That "Ancient Apocalypse" show

Bassoe

Well-known member
I don't get it.

For the sake of argument, imagine for a moment that Hancock was right and there was a prehistoric civilization of at most renaissance levels of technological sophistication* which was destroyed by the Younger Dryas event?

How does this influence modern politics? Sure it'd be interesting and a bunch of history textbooks would have to be rewritten, but what about it would be so important to the modern world to motivate a massive conspiratorial coverup on the part of the status quo?

* Any more advanced and they'd have had a use for and therefore dug up and expended all the oil necessary to make technological infrastructure which could be extracted without preexisting technological infrastructure and our industrial civilization wouldn't have been possible.
 

Skallagrim

Well-known member
I don't get it.

For the sake of argument, imagine for a moment that Hancock was right and there was a prehistoric civilization of at most renaissance levels of technological sophistication* which was destroyed by the Younger Dryas event?

How does this influence modern politics? Sure it'd be interesting and a bunch of history textbooks would have to be rewritten, but what about it would be so important to the modern world to motivate a massive conspiratorial coverup on the part of the status quo?

* Any more advanced and they'd have had a use for and therefore dug up and expended all the oil necessary to make technological infrastructure which could be extracted without preexisting technological infrastructure and our industrial civilization wouldn't have been possible.
The issue is that such an upset would discredit the "mandarin class", the "expert elite" that should't be questioned by the yokels. If they are seen to be wrong and fallible about anything, then people might start thinking they're allowed to ask questions.

TRUST THE EXPERTS, PEASANT!

They don't hate Hancock because he's peddling an Atlantis myth. They hate him because he was right about a few things, and that harms the unassailable position of the supposed "intellectual elite". Hancock's most dangerous (to them) and most valid (to us) point has nothing to do with his pet theories--

It's when he argues about dogmatic scientists closing their minds to evidence, such as with the "Clovis first" doctrine that was rigidly enfored for decades... and turned out to be dead wrong.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
* Any more advanced and they'd have had a use for and therefore dug up and expended all the oil necessary to make technological infrastructure which could be extracted without preexisting technological infrastructure and our industrial civilization wouldn't have been possible.
Except that a lot of oil experts believe that oil is a replenishable resource...as in it's actively being produced by the earth.

There have been many oil wells that have run dry...that have mysteriously become full again when the drillers tap them again decades later. Anecdotal, but there are now studies looking into what mechanism/s may cause this.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
I don't get it.

For the sake of argument, imagine for a moment that Hancock was right and there was a prehistoric civilization of at most renaissance levels of technological sophistication* which was destroyed by the Younger Dryas event?

How does this influence modern politics? Sure it'd be interesting and a bunch of history textbooks would have to be rewritten, but what about it would be so important to the modern world to motivate a massive conspiratorial coverup on the part of the status quo?

* Any more advanced and they'd have had a use for and therefore dug up and expended all the oil necessary to make technological infrastructure which could be extracted without preexisting technological infrastructure and our industrial civilization wouldn't have been possible.
Remember the days when weed was called a gateway drug?

The left is viewing this as the gateway drug of conspiracy theories. That's why they think it's dangerous. If you buy into this, you're primed to buy into other conspiracies, like the covid jab being useless or denying elections. Or so their logic goes.
 

Syzygy

Well-known member
I've listened to Fingerprints of the Gods and Magicians of the Gods - they're free on youtube - which are filled with a variety of fanciful ideas held up by a simple thesis that everyone overlooks in favor of "lol ancient aliens": some archaeological discoveries don't quite line up with the popular conception of history. Which is a perfectly fair assumption since present ideas about history are guaranteed to be outdated beyond academic circles, which is also imperfect. For God's sake, people still cling to an idea of a past populated by the wholly ignorant who were beyond pathetic in their meager efforts to scrape together a sophisticated civilization. It's a perfectly innocuous idea; maybe we didn't know quite as much as we thought.

