Breaking News Trump Has Been Released.... And @RealDonaldTrump Has Been Unleashed

Airedale260 said:
Nobody got a landslide. Trump says otherwise, but that’s because he’s Trump. This is the same guy who was so put out that his inauguration crowds were smaller than Obama’s that he tried (and failed) to prove otherwise with satellite images.



Except that the cards were shown, and when foul was cried, their claims were shot down in court because they couldn’t prove it and admitted they didn’t know what they were talking about. The “strategy” such as it was was to claim the courts wouldn’t hear the motions and therefore were in on it. That got shot to hell when a court in Wisconsin (presided over by a judge appointed by Trump himself) agreed to hear the case, and the Trump campaign said “okay, yeah, we agree with the other side’s argument that there was no fraud, or if there was, it was so minuscule as to not affect the outcome.”



And see, this is a fair opinion. I somewhat disagree with it, since I think he has a better understanding of issues than Trump did, but he also did or rather didn’t do things necessary to be a good SecDef. What pissed a lot of people off is, when he resigned over a policy disagreement and did so respectfully (which is how things work at that level and is considered the honorable thing to do in such a situation), Trump promptly blasted him on Twitter, which is a frankly immature way to handle such disagreements.



If you want to engage in a debate and refute what I said, I’m right here. Since you apparently don’t and instead are reduced to making snide comments about those of us who are more than willing to call you out for spouting BS rather than constructively engage, that tells ,e you know at least deep down you don’t have a leg to stand on.

You’re free to criticize whomever you want. But understand, people also have the right to criticize your criticism. That’s the whole point of forums like this, to debate and discuss.

Anyway...his tweet bashing Fox and saying “new alternatives are coming” makes me wonder if he’s going to try and actually launch Trump TV. That would be...interesting.
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Mattis is one of the reason we are still in the middle fucking east
 
Floridaman said:
Sunk cost fallacy, admitting we were wrong, means our officer corps led thousands of americans to their death for nothing.
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And political suicide and probably getting the families of angry soldiers at their doors

Honestly, aside from stuff involving terrorists and the like, why are they even in those countries, just to know?

Because I think you guys already have lots of untapped resources up till now in the USA alone, oil included
 
Floridaman said:
Sunk cost fallacy, admitting we were wrong, means our officer corps led thousands of americans to their death for nothing.
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The frustrating thing, is it wasn't 'nothing' in the first place. Punitive action was both justified, and makes sense from a political perspective.

We're long past that and well into sunk cost issues now though. Nation-building can be done, but you have to be a flat-out Imperialist, where you write the laws, you enforce the laws, and you run the education system, at least for a generation, for it to have any real chance at working.

And that's not what just about anybody in America signed up for.
 
CarlManvers2019 said:
And political suicide and probably getting the families of angry soldiers at their doors

Honestly, aside from stuff involving terrorists and the like, why are they even in those countries, just to know?

Because I think you guys already have lots of untapped resources up till now in the USA alone, oil included
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Because people bought into the idea of the end of history, people believed they had entered into a New Democratic world order. And that the people of Iraq and Afghanistan would welcome them as liberators, and gleefully go about becoming a mirror image of our system. When spoiler, that isn’t the natural order it is very much abnormality, so of course it was rejected. The best you get is what you have now, one tribe claiming the role of president and oppressing the rest, but then that was exactly what Saddam did.
 
Floridaman said:
Because people bought into the idea of the end of history, people believed they had entered into a New Democratic world order. And that the people of Iraq and Afghanistan would welcome them as liberators, and gleefully go about becoming a mirror image of our system. When spoiler, that isn’t the natural order it is very much abnormality, so of course it was rejected. The best you get is what you have now, one tribe claiming the role of president and oppressing the rest, but then that was exactly what Saddam did.
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And the "reich" will last a thousand years. There's no end of history. It's just marching on and on as nations rise and fall.
 
Floridaman said:
Because people bought into the idea of the end of history, people believed they had entered into a New Democratic world order. And that the people of Iraq and Afghanistan would welcome them as liberators, and gleefully go about becoming a mirror image of our system. When spoiler, that isn’t the natural order it is very much abnormality, so of course it was rejected. The best you get is what you have now, one tribe claiming the role of president and oppressing the rest, but then that was exactly what Saddam did.
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Autocrats who rule with an iron fist are the only people who can keep order in the developing world. There, I said it.

