United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

Captain X said:

Yes, I'm sure it will work just like giving Hitler the parts of Czechoslovakia worked.

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Funny you should mention him; because the ones who keep insisting he was actually a pretty cool dude in Ukraine are on our side. I am seriously getting tired of arguing with people suffering from Putin Derangement Syndrome.

TyrantTriumphant said:

He's just an expansionist authoritarian douchebag.

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No, he's not; not in this case at least. We're the expansionist authoritarian douchebags here; Crimea voted to rejoin Russia (and I swear to god, if another jackass tries to assert that the vote was rigged without any evidence beyond "it's Russia", I am going to do something not nice), and Donbass asked for their help in trying to defend themselves against an illegitimate government. Meanwhile, we're the ones who backed a violent coup that overthrew the legitimate government of Ukraine.

TyrantTriumphant said:

I'm not saying we shouldn't help the Ukraine

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I am; because the people we'd be helping are murderous tyrants who have done nothing but cause death and suffering since they seized power. Let Russia help the Ukrainian people take back their country; it would be the only moral thing to do in this situation.

Zachowon said:

You think we can't fight a two front war?

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I don't think we could win a war against a ham sandwich right now; not with this administration calling the shots.

Zachowon said:

You think we can't fight a two front war?

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In theory, with everything lining up in our favor, maybe we could for a short while.

Under current circumstances, not a chance.

The US public does not want any more wars, period, our logistics are iffy for our current needs as is, and Ukraine is not a situation where we are the 'good guys', unlike the situation with Taiwan.

Terthna said:

Funny you should mention him; because the ones who keep insisting he was actually a pretty cool dude in Ukraine are on our side. I am seriously getting tired of arguing with people suffering from Putin Derangement Syndrome.




No, he's not; not in this case at least. We're the expansionist authoritarian douchebags here; Crimea voted to rejoin Russia (and I swear to god, if another jackass tries to assert that the vote was rigged without any evidence beyond "it's Russia", I am going to do something not nice), and Donbass asked for their help in trying to defend themselves against an illegitimate government. Meanwhile, we're the ones who backed a violent coup that overthrew the legitimate government of Ukraine.




I am; because the people we'd be helping are murderous tyrants who have done nothing but cause death and suffering since they seized power. Let Russia help the Ukrainian people take back their country; it would be the only moral thing to do in this situation.




I don't think we could win a war against a ham sandwich right now; not with this administration calling the shots.

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You do know the president doesn't make tactical or strategic decisions majority of the time right?
During a war besides a few specificthings, the generals (Not milley) lead the military

Bacle said:

In theory, with everything lining up in our favor, maybe we could for a short while.

Under current circumstances, not a chance.

The US public does not want any more wars, period, our logistics are iffy for our current needs as is, and Ukraine is not a situation where we are the 'good guys', unlike the situation with Taiwan.

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How so? Letting a people who hate Russia suffer?
Our allies in Europe pissed even more so?
Wow who would have thought....

The public wouldn't matter as we CAN fight a war on two fronts.
We do have the capabilities to do so as well

Zachowon said:

You do know the president doesn't make tactical or strategic decisions majority of the time right?
During a war besides a few specificthings, the generals (Not milley) lead the military

How so? Letting a people who hate Russia suffer?
Our allies in Europe pissed even more so?
Wow who would have thought....

The public wouldn't matter as we CAN fight a war on two fronts.
We do have the capabilities to do so as well

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If you think the public will does not matter in this situation, you have been stuck inside the military bubble and echo chamber for too long. Technical capability to fight a two-front war is nothing without the public will and logistical capacity/depth to keep both fronts going.

Also, people who hate Russia are not necessarily our friends, just because they hate Russia. @Terthna is not wrong about the Nazi fanboys in the current Ukrainian gov, nor about what happened during the Maiden, and his term 'Putin Derangement Syndrome' seems pretty apt for the way a good chunk of the military and DC act in regards to Ukraine. It never seems to cross your minds that maybe the people of Ukraine legitimately preferred being in the Russian sphere, instead of trying to be brought into NATO as a "partner".

Reinforce the Baltics and Balkans if we must, but Ukraine is not worth fighting or dying over, not when it could all too easily escalate to nukes if we start having US and Russian troops actually engaging each other.

Zachowon said:

You do know the president doesn't make tactical or strategic decisions majority of the time right?
During a war besides a few specificthings, the generals (Not milley) lead the military

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Tell that to the veterans who to this day insist that it was the politicians that lost them the Korean and Vietnam wars.

Zachowon said:

You think we can't fight a two front war?

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i have zero confidence in the current admin.

Terthna said:

Russia doesn't want territory; they want a buffer region between them and NATO.

