes of thinking within a given larger culture. Gender is considered a sub-culture. Sociology analyzes institutions where as it is the function of psychology to analyze the individual. Macro vs Micro. Gender itself is a cultural construct and the numbers of genders as well as the genders themselves varies widely throughout time and place.

To be transgender one only need to identify as a gender other than that assigned at birth. Male and Female are terms which belong to Biology/Medicine and what makes one Male/Female depends on if you are talking about biology or medicine. Man/Woman, Masculine/Feminine (I am restricting the conversation to a binary distinction that doesn't exist) is purely cultural. In the Christian west we have reduced gender to two for theological reasons. We also tend to ignore that other genders exist in other cultures imposing our own classification system on societies where our classification system doesn't work.

All of that was to say that biology and medicine have nothing to do with gender or with the classification of man/woman. With the background information out of the way I can now answer your question.

"if you are non Dyphoric Trans, what legitimizes you as a man or a woman opposite from what you were born as that does not also legitimize this man as being a lizard instead of a human?" The thing that identifies you as trans period is identifying as a gender other than the gender you were assigned at birth. Identifying as a different species is in no way comparable to identifying as a different gender. Species is determined biologically. Gender is determined sociologically. To give a more appropriate example I identify culturally as Punk. Yet you wouldn't be able to tell just from looking at me because I do not superficially meet the standard of what most people think of when they think punk.

This is exactly why a man who has been castrated accidentally at a work site does not suddenly stop being a man because he no longer has a penis and testicles. It is also why a transman does not suddenly become a man because they had a penoplasty. On a personal level questions of personal identity are psychological.

But lets take a deeper look at the implications of peepee = man, boobie = woman. The logical conclusion (as any of us that have grown up masculine and went through middle school through high school can attest) is the irrational thinking that bigger peepee = more man. and as I as women can attest to bigger boobie = more woman. This is a hold over from before we learn better of poor cognitive reasoning we develop as children (see children cup test).

 

[Senor Hortler]

The problem with most Nazi's is that they lie about their positions because they know what would happen if they tell the truth. Dankula is a moron and white nationalist. The only reason I don't call him a Nazi is because I cannot demonstrate that he is a fascist but given the fact that it always leaks at some point I suspect it will come out just like it did with Richard Spencer and Kaitlin Bennett.

I find it both disgusting and humorous how the left repeatedly says "X person is a Nazi here is the case for them being a Nazi" and you degenerate reactionaries always say "They are not Nazi's." and then over and over again it later leaks. Yup they are nazi's. The reason nobody believes you when you say someone isn't a Nazi is because you're liars and you have a demonstrable track record of being wrong every single time.

>Linking a two hour video of the screeching retard that is destiny.
You gonna timestamp the important bits there champ? Also can you give me someone that didn't say "Who knows if being molested damages children"? I'd really rather not have to listen to a pedophile advocate.

As an aside can I get your opinion on the whole 'Pug salute' thing? Do you side with the NSDAP when they ruled that it was a crime to mockingly make animals to the salute of the Reich? Or are you with Dank when he said 'The joke only makes sense if you're taking the piss out of the Nazi's.'? Because it seems that the people who 'REEEEEEEE' about it as I'm sure you will don't seem to have watched it. The joke was that his girlfriend said his dog was the best thing ever, so he made it the worst thing ever; a Nazi.

The point of the joke is that the Nazi's were the opposite of good.

I understand that making feels based arguments are really important to you, so you like to use highly emotional and charged language. If a woman does not have dysphoria and decides to get breast enlargements then she is mutilating herself for no reason.

Ah yes, he is the one making a 'feelings based argument' when you're talking about mentally ill gays cutting off their cocks for a fetish. Amazing.

 

[FriedCFour]

Dankula is a moron and white nationalist. The only reason I don't call him a Nazi is because I cannot demonstrate that he is a fascist but given the fact that it always leaks at some point I suspect it will come out just like it did with Richard Spencer and Kaitlin Bennett.

There’s literally nothing white nationalist about him. He’s completely libertarian.

The thing that identifies you as trans period is identifying as a gender other than the gender you were assigned at birth. Identifying as a different species is in no way comparable to identifying as a different gender. Species is determined biologically. Gender is determined sociologically. To give a more appropriate example I identify culturally as Punk. Yet you wouldn't be able to tell just from looking at me because I do not superficially meet the standard of what most people think of when they think punk.

