Lumiya and Vergere were both Sith Lords. That makes both of them bad eggs, and their "teachings" were murderous bullshit.
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Lumiya and Vergere were both Sith Lords. That makes both of them bad eggs, and their "teachings" were murderous bullshit.
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Deleted member 88
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Vergere no?
As for Lumiya, let me find the quote.
"This is the ultimate test of selflessness—whether you're ready to face unending emotional pain, true agony, to gain the power to create peace and order for billions of total strangers. That is the sacrifice. To be vilified by others, by people you know and care for, and for your personal sacrifice to be totally unknown to those billions you save, to do your duty as a Sith. To do your duty for the good of the galaxy."
That is Lumiya's lesson.
She tells Jacen to forsake what matters to him, and do what must be done for everyone else.
As for Lumiya, let me find the quote.
"This is the ultimate test of selflessness—whether you're ready to face unending emotional pain, true agony, to gain the power to create peace and order for billions of total strangers. That is the sacrifice. To be vilified by others, by people you know and care for, and for your personal sacrifice to be totally unknown to those billions you save, to do your duty as a Sith. To do your duty for the good of the galaxy."
That is Lumiya's lesson.
She tells Jacen to forsake what matters to him, and do what must be done for everyone else.
KilroywasNOTHere
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Deleted member 88
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Born and raised an imperial.
Her Order was unique in its pursuit of the Good along with Krayt's Sith. Wherein the ancient Sith and Order of the Sith Lords were all about their own self aggrandizement.
Her Order was unique in its pursuit of the Good along with Krayt's Sith. Wherein the ancient Sith and Order of the Sith Lords were all about their own self aggrandizement.
KilroywasNOTHere
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Wow she must have been sniffing some heavy doses of denial when she larned that palpatine's whole goal was to be darth nithlisis 2.0 and essentially undo all of creation.
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Deleted member 88
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She was well aware of Palpatine's character. She discussed it with Jacen.
KilroywasNOTHere
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Deleted member 88
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She didn't choose to follow him, she was born as an experiment. For creating loyal agents.
Her life was the Empire.
Yet she was willing to acknowledge Palpatine as what he was.
And forge a new path for the Sith order, she humbly knew she could not lead.
Her life was the Empire.
Yet she was willing to acknowledge Palpatine as what he was.
And forge a new path for the Sith order, she humbly knew she could not lead.
KilroywasNOTHere
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so wait, let me make sure I'm understanding this. She's a experiment? hallowed out like pinocio? And this is the teacher you follow?
I deleted my laugh because the more I think about it the more I seriouslly hope either I'm wrong or you're joking.
I deleted my laugh because the more I think about it the more I seriouslly hope either I'm wrong or you're joking.
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D
Deleted member 88
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I'd have to go back and explain her context.
But no?
I'm a Jacen fan and a Vergere fan.
Lumiya does present an interesting case study of a villain with mixed intentions, and as someone who despite her more base intentions-did really believe what she said.
She would not have died to buy Jacen time otherwise.
Sith don't usually die for others, much less other Sith. But Lumiya took Luke off Jacen's trail, and died to buy him time.
She's compelling in that way.
But no?
I'm a Jacen fan and a Vergere fan.
Lumiya does present an interesting case study of a villain with mixed intentions, and as someone who despite her more base intentions-did really believe what she said.
She would not have died to buy Jacen time otherwise.
Sith don't usually die for others, much less other Sith. But Lumiya took Luke off Jacen's trail, and died to buy him time.
She's compelling in that way.
KilroywasNOTHere
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Forgive me if this is a derail, but may I ask least ask what makes you tick the way you do? I mean look I'm as hostile to you as I am because your jacine fanboyism doesin't just exist in SW you act like this in real life if your comments in politics are anything to go by. You seath and rage and act like you're hollier than everyone else, it's almost as if you think your Jacen solo (Figure) messiah is going to come down from the sky and smite those you don't like while you are crowned as his special little follower. Maybe i'm wrong dude, but please prove that to me.
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Deleted member 88
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What?
I’m seriously confused by what your saying.
I’m a Jacen fan. I’m a Vergere fan.
I like to discuss SW.
This is a really weird detail.
I have no idea what your getting at.
I’m seriously confused by what your saying.
I’m a Jacen fan. I’m a Vergere fan.
I like to discuss SW.
This is a really weird detail.
I have no idea what your getting at.
KilroywasNOTHere
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you like Jacen because "He does what needs to be done and he's greater amoung men." you've expressed this kind of menality on more things than just star wars. " Why? you do realize if someone like Darth Cadeous actually existed in real life you'd be dead right?
Vergere was explicitly a Sith Lord all along, and what she taught Jacen was for the sole purpose of corrupting him to the Dark Side.
As a Sith, Jacen did stuff like kidnapping and threatening to murder his own infant daughter in order to force her mother to betray the Republic. There was absolutely no ambiguity to him being an evil, sadistic, bastard.
As a Sith, Jacen did stuff like kidnapping and threatening to murder his own infant daughter in order to force her mother to betray the Republic. There was absolutely no ambiguity to him being an evil, sadistic, bastard.
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Deleted member 88
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I mean obviously? Especially if I were on opposing sides?
Jacen and Darth Caedus are two very different men though?
Like the former is the seen as the avatar of a god of the fucking oppressed and lowest.
I like that Jacen.
Jacen and Darth Caedus are two very different men though?
Like the former is the seen as the avatar of a god of the fucking oppressed and lowest.