The best thing you can do with these dictators is, via a combination of muscling and financial incentive, to get them to gently loosen their grip of iron. If you can get the "Imperious leader" to exile instead of execute his political opponents, you've done a great deal of good. In time, you may move it to a sort of "Constitutional Autocracy", but that would take decades.
 
Lord Sovereign said:
Autocrats who rule with an iron fist are the only people who can keep order in the developing world. There, I said it.

The best thing you can do with these dictators is, via a combination of muscling and financial incentive, to get them to gently loosen their grip of iron. If you can get the "Imperious leader" to exile instead of execute his political opponents, you've done a great deal of good. In time, you may move it to a sort of "Constitutional Autocracy", but that would take decades.
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I'd say we just leave the area and treat it like a zoo. The only time a person goes near a wild animal is if there is a thick layer of glass between them. Why should wild men be treated any different. The area is scorched to the point that the only thing of value is oil and we have plenty of reserves that are untapped. By the time we run out we'll have hopefully found a better alternative.
 
Hastur of Carcosa said:
I'd say we just leave the area and treat it like a zoo. The only time a person goes near a wild animal is if there is a thick layer of glass between them. Why should wild men be treated any different. The area is scorched to the point that the only thing of value is oil and we have plenty of reserves that are untapped. By the time we run out we'll have hopefully found a better alternative.
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In a less interconnected world, perhaps. But as we don't live in such a world, it is in the interests of everyone, including the people who live there, to keep the area stable.
 
Lord Sovereign said:
In a less interconnected world, perhaps. But as we don't live in such a world, it is in the interests of everyone, including the people who live there, to keep the area stable.
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it won't happen though. You have too many people there who think it's there world and everybody else is just a nuisance or tool that happen to be in it. Stability vs instability depend on whether the rest of the world care enough to pay attention. it's always going to be unstable. either we leave it alone or we imperialize it. This half and half bull hockey has gotten us nowhere for 40 years now.
 
Hastur of Carcosa said:
I'd say we just leave the area and treat it like a zoo. The only time a person goes near a wild animal is if there is a thick layer of glass between them. Why should wild men be treated any different. The area is scorched to the point that the only thing of value is oil and we have plenty of reserves that are untapped. By the time we run out we'll have hopefully found a better alternative.
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Too much would go wrong for us if we did, at a minimum we can’t until Iran is no longer a threat. Now, I will say that Trump’s moves to get the Gulf States to recognize Israel are huge steps to that goal, but until there is firm cooperation between Israel and the others (which has to include Saudi Arabia) we can’t completely ignore them. Well, that and we need the Arab states to be able to at least fight their way out of a wet paper bag on their own...

Plus even if we are stable, most of Europe is dependent upon it, as is Asia. I don’t mind France and Germany being inconvenienced, but the rest of Europe is a different story. As for Asia, China can go fuck itself with a rusty razor blade but Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are critical U.S. allies.
 
Airedale260 said:
Too much would go wrong for us if we did, at a minimum we can’t until Iran is no longer a threat. Now, I will say that Trump’s moves to get the Gulf States to recognize Israel are huge steps to that goal, but until there is firm cooperation between Israel and the others (which has to include Saudi Arabia) we can’t completely ignore them. Well, that and we need the Arab states to be able to at least fight their way out of a wet paper bag on their own...

Plus even if we are stable, most of Europe is dependent upon it, as is Asia. I don’t mind France and Germany being inconvenienced, but the rest of Europe is a different story. As for Asia, China can go fuck itself with a rusty razor blade but Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan are critical U.S. allies.
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apart from China none of them are any threat, so beyond Asia, I have no problem leaving Europe out to dry. If they want us to defend them, they should cover both the actual cost, and the opportunity cost we bear, by having our populace bear arms to defend them.
 
Floridaman said:
apart from China none of them are any threat, so beyond Asia, I have no problem leaving Europe out to dry. If they want us to defend them, they should cover both the actual cost, and the opportunity cost we bear, by having our populace bear arms to defend them.
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I don't think there's anyone outside our governments that are overly enthused by being militarily helplessly dependent on the US.
 
Lord Sovereign said:
Maybe you should. At least then European governments might stop being utterly retarded with defence spending.
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I hate to say it Sov but with all of the problems you have you still live in one of the smarter european countries on that issue, the other ones being France and poland every one else when a crisis comes?


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Cherico said:
I hate to say it Sov but with all of the problems you have you still live in one of the smarter european countries on that issue, the other ones being France and poland every one else when a crisis comes?
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Given current European elite attitudes towards the armed forces, that is not a high bar to clear.
 
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