United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Yeah, Ukrainians totally love Russia - there's no bad blood or history there, like at all. :rolleyes:
Have you ever talked to someone who lives in Ukraine about their country? Because I have; and a lot of Ukrainians "totally" do love Russia. Or at least, like them better than western Europe and the United States. The fact that they voted in a pro-Russia president ought to be evidence enough of that.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Have you ever talked to someone who lives in Ukraine about their country? Because I have; and a lot of Ukrainians "totally" do love Russia. Or at least, like them better than western Europe and the United States. The fact that they voted in a pro-Russia president ought to be evidence enough of that.
Yes, I'm sure they love Russia so much that they totally want to be part of it again. :rolleyes:
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I know some and met plenty of Ukrainians that hate Russia.
One has said he loves the west and gates Russia in every sense of the word, and would volunteer to fight in Ukraine as an American.
His whole family hates Ukraine. A large portion of Kiev westerward hate Russia from what I understand
 

prinCZess

Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
The fact that they voted in a pro-Russia president ought to be evidence enough of that.
Yes, actually; that's why Crimea voted to do exactly that after the coup.
Voting in both Ukraine and regions Russia wants are not very reliable polls of actual public sentiment since both Ukraine--pre and post-Maidan, and Russia, have incentive and willingness to rig votes (or have friendly men with guns staring at people as they vote to encourage the right people vote).

Not arguing in any direction--it's just a bad measure of public sentiment for either pro or anti stuff.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
I know some and met plenty of Ukrainians that hate Russia.
One has said he loves the west and gates Russia in every sense of the word, and would volunteer to fight in Ukraine as an American.
His whole family hates Ukraine. A large portion of Kiev westerward hate Russia from what I understand
Well that's because western Ukraine was Ukraine before Gorby redrew the lines, most of 'modern' eastern Ukraine was western Russia, and Kiev seems to sit pretty close to the dividing line.

So it makes since that the pro-Russia faction of Ukraine is mostly in the east, because there are people their who remember when it was western Russia, and Gorby didn't ask their opinion when he redrew the map.

It's like all subtly, nuance, and historical context disappear when it means not treating Russia as an evil empire and not trying to reignite/continue the Cold War.

Russia isn't perfect and has the blood of the airliner on it's hands due to what their rebels did, but the Ukrainian gov is corrupt and seem ok with literal neo-Nazi's in their military. Plus what started this whole clusterfuck was what amounts to a NATO backed coup in the Maidan, because we could not accept that a country could prefer to be in Russia's sphere than in NATO's. We could not stop trying to push NATO east, and it backfired massively on us.
 

DarthOne

☦️
Here are the 14 Republicans who voted on the motion to invoke cloture which would allow the Democrats to raise the debt ceiling with no upper limit (blank check):

Mitch McConnell (KY)

John Barrasso (WY)

Roy Blunt (MO)

Richard Burr (NC)

Shelley Moore Capito (WV)

Susan Collins (ME)

John Cornyn (TX)

Joni Ernst (IA)

Lisa Murkowski (AL)

Rob Portman (OH)

Mitt Romney (UT)

Thom Tillis (NC)

John Thune (SD)

Roger Wicker (MS)
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Well that's because western Ukraine was Ukraine before Gorby redrew the lines, most of 'modern' eastern Ukraine was western Russia, and Kiev seems to sit pretty close to the dividing line.

So it makes since that the pro-Russia faction of Ukraine is mostly in the east, because there are people their who remember when it was western Russia, and Gorby didn't ask their opinion when he redrew the map.

It's like all subtly, nuance, and historical context disappear when it means not treating Russia as an evil empire and not trying to reignite/continue the Cold War.

Russia isn't perfect and has the blood of the airliner on it's hands due to what their rebels did, but the Ukrainian gov is corrupt and seem ok with literal neo-Nazi's in their military. Plus what started this whole clusterfuck was what amounts to a NATO backed coup in the Maidan, because we could not accept that a country could prefer to be in Russia's sphere than in NATO's. We could not stop trying to push NATO east, and it backfired massively on us.
So what about all the land Ukraine has that was Polish? What about Kaliningrad? Is that ancient Russian land?

Oh? Do we have unbiased polls showing they favor Russia iver Ukraine?
How come so many people have joined the Ukrainians in fighting in Donbass?
The thing is, most Eastern European countries have done better since leaving Russia. If you say any lines Gorby redraw should be given back...you are giving a lot if Eatern European countries to the Ruskies
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
So what about all the land Ukraine has that was Polish? What about Kaliningrad? Is that ancient Russian land?

Oh? Do we have unbiased polls showing they favor Russia iver Ukraine?
How come so many people have joined the Ukrainians in fighting in Donbass?
The thing is, most Eastern European countries have done better since leaving Russia. If you say any lines Gorby redraw should be given back...you are giving a lot if Eatern European countries to the Ruskies
It's not about 'ancient Russian land'; Gorby redrew those lines before the Cold War ended, and the other nations you are implying this would affect were independent republics within the USSR itself.

It's no different than when the Brits and French fucked up the MidEast by drawing lines on maps that had little reflection in local politics or history.

And you are purposely exaggerating and misrepresenting what I said, because there can be no nuance in these matters in your mind, just pro-US or pro-Russia views, and having a view of history that doesn't keep Cold War grudges going endangers DoD budgets.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Voting in both Ukraine and regions Russia wants are not very reliable polls of actual public sentiment since both Ukraine--pre and post-Maidan, and Russia, have incentive and willingness to rig votes (or have friendly men with guns staring at people as they vote to encourage the right people vote).

Not arguing in any direction--it's just a bad measure of public sentiment for either pro or anti stuff.
Point, but that reputation is the only evidence anyone has ever presented to argue against their legitimacy; and quite frankly? I'm not convinced. Maybe I just don't have a big enough hate-boner for Russia.



If public sentiment toward Russia in Crimea was representative of the rest of Ukraine the political situation would be very different from what it is.
All it takes is a small minority to screw things up for everyone else. The Nazis for example only ever counted among their membership a small fraction of the total population of Germany; and look what they managed to accomplish.
 

Typhonis

Well-known member
the fuck is going on? What did McConnell promise both of my Senators to get them to vote for it? Then again if the Senate was split 50/50 it would come down to Harris casting the deciding vote.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Tell that to the veterans who to this day insist that it was the politicians that lost them the Korean and Vietnam wars.

It was. If you had any significant knowledge of those conflicts, you would know that's exactly what happened. The US military wasn't even in Vietnam anymore when we 'lost' that war, because the Democrats in congress refused to honor commitments to support the South Koreans with arms and supplies.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
It was. If you had any significant knowledge of those conflicts, you would know that's exactly what happened. The US military wasn't even in Vietnam anymore when we 'lost' that war, because the Democrats in congress refused to honor commitments to support the South Koreans with arms and supplies.
Exactly.
The US Military succeeded heavily in every war it fought in.
It has been limited by politica
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top