I like that Jacen.
KilroywasNOTHere
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you do you pal but I'll choose the rugged individual over the the false messiah any day. Just don't be surprised when your savior makes you ground meat.
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Skallagrim
Well-known member
It does seem like a pretty plausible reason behind the Imperial interest in Baby Yoda. I think it's a bad idea, both because I'd prefer this series to be as separate from the sequels as possible, and (morge generally) because it would lead to yet another instance of "small universe syndrome". You know: when everything has to be directly linked to everything else. That's usually a bad thing in a setting.
Of course... there's a decent chance they're going to do it anyway. If they are, however, the interpretation in this particular YouTube vid is pretty narrow. They clone baby Yoda and turn the clone into Snoke? Huh? Isn't Snoke's status as a "genetic strand-cast" something to set him apart from a clone? Seems more realistic that they need the baby's DNA to somehow get the Force-sensitivity / midichlorian-producing bits of its genetic material, which they can then somehow infuse into this amalgamated abomination that becomes Snoke. Making Snoke a mad experiment: a weird, hybrid Frankenclone that is somehow Force-sentitive. That would explain why it failed several times (see: big jar of botched Snokes), and why Palpy didn't just make an army of Force-senitive Snokes.
If I had to do it, I'd probably do it like that. It's the least stupid way to approach it.
Another possibility would be that Gideon wants the baby's DNA do help create a fully funtional new body for Palpatine: a clone body infused with the baby's magical Force-DNA, which will then be able to contain Palpatine's malevolent spirit without burning out rapidly. (Boy, they sure love cribbing from Dark Empire!) Since Palpatine has no such body in TRoS, this would mean that the attempts to harvest the baby's DNA ultimately fail -- and it's thus more in line with the "in the end, the good guys win" approach that Star Wars and Disney typically adhere to.
Still, I really feel that it would be better if they just let The Mandalorian be its own thing. Best to avoid all sorts of Forced (pun intended) connections to the sequels. It's rather interesting that there are apparently Imperial factions and leaders that aren't tied to the First Order, and that have goals and plans of their own. I'd prefer it if they explored that further, instead of tying it all to the First Order anyway. Doing so would needlessly make the setting feel smaller (again).
"mixed opinions" would about summarize my view of it. It's a very competently made game, everything runs smoothly and the combat system, with one big expectation, is very well designed, the characters and world feel appropriately star-warsy and the plot has a lot of very strong moments. The exploration sections are pretty well made, and they do a decent job of trying to blend the "this a thing you use for platforming and stuff" interactive bits of the environment in with the stuff that's just scenery.
The bad side is...well, there's nothing that's genuinely awful, there's a lot that I have issues with.
The biggest one is the gameplay system being very soulslike, right down to the bonefires and respawning enemies. Dark souls gets away with that by never explaining anything in any detail and having a plot with so many other unanswered questions that it gets lost in the shuffle. Fallen Order doesn't do either, and so the souls mechanics clash really, really hard with the overall tone of the setting. Cal is, presumably, not constantly killing the same squads of stormtroopers who all congregate in the same spots and never question what happened to the last squad sent to that spot over and over again, but it's not really explained what he *is* doing and in a game that has so many other "game mechanics" bits be intergrated into the story and cutscenes the bonefires really jump out as an exception.
Secondly, as with many star wars games, the infamous LightBat makes a return, with you constantly running around apparently bludgeoning countless stormtroopers, droids, wildlife, etc to death rather than, say, killing them in one hit with a sword that can cut through anything.
The last issue is the main plot. This is introduced like right after the tutorial, so it's not spoilers. The main plot of the game is trying to refound the Jedi Order via collected a list of force sensitive children that could be trained into new jedi. You obviously do not end up doing so in the end, and I doubt anyone playing the game thought otherwise. It's a bit annoying as a player, going through the game knowing ahead of time that what you're doing is pointless. There are some interesting side stories and character beats, but those have downsides two. Cere's the person who gets the most screentime aside from Cal, which is IMO a mistake because 1) her story is uninteresting and takes up focus that should be on Cal (see spoiler), 2) she has a severe and inexplicably case of Gowron eyes. Another character, who I will call Best Girl to avoid spoilers, is much more interesting, but she also takes an age and a half to actually join the main cast.
EDIT:
So, for much of the game you keep crossing paths with a pair of imperial inquisitors. One of them's not really relevent to the player, the other is. She kills your best friend (granted, this is like 5 minutes in so the emotional weight of that moment is....lacking), she tries to kill you an is clearly presented as the greater danger. And then, halfway through the game, you discover that she is...Cere's former Padawan that you were maybe vaguely aware of but probably not because of certain, eyeball related distractions always coming up whenever you talk to Cere. Cere and the inquisitor have some dialogue about this, there's a lot of melodrama, etc, which would maybe be impactful if the player was given any incentive whatsoever to care about any of this. Which you are not, in fact your greviences with the inquisitor (that whole best friend murdering thing) never come up again in favor of Cere taking the stage, and few things are less engaging than watching two NPCs monologue at each about things the player had no involvement in and no connection to. Their story has no connection to you and no parallels to your story with your former master, you have no incentive to care about any of this drama and at least for me, there was a strong distaste for it because it's getting in the way of the Cal's story. It would have been very easy to build the inquisitor as a character that Cal actually has some kind of history with and an interesting dynamic with, but they instead decided to shove Cal into the background and let Cere take center stage during the cutscene after the final boss fight, which is IMO a mistake.
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