Religion The ethics of disowning degenerate family members

Abhorsen said:
The problem is that the term Cultural Marxism is basically the right's way of referring to critical theory. A lot of the argument here is just people disagreeing what to call it.

And cultural marxism is an apt name for critical theory, if it didn't also have the historical context. The idea of critical theory, as envisioned by its creators, was to use the marxist way of looking at the world as oppressed and oppressors (which is how they do it. Economically, this becomes exploited and exploiters), and apply it to culture, and divorce it from economics (which I'd argue it can't be, but that's an academic debate not for here). The problem with critical theory, and the problem with Marxist economics in general, is that most relationships are mutually beneficial, without an oppressor and oppressed or exploiter and exploited.
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The problem with that is critical theory doesn't sound very much like whatever "cultural Marxism" is supposed to be. Critical theory is a reasonably influential philosophical school, that is consists largely of navel gazing by a bunch of German academics who can't agree on their basic premises. "Cultural Marxism" is some diabolical plot by all academics to destroy western civilization, for some unspecified reason.

Critical theory arguably doesn't even get applied to racial issues until the 1980s, so the idea that the originators of the term (we all know who they are, but there'll be whining if I say it) were referring to that is pretty much impossible.

Most people who are fine with gay people or divorce or whatever people are getting pissy about don't care about Hegelian responses to Marx. They just don't give a shit about other people's sex lives.
 
worm that walks said:
The problem with that is critical theory doesn't sound very much like whatever "cultural Marxism" is supposed to be. Critical theory is a reasonably influential philosophical school, that is consists largely of navel gazing by a bunch of German academics who can't agree on their basic premises. "Cultural Marxism" is some diabolical plot by all academics to destroy western civilization, for some unspecified reason.
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Critical theory, and more importantly, critical theory as applied to a variety of different topics, does have a huge affect on academic discourse and is the origin of much of woke culture, and many of the attacks on western civilization. The constant search for an oppressor and the oppressed leads to intersectionality and a concept of punching 'up' to be acceptable.

worm that walks said:
Critical theory arguably doesn't even get applied to racial issues until the 1980s, so the idea that the originators of the term (we all know who they are, but there'll be whining if I say it) were referring to that is pretty much impossible.
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Why would Nazis need for critical theory to be talking about racial tensions? Cultural Marxism is all about hating on the Fankfurt School. The Nazis used the Frankfurt school as an excuse to hate the Jews, while people who hate critical theory for its ideas also dislike the Frankfurt School for being its origin, irrespective of it being associated with Jews but instead because it's marxist. So the term Cultural Marxism as another term for critical theory is very apt (if we again ignore that it's associated with Nazis).

And on the right, most people have forgotten that it was associated with nazis, because the term is so apt. Most of the time I hear someone say it online, I assume they just mean critical theory and just aren't aware of context (like Jordan Peterson uses it, for example). It's not generally worth derailing a whole conversation unless there's other warning signs that make you think they hate the Jews or some such.

worm that walks said:
Most people who are fine with gay people or divorce or whatever people are getting pissy about don't care about Hegelian responses to Marx. They just don't give a shit about other people's sex lives.
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I don't care about other people's sex lives either (I'm not going to start throwing stones this late into this, my title gives me away slightly). I just despise when a conversation gets sidetracked because of a word or phrase. Basically, anytime you hear a righty talking about cultural marxism, know that they are just hating critical theory.
 
Abhorsen said:
Critical theory, and more importantly, critical theory as applied to a variety of different topics, does have a huge affect on academic discourse and is the origin of much of woke culture, and many of the attacks on western civilization. The constant search for an oppressor and the oppressed leads to intersectionality and a concept of punching 'up' to be acceptable.


Why would Nazis need for critical theory to be talking about racial tensions? Cultural Marxism is all about hating on the Fankfurt School. The Nazis used the Frankfurt school as an excuse to hate the Jews, while people who hate critical theory for its ideas also dislike the Frankfurt School for being its origin, irrespective of it being associated with Jews but instead because it's marxist. So the term Cultural Marxism as another term for critical theory is very apt (if we again ignore that it's associated with Nazis).

And on the right, most people have forgotten that it was associated with nazis, because the term is so apt. Most of the time I hear someone say it online, I assume they just mean critical theory and just aren't aware of context (like Jordan Peterson uses it, for example). It's not generally worth derailing a whole conversation unless there's other warning signs that make you think they hate the Jews or some such.


I don't care about other people's sex lives either (I'm not going to start throwing stones this late into this, my title gives me away slightly). I just despise when a conversation gets sidetracked because of a word or phrase. Basically, anytime you hear a righty talking about cultural marxism, know that they are just hating critical theory.
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If people are actually scared of critical theory, they need to get some perspective. It really doesn't matter and doesn't have significant influence outside of a corner of academia. If college kids getting pissy is enough to threaten western civilization, it deserve to be destroyed. Every time I have heard somebody go on about "Cultural Marxism" it is this grand plot to overthrow civilization, not a bunch of guys arguing in a corner of the philosophy department.

Most people who are cool with trans people or gay people don't care about any of this stuff. It's like people can't accept that most people don't share their hang ups and have to imagine there is a secret society making people think who you sleep with is your own business.
 
While I don’t think we should be an echo chamber, we’re also not a hug box. If your going to have opinions that go against the majority of the site, then we’re going to assume that you have a thick skin.

I don’t think anyone dogpiled them or was in any way personally abusive. Worm probably just couldn’t stand our beliefs.
 
