Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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Marduk

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No, the nazies entire thing was being extreme anti communists.
For one communists themselves didn't see it that way. At least not until the nazis backstabbed them in 1941. Which was as successful as it was only because of how little Stalin expected this, and disregarded intel reports implying it as a anglosaxon conspiracy to ruin the blooming Soviet-German cooperation as demonstrated by the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact.

By the way this has a lot to do with Soviet\Russian obsession with calling their enemies fascists regardless of whether they had much in common with them or not. Their antifa like tendency has less to do with disagreements about fascist's ways and politics of the targets of it resembling those, and more with being a way to call someone a treacherous bastard enemy.
 
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Bacle

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Looks like the Kremlin/Putin still hasn't realized that no one is going to recognize your annexations as legit, particularly not Ukraine, and right now Zelenski has every reason to refuse to negotiate with Putin till Russian forces remove themselves beyond the 1991 borders.

Ukraine is gaining ground, Russia is losing the ground they have attempted to steal from Ukraine, and Russia only ever pushes for negotiations when they are on the backfoot and want time to rebuild forces.

Edit: Looks like the Russian fifth column in Europe is trying to intimidate the Ukrainians with stunts like this:


The West really needs to be on the look out for Russian fifth column actions in Europe and the US; anyone who has any knowledge that can help Ukraine win, or is related to the production of weapons Ukraine is using/being sold/given should be on high alert for Russian agents looking to hurt western production/assistance to Ukraine by trying to kill the people who are helping making that aid happen.
 

Marduk

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Looks like the Kremlin/Putin still hasn't realized that no one is going to recognize your annexations as legit, particularly not Ukraine, and right now Zelenski has every reason to refuse to negotiate with Putin till Russian forces remove themselves beyond the 1991 borders.

Ukraine is gaining ground, Russia is losing the ground they have attempted to steal from Ukraine, and Russia only ever pushes for negotiations when they are on the backfoot and want time to rebuild forces.

He took a fancy way to say that he's not interested, by demanding a major concession just to talk. Because that's what Russia is still interested more in - victory, not merely ending the war, especially not permanently.

Edit: Looks like the Russian fifth column in Europe is trying to intimidate the Ukrainians with stunts like this:

Do they have to be in Europe? Could be #JustKGBThings.
 

Bacle

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He took a fancy way to say that he's not interested, by demanding a major concession just to talk. Because that's what Russia is still interested more in - victory, not merely ending the war, especially not permanently.


Do they have to be in Europe? Could be #JustKGBThings.
KGB/Fifth Column seems a...barely useful distinction for this; it's just the difference between the marks and their handlers.

And no, not just in Europe; anyone with even a peripheral part of assisting in production of weapons or equipment Ukraine is using/getting needs to be extra wary about security and personal safety, because Russia is showing they will absolutely engage in terror tactics in western nations in order to try to get support for Ukraine to stop.
 

Cherico

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He took a fancy way to say that he's not interested, by demanding a major concession just to talk. Because that's what Russia is still interested more in - victory, not merely ending the war, especially not permanently.


Do they have to be in Europe? Could be #JustKGBThings.

Thing is its not going to end with Ukraine the inherit logic of these expansions is such that the baltics, and poland up to the vistula river are all targets. This war is at the end of the day about expanding to defensible boarders so they can keep russia safe with fewer people.

If they lose this war, they simply don't have enough people to keep the country together we will end up seeing another break up of the russian system. Most likely the Chechians and Tartars going their own way. That said this war has basically cost them their status as a global power and has already wreaked alot of their capabilities.
 

Marduk

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Thing is its not going to end with Ukraine the inherit logic of these expansions is such that the baltics, and poland up to the vistula river are all targets. This war is at the end of the day about expanding to defensible boarders so they can keep russia safe with fewer people.

If they lose this war, they simply don't have enough people to keep the country together we will end up seeing another break up of the russian system. Most likely the Chechians and Tartars going their own way. That said this war has basically cost them their status as a global power and has already wreaked alot of their capabilities.
If they thought that, rather than pushed this as an excuse, they are idiots. Getting more enemies with aggressive actions can't make Russia safer. Meanwhile, the idiocy in warfare theory got more plausible with the odd patchwork of WW1, WW2 and modern features Russian military is showing.
But the reality is, that if Russia ever gets targeted by someone willing and able to deal with their nuclear deterrent, for a foe like that more or less defensible borders will make little difference.
The things that Russia is doing to get such borders, on the other hand, might damage Russia enough for such a foe to become more realistic.
 

Captain X

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Thing is its not going to end with Ukraine the inherit logic of these expansions is such that the baltics, and poland up to the vistula river are all targets. This war is at the end of the day about expanding to defensible boarders so they can keep russia safe with fewer people.
No it's not. Putin isn't even bothering to use that old excuse anymore; why are you? :cautious: This is just naked conquest in an effort to relive the old glory days in their eyes. The fact Ukraine found natural gas that would undermine what Russia had going on just helped provide some extra incentive.
 

Cherico

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No it's not. Putin isn't even bothering to use that old excuse anymore; why are you? :cautious: This is just naked conquest in an effort to relive the old glory days in their eyes. The fact Ukraine found natural gas that would undermine what Russia had going on just helped provide some extra incentive.

Its honestly both, it is naked conquest to try to get their glory days behind them but its motivated by a logic. The russians are not madmen just assholes.
 

Captain X

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Its honestly both, it is naked conquest to try to get their glory days behind them but its motivated by a logic. The russians are not madmen just assholes.
Evidence suggests otherwise. In any case if you think this is about "defensive borders" you're a fool. That excuse was nothing more than propaganda, along with the "de-Nazification" bullshit.
 

