Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[Jaenera Targaryen]

That really depends on what you mean by Sith. If you mean the Sith as a culture and society, than no, the New Sith had few ties to the old Sith. But the Sith were also a religion, not just a people. And most later Sith did attempt to adhere to the ideals and philosophy of the old Sith even if they weren't culturally Sith.

By 'New Sith', I refer to all the Sith organizations that arose from Darth Ruin's claiming of the title of Dark Lord around 2000 BBY onward.

For instance, some of the Sith who had little to no cultural ties to the Sith Empire, such as Malak and Exar Kun, were still recognized by those Sith as other Sith and by their holocrons and force ghosts. The only exceptions I can think of are Darth Plagueis and Darth Krayt.

Both Darth Revan and Darth Malak received their titles from Darth Vitiate. Similarly, Exar Kun received his title from Marka Ragnos, and had previously received training from Freedon Nadd, who had been the apprentice of and technically the immediate successor of Naga Sadow (concurrent - not that Nadd knew it - to Darth Vitiate). Exar Kun also assimilated the Old Sith culture from his dominion over the Massassi exiles on Yavin IV. So, they still count as Old Sith.

In my opinion where the Sith really started to go wrong was with Bane. For all it's problems, the Brotherhood of Darkness had ambitions of making the galaxy better and wasn't solely focused on destroying the Jedi. While Bane's plan was effective at destroying the Jedi his order never really had a plan for what came next. Once Palpatine had accomplished that goal he sort of stagnated until he got killed.

This is true. Even the Old Sith Empire had solid plans on what to do after they succeeded in destroying the Republic and defeating the Jedi Order. Power for its own sake was never the goal of the Old Sith, that - as you pointed out - only started with Darth Bane. The Old Sith actually busied themselves with making their empire at least managed to function effectively.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

In my opinion where the Sith really started to go wrong was with Bane. For all it's problems, the Brotherhood of Darkness had ambitions of making the galaxy better and wasn't solely focused on destroying the Jedi. While Bane's plan was effective at destroying the Jedi his order never really had a plan for what came next. Once Palpatine had accomplished that goal he sort of stagnated until he got killed.

Arguable the era of Sidious as Emperor and Dark Lord of the Sith was honestly probably the worst in terms of the corruption of Sith culture/religion. Darth Bane at least was a pragmatist favoring avoiding killing unnecessarily and acting with restraint as to keep your subjects content. Sidious on the other hand was sadistic, cruel, arbitrary and tyrannical. The Empire under him became an objectively worse place for even his most loyal of supporters which is not a great start for your new regime. SIdious with his relentless and impractical military buildup also plunged the galaxy into a total economic recession as well. Most funds would be directed towards military research/heavy industry starving the civilian sector of investment. This leads to less goods and services being available to the general public which lowers economic performance and thus taxation. As the Empire tries to brutally extract resources from its subjects seeing them as resources rather than as individuals stakeholders within the Empire, it will inevitably lead to an increasing death spiral that would see the populace impoverished until another mass revolt breaks out.

Sidious also has a pretty dysfunctional internal government and created a system that promotes internecine fighting among the ranks going with the Sith philosophy that might makes right and conflict leads to progress. This isn't really a good strategy for government as only the most ruthless and sociopathic are able to advance and thrive. This means that rather than gaining the most talented individuals in you administration, you gain a bunch of bootlickers, or those whose claim to fame is through social/political connections and politics.

Sidious' own cult of personality didn't help either. It would be one thing if he was actively ruling the galaxy as a monarch, but instead he retreated to the shadows to study the Dark Side while leaving administration to his lackeys. This leaves the government basically crippled as no one trusts each other and are all jostling for power in the vacuum the Palpatine has left behind. This was a major in the Nazi regime as well which was why their economic policy was so bad and they pushed for war so early lest they face a fiscal crisis.

Power for its own sake was never the goal of the Old Sith, that - as you pointed out - only started with Darth Bane. The Old Sith actually busied themselves with making their empire at least managed to function effectively.