Why the janitorial elite see fit to scrub this particular voice from public ears is beyond me given how relatively insignificant it is, especially if it is fear of people being swayed to consider conspiracy theories since most - and this thread is a perfect example - can easily dismiss any outlandish claims and those given to conspiracies have likely accepted far worse. If I were the latter - and I am - I'd say it is a concerted effort to squash further investigation of prehistory so humanity doesn't stumble upon proof that the Silurians not only existed, but survived and are presently manipulating our species. Or maybe some members of academia don't want their claims to fame being scrutinized by members outside their curated circle of influence.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
I've not watched this show and honestly had no interest in watching it, but the backlash it is getting and where it is coming from is making me reconsider. And speaking of said backlash, it's making me wonder what it is about this show that's making the elite so angry/afraid.

Ok, first impression before watching: I know this guy from a JRE episode where he seems more concerned with seeing a good story than with accepting more likely mundane and acheologically backed up explanations.

Not sure if the elite hate him, I think barely anyone knows about him, and he's admitted to being more interested in telling/selling stories about ancient super-power wars (ala Finnish-Korean Hyperwar and similar stuff).

The best I can describe his position on the JRE episode was Gobekli Tepe being part of the works of some of the weird Altantean/pre-Ur Central Asian flood mythology of the Black Sea connection to the Med/Younger Dryas Impact Winter correlations he is likely interpreting wrong.

Will watch the rest of the vid to see what this is claiming to be about before I comment further.

So yeah, after watching it, it's what I thought, and yeah, the show is Hancock trying to play the Atlantis myth/Younger Dryas stuff into some fanciful crap that sells books/makes decent 'reality docudrama' TV.

Except that a lot of oil experts believe that oil is a replenishable resource...as in it's actively being produced by the earth.

There have been many oil wells that have run dry...that have mysteriously become full again when the drillers tap them again decades later. Anecdotal, but there are now studies looking into what mechanism/s may cause this.
This is caused by a misunderstanding between 'source rocks' and 'hydrocarbon traps/reservoir'; they are not always the same thing, and a lot of times hydrocarbons migrate along faults and fractures in the strata.

Thus a reservoir can recharge over time, and source rocks will slowly produced new hydrocarbons as they age. It's just most of the time we are talking about recharge over geological time periods.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
Except that a lot of oil experts believe that oil is a replenishable resource...as in it's actively being produced by the earth.

There have been many oil wells that have run dry...that have mysteriously become full again when the drillers tap them again decades later. Anecdotal, but there are now studies looking into what mechanism/s may cause this.
This is caused by a misunderstanding between 'source rocks' and 'hydrocarbon traps/reservoir'; they are not always the same thing, and a lot of times hydrocarbons migrate along faults and fractures in the strata.

Thus a reservoir can recharge over time, and source rocks will slowly produced new hydrocarbons as they age. It's just most of the time we are talking about recharge over geological time periods.
Doesn't math out.
Tens of thousands of years (since the Younger Dryas and collapse of the civilization of Hancock's hypothetical Atlanteans) vs millions of years (timeframe for oil to form). And that's not even getting into mineshafts and quaries, microplastic detritus, out-of-place orebodies, misplaced wildlife, etc.

I suppose there's always the thought that we're not finding Atlantean oilwells because they didn't use oil, their techbase was based on something entirely different which they ran out of, then collapsed.
MeerkatSolidarity said:
Just like how any civilization after ours will have to find a substitute for oil.
The Children of Time by Stephen Baxter said:
He flinched from the disappointment in her eyes, but he couldn't contain his excitement. "Look what I found, mother!"

She stared around. Her face showed incomprehension, disinterest. "What is it?"

His imagination leapt, fueled by wonder, and he tried to make her see what he saw. "Maybe once these rock walls were tall, tall as the ice itself. Maybe people lived here in great heaps, and the smoke of their fires rose up to the sky. Mother, will we come to live here again?"

"Perhaps one day," his mother said at random, to hush him.