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Russia does want territory. Enough to bolster the buffer region you mention AND to ensure they have access to their 'warm water' ports...of which they have one in the Black Sea. The latter is a strategic issue for Russia similar in importance to Cuba having nukes was for the US, though in reverse. It's their ability to project power and trade whereas Cuba was a direct threat to the US.

The Whispering Monk said:

Russia does want territory. Enough to bolster the buffer region you mention AND to ensure they have access to their 'warm water' ports...of which they have one in the Black Sea. The latter is a strategic issue for Russia similar in importance to Cuba having nukes was for the US, though in reverse. It's their ability to project power and trade whereas Cuba was a direct threat to the US.

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If that's the case, then we handed them Crimea and Donbass (and potentially all of Ukraine) on a silver platter.

Zachowon said:

You think we can't fight a two front war?

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We just finished getting routed by a bunch of guerrilla barbarians with rusty ex-soviet equipment. I don't think we can fight a one-front war.

Zachowon said:

You think we can't fight a two front war?

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Not with the current size of the armed forces at least on our own. We need at the minimum mid 90s force levels to do that

Bassoe said:

We just finished getting routed by a bunch of guerrilla barbarians with rusty ex-soviet equipment. I don't think we can fight a one-front war.

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You mean how we were winning every engagement with them and were so good at fighting them they hid away for years just to try again and get thier asses handed to tjem once again.

Zachowon said:

You mean how we were winning every engagement with them and were so good at fighting them they hid away for years just to try again and get thier asses handed to tjem once again.

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Prowess and tech on the battlefield means little if the political winds change, the domestic situation is no longer in favor of continued conflict, or the leaders in DC are just malicious or incompetent.

All 3 happened in A-stan, and they didn't have nukes, Russia does, and so does China.

In Ukraine...we never should have tried to get involved there, even after the rebels downed that airliner on accident. Selling Ukraine weapons is one thing in the public mind, sending troops there to possibly fight actual Russian forces is vastly different.

All the current compromise does is basically restore the pre-Gorby Ukraine/Russian border.

If Russia makes a move on the Baltics or Balkans, that's unacceptable.

But I think that the Baltics also present less of value and are less connected to Russia historically than the Donbass and Black sea coast in rebel hands/Crimea.

If anyone had historical claim over the Baltics, it'd be Poland, not Russia, and Russia already has Kaliningrad for a warmwater port in the Baltics.

There are options between fighting Russia's historical influence in Eastern Europe, and pushing NATO farther east, and complete surrender to Russian dreams of recreating the USSR. We have to treat Russia with respect, not contempt, if we want them to ever feel like we aren't looking for any excuse to interfere in their affairs, and maybe be willing to do the same with us.

Particularly if we ever want Russia to feel safe enough to not see China as the lesser threat to their long term interests.

That does not mean we have to abandon eastern Europe either; quite the opposite actually. Help Poland become a UK level power, and help them get enough civie nuke power to offset Russian nat gas. It will change the balance in Eastern Europe, and help provide a strong, independently powerful ally in the region that is not Woke and is not a Russian stooge.

And giving Romania more weapons wouldn't hurt; let Vald's people do what they do best, and they will take care of themselves. Maybe see about giving them civie nuke tech too.

Yall really think it will stop with Russia and Ukraine?
China and Taiwan will be next.
Just you watch

Terthna said:

If that's the case, then we handed them Crimea and Donbass (and potentially all of Ukraine) on a silver platter.

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Rewarding Russian aggression is a sign of abject weakness. China would invade Taiwan soon after.

Lord Sovereign said:

Rewarding Russian aggression is a sign of abject weakness. China would invade Taiwan soon after.

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when you get down to it though that responsibility is the EU we can supply weapons and supplies but this is in the EUs backyard and any failure to resist russia at this point is the fault of the countries of the european union.

Zachowon said:

Yall really think it will stop with Russia and Ukraine?
China and Taiwan will be next.
Just you watch

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That you think those are comparable just show how utterly detached from reality you are. I hope your superiors aren't putting you in charge of anything important.

Lord Sovereign said:

Rewarding Russian aggression is a sign of abject weakness. China would invade Taiwan soon after.

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Russia aren't the aggressors when it comes to Ukraine; we are. You know; because of the coup we backed, which started all this?

You do know there is a large population in Ukraine who hatres Russai right?
Russia wont stop with Ukraine. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania

Zachowon said:

You do know there is a large population in Ukraine who hatres Russai right?
Russia wont stop with Ukraine. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania

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And a larger population who not only loves them, but hates the illegitimate Ukrainian government as well. Also, Russia didn't start with Ukraine. We did. They just retaliated.

Yeah, Ukrainians totally love Russia - there's no bad blood or history there, like at all.

Captain X said:

Yeah, Ukrainians totally love Russia - there's no bad blood or history there, like at all.

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Cough, Holodomor, cough.