Nah, gender is a made up term. Sex is determined biologically. What makes you different from the sex you were born as? Gender roles originate biologically. Men are different from women in their thought processes, roles they hold, what they are inclined to and good at. Men are not women and they are not interchangeable in the slightest. My job for all human history has been male inclined and will always be male inclined because men fill into it naturally better than women. We have patriarchy and not matriarchy due to nature. Women are mothers and are the primary raisers of children due to biology. Men are naturally inclined towards more physically demanding roles and leadership due to biology. People are not blank slates that you just raise as a boy or a girl and then they end up that way. And at the same time, I could just say species is biological, but human is a social construct and we only identify as human because of social constructs. We can just make up a word like gender for people who identify as nonhuman. Also tell David Reimer that. Oh you can’t because he’s dead from the abuse of being raised as a gender he wasn’t in a sick social experiment.

Even then, if all it is is the way you are raised, there is now no legitimate reason what so ever to allow a trans person to legally identify or to have any sort of tax payer assistance in transitioning anymore than I have legitimate reason to get say, a tax payer funded gym and personal trainer because I want to be more jacked than I am currently, because I envision myself in better shape than I am now. I have as much right to get any plastic surgery or testosterone pills or anything as they do, because ultimately there is nothing that makes them more needing of help than me. If gender is totally constructed, then it ultimately eliminates all justification to make them any kind of protected class or give them any sort of help with transitioning anymore than I can get anything I would like to make me into a more masculine dude or anything that I would like. I have as much right to a free 14 inch dong as they do surgeries and hormones under this logic. The only way the trans identity has any legitimacy at all is rooted entirely in men being different from women. If it’s all just a social construct it’s irrelevant, and therefore has no real value because there isn’t anything inherent with it and it’s no different to want to be a woman than it is to want to be a bodybuilder.

 

[Cherico]

The problem with most Nazi's is that they lie about their positions because they know what would happen if they tell the truth. Dankula is a moron and white nationalist. The only reason I don't call him a Nazi is because I cannot demonstrate that he is a fascist but given the fact that it always leaks at some point I suspect it will come out just like it did with Richard Spencer and Kaitlin Bennett.

I find it both disgusting and humorous how the left repeatedly says "X person is a Nazi here is the case for them being a Nazi" and you degenerate reactionaries always say "They are not Nazi's." and then over and over again it later leaks. Yup they are nazi's. The reason nobody believes you when you say someone isn't a Nazi is because you're liars and you have a demonstrable track record of being wrong every single time.

You have no idea what your talking about.

I am jewish I spent time in military school around real life neo Nazi's I still have the scars from the time one of them tried to shive me to death in the shower. I have been up close to and seen the real fucking deal with the scars to prove it. I have experienced real actual racism and bigotry.

Most of the people who are accused of being Nazi's arnt and I would really appreciate it if you would stop using my peoples suffering for your own political gain.

 

[DirtbagLeft]

I can't help but notice you're completely ignoring the implicit bias that the study defined things by admission of guilt in order to talk about Twitter, which suggests you have a weak argument and are trying to deflect. I'm sure you can find any stupid thing on Twitter if you search long enough, I avoid it as a source for any serious arguments myself for that reason. However you've shown much interest with quibbling over word meanings in this thread so if you claim Kung Flu and Wuhan Virus are absolutely identical I will think less of you for the hypocrisy. Especially in light of your desire to use a quantum definition of "racism" that allows you to change meanings mid-argument and quibble word definitions rather than facts. After all, the person posting on Twitter can't be an institution so they can't be racist, right?

Firstly the definition of racism I use allows no such thing. The definitions I provided (multiple) are to show the different way's in which the term is defined. The definition I use is the sociological definition as I care much less about individual acts of racism and more about the effects of that individual act on society. So no I cannot change meaning midstream and if I were to do something I would rightfully expect others to hold me to account for such a dishonest and frankly stupid tactic.

"After all, the person posting on Twitter can't be an institution so they can't be racist, right?" lets examine this statement using the sociological definition. Again I will remind you that within the sociological definition we do not care about the individuals intent but rather how the individuals actions contribute to the broader institutions. "After all, the person posting on Twitter can't be an institution so they can't contribute to the institution, right?" Wrong. This is very reductionist of you. Setting aside the distinction between someone who does a racist thing and someone who is a racist, it is very possible for an individual to contribute to the institution while not being the institution. Someone who does something racist contributes to the institution someone who IS (as a part of their essence) racist does not only contribute to the institution of racism but regularly does so in a manner intended to provide support for the institution. Intent is much much harder to prove, though it can be done.

I am not ignoring your criticism I am asking you a question for the purpose of clarification. Are you making the argument that the terms have no connection to one another? Are you saying the words are not stochastically connected?

I ask this because depending on how you answer the question depends on how I address the objection you are raising. In other words should I assume in my next response that we are speaking from a common base level of reality that yes there is a connection and that the connection is meaningful. Or should I assume that your objection is intended as concern trolling. In one case I will continue to act in good faith and civil. In the latter case I will probe a little harder to see if you just don't understand that there is a meaningful connection and if it turns out you are concern trolling I will act in good faith and come at you hard.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Fundamentally I find the whole concept of modern racism nebulous and nonsensical.