The people never would return. By the time the returning ice had shattered their monocultural, over-extended technological civilization, people had exhausted the Earth of its accessible deposits of iron ore and coal and oil and other resources. People would survive: smart, adaptable, they didn't need cities for that. But with nothing but their most ancient technologies of stone and fire, they could never again conjure up the towers of Chicago. Soon even Jaal, distracted by the fiery eyes of Sura, would forget this place existed.
Memphet'ran said:
To look into the future of Emberverse humanity is to contemplate the depressing prospect of a history that has lost its vertical dimension and become a circle. Perhaps we'll be stuck in a sort of eternal eighteenth century forever, the rise and fall of countless empires being but ripples over an eternal essential stasis. Perhaps the next ice age will send humanity crashing back to the stone age and human history will become a wheel, civilizations flowering during the interglacials and dying again with the return of the ice, over and over again. Perhaps in a hundred thousand or a million years the next sufficiently bad supervolcano eruption or asteroid impact or other natural catastrophe will put an end to the tragicomedy. Or perhaps it will continue until the sun grows old; perhaps if we return in five hundred million years we will find humanity a living fossil, like the Coelecanth, still plowing their fields and building their cities in a world unrecognizably changed, our names and cities and nations, the very mountains and seas and lands and plants and animals we knew gone and forgotten under a staggering weight of history, libraries with history books that are shallow dips into an unimaginable ocean of forgotten millennia which we are the distant bed of. However it works out, it seems likely our potential is eternally stunted, any brighter future we might have hoped for strangled, any hope of deliverance from the many pains of life in an essentially nineteenth century civilization gone. There seems little hope for escape from such a future except that whatever monster gods condemned us to it will relent, or perhaps some friendly aliens will come along.
How many times? Rebuilding, only to collapse right before acquiring an unlimited source of resources and breaking the cycle as ideology and pennypinching sabotages space programs.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
In general there seems to be a few lines of attack forming a solid braid of outrage:

1. He has Joe Rogan on the show, that's enough.

2. Suggests something in the Bible must be true, extra-wicked.

3. Apparently saying there could be an advanced civilization in the past is racist.


And the answer to this smooth-brain's question is because we know exactly how the Greeks and Romans built the vast majority of their shit, because they were kind enough to write it down, and it's in a language that wasn't lost to time. The problem with something like say, the Egyptian pyramids, is that even after we figured out what their writing said, we still didn't find many details on just how they put them together.

But you know what? There actually are sites that the Greeks and Romans built upon that everyone just assumes are entirely Greek or Roman, and ignore things like blocks that are entirely too big for either civilization to have moved into place based on what is known of them. When it comes to stuff like that, I think I very much am in the same boat of saying that there was some previous advanced civilization that was wiped out by something or other and was forgotten about. I also very much agree that either Egyptian civilization is older than previously thought, or they certainly had tools and methods we no longer have knowledge of, because the ones we know about don't cut it, which is why the mystery persists. /rant
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Doesn't math out.
Tens of thousands of years (since the Younger Dryas and collapse of the civilization of Hancock's hypothetical Atlanteans) vs millions of years (timeframe for oil to form). And that's not even getting into mineshafts and quaries, microplastic detritus, out-of-place orebodies, misplaced wildlife, etc.

I suppose there's always the thought that we're not finding Atlantean oilwells because they didn't use oil, their techbase was based on something entirely different which they ran out of, then collapsed.

Just like how any civilization after ours will have to find a substitute for oil.


How many times? Rebuilding, only to collapse right before acquiring an unlimited source of resources and breaking the cycle as ideology and pennypinching sabotages space programs.
I never said the Atlanteans had oil wells, I was just commenting on why we do see the level/pressure in 'depleted' oil wells sometimes rise within the span of even a decade.

I doubt whatever Atlantis was had oil wells; they might have had a primitive smelter and some sort of celestial calendar system, but I doubt much beyond that.

It puts them ahead of their contemporaries, but it doesn't make them some sort of hyper advance precursor civilization.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
I never said the Atlanteans had oil wells, I was just commenting on why we do see the level/pressure in 'depleted' oil wells sometimes rise within the span of even a decade.