Exactly. Sidious now attained control over the galaxy and then he did nothing with it choosing to retreat into the background to study the Dark Side more. If he was going to do that from the beginning, he could have easily remained incognito like the Sith have done for centuries. Now as Emperor he has a massive target on his back and responsibility such as leading the Empire.

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

By 'New Sith', I refer to all the Sith organizations that arose from Darth Ruin's claiming of the title of Dark Lord around 2000 BBY onward.

I know the differance between the old and new Sith. What I meant is that I consider both groups to be "real" Sith because they both adhere to Sith ideology, in the same way that you can covert to Judaism without being an ethnic or cultural Jew.

This is true. Even the Old Sith Empire had solid plans on what to do after they succeeded in destroying the Republic and defeating the Jedi Order. Power for its own sake was never the goal of the Old Sith, that - as you pointed out - only started with Darth Bane. The Old Sith actually busied themselves with making their empire at least managed to function effectively.

I'm talking about Lord Kaan's Brotherhood of Darkness of the New Sith at the end of the New Sith Wars. While the Brotherhood had a lot of internal problems, as all Sith do, they had a real plan for reorganizing the galaxy if they won. One of the reasons that Bane backstabed them was he was unhappy that Kaan was too focused on temporal concerns like leading armies and governance instead of the dark side. A mindset reminiscent of Darth Thanaton over a thousand years earlier.

 

[BlackDragon98]

Or the Republic for that matter. And remember the Jedi became legbreakers/bagmen for the Republic, and they did things like outright put down slave rebellions against systems that horrified even the Sith (I heard Yoda did that). Or even look at what they did in the Clone Wars.

General Grievous is one case.

His people, the Kaleesh, were being attacked and enslaved by the Huk. Grievous (then known as Qymaen jai Sheelal) counterattacked and drove the bugs (Huk were insectoids) back to their own homeworld.
The Huk complained to the Republic and the they sent Jedi to defeat the Kaleesh. Harsh punitive measures were placed on the Kaleesh that caused millions to starve to death while the Huk when back to their old shit of enslaving them.

And people wonder why Grievous hates Jedi with such a passion.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

General Grievous is one case.

His people, the Kaleesh, were being attacked and enslaved by the Huk. Grievous (then known as Qymaen jai Sheelal) counterattacked and drove the bugs (Huk were insectoids) back to their own homeworld.
The Huk complained to the Republic and the they sent Jedi to defeat the Kaleesh. Harsh punitive measures were placed on the Kaleesh that caused millions to starve to death while the Huk when back to their old shit of enslaving them.

And people wonder why Grievous hates Jedi with such a passion.

Ironic, considering in SWTOR, an Imperial PC can confront a Kaleesh war leader who claims that the Republic offers the Kaleesh a place among their people. Fast forward 3000+ years later, and the Kaleesh are basically left to die by the same Republic their ancestors fought and bled for.

Then again, this is the same Republic that basically abducted and imprisoned an incumbent head of state, Prince Shange of Cathar, because he wanted Cathar to stay neutral during the Great Galactic War. Probably out of lingering resentment at how the Republic - apart from Revan and the Revanchists - basically left the Cathar to die at the hands of Mandalore the Ultimate during the Mandalorian Wars. Small wonder the Cathar practically defected en masse (barring a few exceptions such as Jedi or Republic commandoes) to the Sith Empire after the Sith broke Prince Shange out of Belsavis and restored him to Cathar.

After getting screwed over twice by the Republic, the Cathar probably had had enough with the Republic and the Jedi's hypocrisy, while the Sith were finally starting to open up their society to outsiders. And back to the Kaleesh, during the Dread War, the Sith Empire went out of its way to rescue Kaleesh leaders held hostage by the Dread Guard on Belsavis.

In other words, with friends like the Jedi and the Republic, who needs enemies?

 

[Bacle]

That really depends on what you mean by Sith. If you mean the Sith as a culture and society, than no, the New Sith had few ties to the old Sith. But the Sith were also a religion, not just a people. And most later Sith did attempt to adhere to the ideals and philosophy of the old Sith even if they weren't culturally Sith.