Cherico

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Evidence suggests otherwise. In any case if you think this is about "defensive borders" you're a fool. That excuse was nothing more than propaganda, along with the "de-Nazification" bullshit.

I never once said that Russians were not assholes.

But their is a logic to all of this, is it a good logic? In my opinion no, because their demographics are so shit even if they won everything they would end up losing it all in a generation due to all of the conquered people really not wanting to be russians. Its short term thinking, but that's so much of russian history in a nut shell isn't it?

Short term thinking that fucks over the country in the long run.
 

AmosTrask

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Ruskky Mir is everything East of Berlin and North of Istanbul and Florina, including Albania to the border with Italy and Austria. Everything. Putin's leaked plans was a drive all the way to Poland, annexing Transnistria, puppeting Moldova and demanding territorial concessions from the Baltic States. If Ukraine had fallen as planned I'd be a refugee and Romania and NATO would be at Full Mobilization.

As it is I'm using my paid vacation to hide in Switzerland. Fucking Russians
 

DarthOne

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and we know that this wasn’t just made up how?

Look, I’m just saying we’ve had several years worth of the Globalist/ Liberal World Order calling anything and anyone they didn’t like ‘Russian disinformation’ or ‘Russian Agents’.

How do we know that this isn’t just the European edition to discredit or arrest anyone who is in opposition to said Globalist/ Liberal World Order?

Especially with the rise of populism across the world, the growing economic problems and the nasty winter Europe in particular is likely to face as a result of their sanctions on Russia? The establishment is going to want to blame someone else for their fuck-ups.
 

Cherico

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and we know that this wasn’t just made up how?

Look, I’m just saying we’ve had several years worth of the Globalist/ Liberal World Order calling anything and anyone they didn’t like ‘Russian disinformation’ or ‘Russian Agents’.

How do we know that this isn’t just the European edition to discredit or arrest anyone who is in opposition to said Globalist/ Liberal World Order?

Especially with the rise of populism across the world, the growing economic problems and the nasty winter Europe in particular is likely to face as a result of their sanctions on Russia? The establishment is going to want to blame someone else for their fuck-ups.

its always been easier to blame your fuck ups on some one else then correct course.
 

Marduk

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and we know that this wasn’t just made up how?

Look, I’m just saying we’ve had several years worth of the Globalist/ Liberal World Order calling anything and anyone they didn’t like ‘Russian disinformation’ or ‘Russian Agents’.
And they only started once people forgot Obama administration was appeasing Russia (remember the reset button)?
In Europe, this was a a running theme much longer.
How do we know that this isn’t just the European edition to discredit or arrest anyone who is in opposition to said Globalist/ Liberal World Order?
Fuck "anyones" who want to support Russian imperial revanchism just to stick it to the globalists.
What next, are you going to support the CCP, the Iranian theocrats, ISIL and Juche too, because the Liberal World Order sure doesn't like any of them either?
Just because someone doesn't like globalists doesn't make them your friend. Many of those hate the classical West just as much as the hardcore leftists do, but won't say no to useful idiots in it.
Especially with the rise of populism across the world, the growing economic problems and the nasty winter Europe in particular is likely to face as a result of their sanctions on Russia? The establishment is going to want to blame someone else for their fuck-ups.
And here you evidence that you march to the drumbeat of Russian propaganda narrative.
What nasty winter? Do you have some kind of weather data no one else has? What does it have to do with sanctions on Russia? Does Russia have a weather control weapon now? The vast majority of economic problems Europe and the rest of countries too will experience are the fallout of corona lockdowns that dragged on waaaaay beyond the point where they could be possibly justified. Why are you helping the culprits of that escape the popular ire for that and instead redirect it in defense of Russian interests by criticizing the sanctions?

In that statement you in fact are saying that the establishment is right that this is the fault of Russia sanctions. You only argue that Russia doesn't deserve those sanctions, for whatever silly reason. While the economic downturn was already bound to happen anyway due to lockdowns, but hey, let's forget about that one.

The establishment figures would 100% prefer to argue their case in sanctioning Russia than to argue their case for the long running lockdowns and related policies, is anyone even willing to disagree here?
They are going to be in deep shit if anyone managed to press them on justifying the sheer economic damage of the latter.
 

Bacle

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and we know that this wasn’t just made up how?

Look, I’m just saying we’ve had several years worth of the Globalist/ Liberal World Order calling anything and anyone they didn’t like ‘Russian disinformation’ or ‘Russian Agents’.

How do we know that this isn’t just the European edition to discredit or arrest anyone who is in opposition to said Globalist/ Liberal World Order?

Especially with the rise of populism across the world, the growing economic problems and the nasty winter Europe in particular is likely to face as a result of their sanctions on Russia? The establishment is going to want to blame someone else for their fuck-ups.
You do realize that it is possible to hate the NWO and Russia at the same time, right?

You do realize Russia has invested a lot in formenting militias and fifth columns all over Europe in anticipation of a war with NATO and wanting agents on the ground to do sabotage behind enemy lines?

You do realize the Marxist infil of colleges and such have helped create the 'Liberal World Order' you complain about?

Fucking wake up and stop swallowing the bullshit about Russia defending the world from the NWO.

Edit: Do you even get that even countries like Kazahkstan are snubbing Russia now because how much they have fucked up?

Russia is an imperialist, expansionist power with dreams of former glory, not some based nation trying to defend the world from the NWO. The only people who think Russia is doing anything good by invading Ukraine are fools, Russian agents, and CCP fans who like to have Russia under their thumb economically.

And yes, saying that calling out Russian 5th column activities is 'helping the NWO' is buying Russia's bullshit.
 
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Zachowon

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Russia also has a culture in thier military for example of raping aoldiers under you and expecting ti be raped ir even gang raped by people above you do understand your place or as a firm of punishment
 
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