I doubt whatever Atlantis was had oil wells; they might have had a primitive smelter and some sort of celestial calendar system, but I doubt much beyond that.

It puts them ahead of their contemporaries, but it doesn't make them some sort of hyper advance precursor civilization.

Things get exaggerated and conflated over time so that's possible
 

Typhonis

Well-known member
The Egyptians could have done a number of things. Like using the fact water can remain level as a way to ensure things were level and stayed in the water when working on stone. Used a copper pipe and sand to drill holes into the harder rock. There is the internal ramp hypothesis for building the Great Pyramid.

As others have said we just don't know because the Egyptian texts on how they did it have not been found. 90% of Egypt's past is under the desert.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
Honestly I hadn't either until I started seeing articles about it. I didn't pay it much mind at first, but I just kept seeing more and more about it.

The man behind the series is an amateur anthropologist whose on that "Ancient high tech society pre-Stone age" kick. He's basically one of those dudes who think Tolkien and Robert E Howard were publishing hidden history rather than fiction. zaru.png

I'll say that I hate academics so much that I and millions of Americans find Hancock more credible than your average researcher but that still doesn't mean any of us take him as 100% legit. There was a great priest/archeologist who worked for the Vatican that tore up that "We found the body of Jesus" documentary. And what he called it was "Archeoporn" and that's a good term to use for this stuff as well.

How does this influence modern politics? Sure it'd be interesting and a bunch of history textbooks would have to be rewritten, but what about it would be so important to the modern world to motivate a massive conspiratorial coverup on the part of the status quo?

Butthurt, basically, "experts" and academics will falsify data, lie and perpetuate cover-ups to save face. Quite literally the entire covid pandemic/vaccine fetishism was one gigantic panic attack slash cope by big pharma and the FDA/CDC to save face.

Also, good ol'fashion corruption- the academic papers and the institution's preconceptions are money makers and this new theory would render most of those people unable to continue to get paid. Millions of innocent people have died from Alzheimer's and fatty liver disease due to deliberately falsified research conducted in the 90's that both defined how the medical field approaches dementia cirhorssis and how virtuous corn syrup is.
 
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Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Good overview of the Younger Dryas event and what it likely was, versus what Hancock tries to push.

 

Bassoe

Well-known member
I never said the Atlanteans had oil wells, I was just commenting on why we do see the level/pressure in 'depleted' oil wells sometimes rise within the span of even a decade.

I doubt whatever Atlantis was had oil wells; they might have had a primitive smelter and some sort of celestial calendar system, but I doubt much beyond that.

It puts them ahead of their contemporaries, but it doesn't make them some sort of hyper advance precursor civilization.
Yeah, my point is, if there wasn't some kind of Outside Context Problem involved, there'd be no practical motivation to keep them secret. I've read articles on how mainsteam archeology has the same ideological brainworms as everything these days, but it's still illogical.
In any case, occam's razor would appear to suggest the concept of 'when building with stone, we should put the larger portion at the bottom of the structure and have sloped walls so we can pull blocks up while assembling it' developing independently in multiple civilizations facing the same basic engineering challenge to be a simpler explanation than atlanteans or martians or whatever.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
Except that a lot of oil experts believe that oil is a replenishable resource...as in it's actively being produced by the earth.

There have been many oil wells that have run dry...that have mysteriously become full again when the drillers tap them again decades later. Anecdotal, but there are now studies looking into what mechanism/s may cause this.
Alien Mole People at the Center of a Hollow Earth: "What, they're using our civilization's shit to power their own? That's hilarious. And disgusting."

"We should give them something in kind, though. I mean, they're literally cleaning out our sky-sewers for us."

"Eh, I think they're getting enough from the arrangement as is. I'll contribute to the, ah, "trade effort" by having a tyrannosaurus curry tonight."

"How would that--- oh, ew. Ew."