Institutions change, evolve, and sometimes pass away.

Institutions are also made up of people, not collective organisms in their own right.

Even in non European times and places-their was prejudice towards outsiders and foreigners. The Chinese attitude towards barbarians, the way the pygmies were treated by the migrating Bantu peoples, and even the attitude of say the Iroquois and Huron was one of disdain and hostility.

Is that not racism? Or just uh xenophobia or something?

 

[Senor Hortler]

Fundamentally I find the whole concept of modern racism nebulous and nonsensical.

Institutions change, evolve, and sometimes pass away.

Institutions are also made up of people, not collective organisms in their own right.

Even in non European times and places-their was prejudice towards outsiders and foreigners. The Chinese attitude towards barbarians, the way the pygmies were treated by the migrating Bantu peoples, and even the attitude of say the Iroquois and Huron was one of disdain and hostility.

Is that not racism? Or just uh xenophobia or something?

The modern use of the term 'racism' is not at all nebulous. It essentially boils down to 'A system where the whites rule over the balcks'. It's a very simple anti white term that people like dirtbagleftist will throw up in front of eight paragraphs of waffle to distract from the fact that his position is essentially 'fuck you whitey'. Sociology is essentially a study of marxism pretending to be about a study of society.

Hell his entire sperggasm up thread can be boiled down to:
1) Racism is not the actions of people, but the term used to describe the systems of power wielded by institutions to suppress non whites.
2) Peoples actions can support the institution and therefore those systems of power.
3) Therefore people are racist when they support the system that is mean to non whites.

But that's an honest way of putting it that removes the 'blah, blah, blah' self pomp that people doing a sociology degree always put in their work to show that that nine grand was well spent (fucking wasn't). Dirtbag doesn't actually give a fuck what you're going to say, or do. He hates white people, and so he'll justify that hatred with as much wordsalad as he can until you stop responding.

 

[DirtbagLeft]

I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of restricting gun access to people who are mentally ill. Gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right and it should not be denied to citizens except through due process of law. While we have systems in place for criminal offenses, but having someone declared mentally ill could be potentially far easier and the criteria could be far less strict. I fear that if mental illness becomes a justification to strip people of 2nd Amendment rights that soon numerous people could be declared mentally ill for extremely flimsy reasons.

I agree with you in part. As has been demonstrated with the KKK (who were the first to put forward the concept of gun control) it is easy to manipulate the system to arbitrarily restrict access to guns for "good" reasons. The question I ask myself is "how could X policy be turned against me and mine.". Racist fucks and Liberal bastards both can equally rig the judicial system to artificially restrict gun rights by prosecuting their political opponents. And given how broken the judicial system is such a thing is far to easy to do. Given that 1 in 40 plead guilty to a crime they did not commit. I do not trust a judicial system that would sentence to repeated consecutive life sentences an individual who supposedly carried out thousands of murders which it was physically impossible for them to have committed on nothing but the eye witness testimony of pre-schoolers. No. Absolutely not. Fuck that shit. And not when they sat in prison for 30 years for crimes they could not have possibly committed. Fuck no.

 

[ShieldWife]

Here's something I think is odd about the supposed gender vs sex dichotomy. If gender is just a social construct, then why even link it to sex at all. If it's just about wearing skirts, the color pink, and playing with Barbies, then it doesn't exist at all. The only real thing, then, is biological sex, the organs, the chromosomes. Sure, a man shouldn't cut off a perfectly functional penis because he likes to wear pink, that makes no sense at all.

bigger boobie = more woman.

Well, that's totally true though.

 

[Deleted member 88]

The modern use of the term 'racism' is not at all nebulous. It essentially boils down to 'A system where the whites rule over the balcks'. It's a very simple anti white term that people like dirtbagleftist will throw up in front of eight paragraphs of waffle to distract from the fact that his position is essentially 'fuck you whitey'. Sociology is essentially a study of marxism pretending to be about a study of society.

Well yeah, once you strip away all the pseudo sophisticated jargon and buzzwords. It comes down to that yeah. Perhaps it would better to say it is shrouded in nebulous shrouds of deceptive language.

 

[DirtbagLeft]

Fundamentally I find the whole concept of modern racism nebulous and nonsensical.

Institutions change, evolve, and sometimes pass away.

Institutions are also made up of people, not collective organisms in their own right.

Even in non European times and places-their was prejudice towards outsiders and foreigners. The Chinese attitude towards barbarians, the way the pygmies were treated by the migrating Bantu peoples, and even the attitude of say the Iroquois and Huron was one of disdain and hostility.