For instance, some of the Sith who had little to no cultural ties to the Sith Empire, such as Malak and Exar Kun, were still recognized by those Sith as other Sith and by their holocrons and force ghosts. The only exceptions I can think of are Darth Plagueis and Darth Krayt.

In my opinion where the Sith really started to go wrong was with Bane. For all it's problems, the Brotherhood of Darkness had ambitions of making the galaxy better and wasn't solely focused on destroying the Jedi. While Bane's plan was effective at destroying the Jedi his order never really had a plan for what came next. Once Palpatine had accomplished that goal he sort of stagnated until he got killed.

Palp didn't stagnate, he was just waiting for Thrawn and his work in the Unknown Regions to finish up while he kept busy trying to replace Vader.

Then he was going for multi-galactic rule with shit like the World Devastators, Eclipse class, and Galaxy Gun enabling him to move beyond the SW galaxy and out into the universe at large.

Oh, and prepping for the fucking Vong was a major part of Palp's mid-term goals.

 

[BlackDragon98]

This is totally canon for me. Long live Grievous!

 

[DarthOne]

This is totally canon for me. Long live Grievous!

It’s one of the reason I do like the pre-TCW Confederacy. Flawed as heck, but a lot of those flaws and atrocities can be tied back to Palpatine. Without which...well, I’ve often wondered what would have happened if the CIS hadn’t been a Sith puppet.

 

[Zyobot]

SMAUL



Puns mixed with Gen Z humor. I don't know whether to laugh or turn around and run away.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Honestly the fact that the whole order wasn't disarmed is pretty ridiculous considering how the Republic has no military, and has an unelected fundamentalist religious group with their own military force right at their doorstep.

That's because the Jedi became the Republic's (open) secret police after the Ruusan Reformation. And - in Legends, at least - the notion of the Republic having no formal military is just a polite fiction. All the various Core System polities retained de facto military forces in the form of 'defense forces'. Subject to Washington Naval Treaty-like limitations, yes, but despite what the pacifists claimed and preached, the Republic was never completely disarmed.

The fundamentalism of the Jedi never really bothered the Republic, because the Jedi were equally dependent on the Republic for legal authority. That same legal authority they needed to suppress other Force sects, or even just divergent political movements that threatened the Republic, and by extension, the Jedi's power over the galaxy.

Basically, both the Jedi and the Republic were absolutely codependent on each other to maintain their power.

 

[Husky_Khan]

A convenient article compiling all the times Mark Hamill criticized or dunked on the Sequel Trilogy.

Mark Hamill Dunks On Rian Johnson, The Last Jedi, And The Whole Disney Sequel Trilogy

Actor Mark Hamill recently dunked on Rian Johnson and The Last Jedi while thanking director Peyton Reed for the final episode of The Mandalorian Season 2.

boundingintocomics.com

 

[Husky_Khan]

Big news if true.

 

[AspblastUSA]

The man is shitposting in the hashtag where the twitter literati are talking about how great one of their old books are. Mad props for giving sufficiently few fucks.

 

[Bacle]

 

[AspblastUSA]

An extremely clever, if limited costume. Definitely looks best when walking around compared to just standing.. This isn't a criticism mind; such a non-human body plan is next to impossible to make work right, so figuring out how to make a good Grievous who can stalk around properly is an accomplishment all on its own.

 

[Zyobot]

A meme I found from Popcorner Reviews:

 

[Zyobot]

Now this looks interesting!

501st Djscuss Krell | Umbara Recreated jn Unreal Engine 5

 

[Laskar]

That is incredible!

 

[Bacle]

That is incredible!

Pretty much the best Grevious cosplay I've ever seen, and the way they pulled it off is very clever.

 

[Basileus_Komnenos]

Pretty much the best Grevious cosplay I've ever seen, and the way they pulled it off is very clever.

yeah I thought it was some sort of animatronic until I read the part where it said cosplay