"Be thankful, Sky Monkeys! My excretions shall power your automobiles for another day!"
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Yeah, my point is, if there wasn't some kind of Outside Context Problem involved, there'd be no practical motivation to keep them secret. I've read articles on how mainsteam archeology has the same ideological brainworms as everything these days, but it's still illogical.
In any case, occam's razor would appear to suggest the concept of 'when building with stone, we should put the larger portion at the bottom of the structure and have sloped walls so we can pull blocks up while assembling it' developing independently in multiple civilizations facing the same basic engineering challenge to be a simpler explanation than atlanteans or martians or whatever.
I don't think anything is being kept 'underwraps' about Atlantis, and do agree that pyramid shapes are just so stable that people independently across the world realized it made for good building profiles.

Though there is a outside context problem involved, and it is the climatic shifts around the Younger Dryas and what stared and ended it.

The more someone learns about the Younger Dryas, the more dramatic what humanity survived and overcame, and how it may play into the pre-historic origins of some myths handed down orally for centuries before writing/long term record keeping was a thing.

I think Atlantis, some Biblical myths, and a lot of the pre-recorded history myths that survived from before the time of Ur and such probably come from survivor accounts of when the climate shifted rapidly in a relatively short time, and stayed shifted for many centuries before warming again.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
In general there seems to be a few lines of attack forming a solid braid of outrage:

1. He has Joe Rogan on the show, that's enough.

2. Suggests something in the Bible must be true, extra-wicked.

3. Apparently saying there could be an advanced civilization in the past is racist.



I won't attribute these dudes to being racists. There could be some ethnocentric bias I think. I honestly don't recall many jokes or claims over the years about how the Parthenon or Coliseum was built by aliens. Stonehenge... might be an exception but those claims might've surfaced eventually and became popular thanks to the History Channel was busy claiming aliens being behind every fucking thing in history.

But yeah, I can recall people saying Pyramids. Aliens. Mayan Pyramids. Also aliens. Moai Easter Island Statues. Aliens. Nazca Lines. Aliens. Crystal Skulls. Aliens etc etc.

Now Ancient Aliens is a meme of course and people rather scream racism towards these folks instead of having any nuanced opinion of other people they disagree with.

Belief in Ancient Aliens doesn't make you racist and its pathetic to associate one with the other but the brain bug is there I feel in regards to a disproportionate amount of ancient sites beyond Europe being attributed to aliens or whatever and it's not hard to make the stretch that "it just so happens that darker skinned non-Europeans couldn't of done this, it was aliens" as having a racial component even if the claims made by the Ancient Aliens advocates don't possess any bigoted beliefs.
 
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Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I won't attribute these dudes to being racists. There could be some ethnocentric bias I think. I honestly don't recall many jokes or claims over the years about how the Parthenon or Coliseum was built by aliens. Stonehenge... might be an exception but those claims might've surfaced eventually and became popular thanks to the History Channel was busy claiming aliens being behind every fucking thing in history.

But yeah, I can recall people saying Pyramids. Aliens. Mayan Pyramids. Also aliens. Moai Easter Island Statues. Aliens. Nazca Lines. Aliens. Crystal Skulls. Aliens etc etc.

Now Ancient Aliens is a meme of course and people rather scream racism towards these folks instead of having any nuanced opinion of other people they disagree with.

Belief in Ancient Aliens doesn't make you racist and its pathetic to associate one with the other but the brain bug is there I feel in regards to a disproportionate amount of ancient sites beyond Europe being attributed to aliens or whatever and it's not hard to make the stretch that "it just so happens that darker skinned non-Europeans couldn't of done this, it was aliens" as having a racial component even if the claims made by the Ancient Aliens advocates don't possess any bigoted beliefs.
I've definitely seen Stonehenge show up on lists of ancient alien constructions. Hmm, has anybody claimed the Great Wall of China was built by aliens?
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Sotnik
I've definitely seen Stonehenge show up on lists of ancient alien constructions. Hmm, has anybody claimed the Great Wall of China was built by aliens?

Well that's different. It was built due to Aliens.



Be sure to take a moment and Thank China for saving the world.
 

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