Is that not racism? Or just uh xenophobia or something?

I think that part of the problem is a lack of understanding what exactly sociology examines. Ultimately sociology is a study of memeticis. When we are talking about "the institution of racism" we are not speaking about a single organization or a particular group of organizations. This is what makes it so confusing for people. The institution of racism is a memetic structure within a given society that contributes to bigotry upon "racial" lines (race us a vague and nebulous term which changes). Institutional racism is racial bigotry that exists within the fundamental framework of a given institution. It often times exists subtly with the actors within a given institution contributing to and perpetuating the racism as a matter of set implicit or explicit policy and often times not deliberately. These are often caused by problems of cognitive bias and can be difficult to overcome.

 

[FriedCFour]

Here's something I think is odd about the supposed gender vs sex dichotomy. If gender is just a social construct, then why even link it to sex at all. If it's just about wearing skirts, the color pink, and playing with Barbies, then it doesn't exist at all. The only real thing, then, is biological sex, the organs, the chromosomes. Sure, a man shouldn't cut off a perfectly functional penis because he likes to wear pink, that makes no sense at all.

Yeah that’s exactly it. The only way that the trans identity can have the same legitimacy as being black is if there is something inherent to it. There now becomes no reason to really entertain it anymore than any other disposition you end up choosing, anymore than any other lifestyle choice or way you’d like your body to be.

These are often caused by problems of cognitive bias and can be difficult to overcome.

Would the fact that if you say black pride it’s perfectly acceptable while white pride equals white supremacist who should be unemployable be an example of institutional racism?

 

[Senor Hortler]

Would the fact that if you say black pride it’s perfectly acceptable while white pride equals white supremacist who should be unemployable be an example of institutional racism?

No, as racism is a system used to keep down non whites. As whites hold the power in the western world (and the world over through pan Americanism) they are unable to be affected - save in the positive manner - by institutional racism. That you cannot see this is also part of the racism.

It's a very robust conspiracy theory. Nice and self reinforcing.

 

[FriedCFour]

These are often caused by problems of cognitive bias and can be difficult to overcome.

Would the fact that if you say black pride it’s perfectly acceptable while white pride equals white supremacist who should be unemployable be an example of institutional racism?

No, as racism is a system used to keep down non whites. As whites hold the power in the western world (and the world over through pan Americanism) they are unable to be affected - save in the positive manner - by institutional racism. That you cannot see this is also part of the racism.

It's a very robust conspiracy theory. Nice and self reinforcing.

yeah that’s the issue. It’s incredibly self reinforcing but ultimately being a white racist will get you fired. Being a black racist gets you hired by The Root.

 

[Senor Hortler]

yeah that’s the issue. It’s incredibly self reinforcing but ultimately being a white racist will get you fired. Being a black racist gets you hired by The Root.

That's simply a small sample. Remember, your samples are anecdotes, whereas his anecdotes are samples, and when there are no anecdotes or samples then the lack of them simply shows the bias in academia.

I wish that last part was a joke but the Steven lawrence report concluded that as they could find no evidence of institutional racial bias within the police force the lack of that bias was evidence that everyone must be bias (even the minority officers) and it was used as evidence of bias.

 

[Deleted member]

@FriedCFour is perfectly correct: Unless transsexuality is caused by a fundamental biological or spiritual disorder, then it’s indefensible. So transgenderist ideology serves only to discredit the very concept of transitioning and make the whole “Attack Helicopter” identity from a joke into a crushing rejoinder. The idea that someone can have a different “gender identity” absent some kind of inherent, inalterable cause means that identity has no real meaning and no real value.

 

[ShieldWife]

No, as racism is a system used to keep down non whites. As whites hold the power in the western world (and the world over through pan Americanism) they are unable to be affected - save in the positive manner - by institutional racism. That you cannot see this is also part of the racism.

It's a very robust conspiracy theory. Nice and self reinforcing.

It absolutely is a conspiracy theory. In fact, it's one of the most widely sweeping conspiratorial claims. It actually even goes beyond race. I call it the discrimination conspiracy. Any discrepancy in outcome between different demographics is explained by discrimination, the differences in outcome is proof enough that the unfavored group (whites, males, Christians, cis, straights, etc.) are persecuting the favored group.

We see this with racial discrimination conspiracies, but also see it all the time with feminists. The "patriarchy" is just a subset of the discrimination conspiracy theory. Not enough women CEO's - must be a male conspiracy to keep us down. Rape still happens, must be the patriarchy working together to terrorize women. Transsexuals have a higher suicide rate, it must be from the persecution that they receive from cis people, no doubt white Christian cis people.