Hlaalu Agent said:
Unfortunate, having different opinions here is a good thing. We don't want to have an echo chamber. Equally unfortunate is that is appears he couldn't handle having people openly disagree with him and not get shouted down.
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Echo chamber is an empty term.
I consider the idea that this place should be some kind of normie forum where we try to draw a spectrum of people in disgusting, there are an almost infinite number of normie forums out there (coincidentally they're all getting conquered by SJWs! wow! I'm sure thats a coincidence!) for moderates to bury their heads in the sand until the left finds the time to hack them off.

This is a right wing hang out that allows others to join, not Spacebattles 2.
 
I wouldn’t mind a few token liberals or communists, if only for us to sharpen out debating skills.
 
Lord Invictus said:
I wouldn’t mind a few token liberals or communists, if only for us to sharpen out debating skills.
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Well thats exactly why, yes. Commies are free to come here and get knocked down like bowling pins, but we shouldn't be acting like we're welcoming them here in good faith, they're here to fight and ideally to lose, publicly, so that people can see their ideas fail.
 
Shipmaster Sane said:
Well thats exactly why, yes. Commies are free to come here and get knocked down like bowling pins, but we shouldn't be acting like we're welcoming them here in good faith, they're here to fight and ideally to lose, publicly, so that people can see their ideas fail.
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debating politics is only a valuable skill if you think people can be changed by others. Otherwise moving your mouth (about philosophy) is a wasted energy that could be used for sharpening other skills. Business, combat, ect.
 
Hastur of Carcosa said:
debating is only a valuable skill if you think people can change.
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Thinking you have to convince your opponent is forgetting that other people exist besides your opponent. The vast majority of people are simply unfamiliar with the left's apologetics and unarmed with coherent responses to them. Seeing a leftist going down in flames educates them.
 
Shipmaster Sane said:
Thinking you have to convince your opponent is forgetting that other people exist besides your opponent. The vast majority of people are simply unfamiliar with the left's apologetics and unarmed with coherent responses to them. Seeing a leftist going down in flames educates them.
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If they havin't learned the first 15,000 times they will never learn short of a pound of flesh being cut from them. It was not speeches, but violence (Specifically everything being touched to the ground) that changed people's minds. People only react to power and violence.
 
Hastur of Carcosa said:
If they havin't learned the first 15,000 times they will never learn short of a pound of flesh being cut from them. It was not speeches, but violence changed people's minds. People only react to power and violence.
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This is simply not the case, otherwise no conqueror would ever give speeches.

Special Measures style Demoralization is not unilateral, not everyone is completely insulated inside their own ignorance. There are many people who simply do not know the facts about Gun Control, for example, and have an "epiphany" when they see them broadcast.
A few years ago I didnt know that Lesbianism overwhelmingly meant spousal abuse, or that most Homosexuals were raped as children, or that being transgender was more lethal than cancer.
Roll the wheel of time back a little further and I diddnt know that the KKK was full of Democrats that are still celebrated by their party today, I didn't know that Hitler instituted staunchly marxist market laws, I didn't know that the sex abuse scandals in the church coincidentally exploded after the soviets launched a now made public campaign of infiltration into the clergy by agents selected specifically for their homosexual tendencies because it would be "easier" for them to go without women.

It was not so long ago now that you couldn't consider me a political animal whatsoever, I was content in misery, to shamble through life dooming and cooming and consooming and neutrally ignoring the cultural conflict evolving around me. Vaguely beaten down by the apologia I was immersed in, not accepting, not fighting, just letting the world boil around me slowly like every useless nerd who thinks they want to be left alone.
And what changed was exposure to two things:
Leftist meltdowns
Information regarding right wing positions

When you argue against a leftist coherently you get both.





Exposure to reality is not worthless to everyone just because it is worthless to a number of people.
 
Hastur of Carcosa said:
why these two things? What clicked? Was it hatred disgust, curiosity?
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Like I said, exposure to reality has a profound effect on most people. Most people are not demoralized to the point where they can look at black and call it white, so when they see you argue that white is white, and you show them your enemy saying that black is white, they understand fundamentally.


You know the metaphor of the boiling frog? Frogs will sit there and be boiled alive if you turn the heat up slowly enough? Well to break conditioning you have to do the opposite. Moderation and the slow hypnosis of shifting positions towards an ultimate goal are the weapons of the enemy, they are not our strength. Our strength is the shock a person experiences when they see an SJW shit themselves in public, screaming, because someone said something objectively correct.



Hastur of Carcosa said:
you mean your still not like this minus the neutrality and the "consooming"tm?
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A Doomer is passive and miserable in their cynicism, too weak to change anything, too weak to solidly grasp a vision of the future.
A Coomer is a slave to empty sexual pursuits, an animal dominated by it's appetites that creates nothing and divorces act from meaning.
A Consoomer is a slave to the impractical, to the product, a slave to the act of play, to the anesthetizing propaganda of modern culture.
 
Shipmaster Sane said:
to shamble through life dooming and cooming and consooming
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Shipmaster Sane said:
A Doomer is passive and miserable in their cynicism, too weak to change anything, too weak to solidly grasp a vision of the future.
A Coomer is a slave to empty sexual pursuits, an animal dominated by it's appetites that creates nothing and divorces act from meaning.
A Consoomer is a slave to the impractical, to the product, a slave to the act of play, to the anesthetizing propaganda of modern culture.
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Makes sense. What do you call someone who is active in thier cynasim. Instead of being passive they play the game to win?
 
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