ASOIAF/GOT ASOIAF Ideas, Recs, and Discussion thread

D

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Oh, you misread it. The Ironborn plan is as follows:

1. Gather the Iron Fleet. At the same time, send a message to Tywin telling him "We're attacking the Reach. You got a problem with that?"
2a. If Tywin doesn't express a problem with that, the Iron Fleet sacks the Reach, giving the royalists a bad enough time to break or even prevent the Siege of Storm's End, and get rich in the process.
2b. If Tywin does have a problem with that, which implies a royalist Tywin, the lighter ships of the Iron Fleet would go to Ironman's Bay and get taken over land to the Blue Fork, to support Robert and his allies in the Riverlands, giving the royalists a bad time while the strongest ships of the Iron Fleet defend the Iron Islands against reprisal from Tywin. Not as much loot or glory to be had, but the more direct support of Robert would promise greater political rewards, such as forcing the royalist!Tywin to back off on what concessions he'd been extracting from the Iron Islands due to raiding during the "rule" of Tytos Lannister.
Essentially their plan is to determine where Tywin stands, and then go from there? And also forcing Tywin into giving them more leeway and no more Lanngeld?

Tywin would probably either not respond or not give an answer that could be seen as clear and definite.

If you take the notion that he always wanted Robert to win, he’d probably be fine with them sacking the reach.

If Tywin is more royalist, then the ironborn can menace Fair Isle and force the Lannister’s to keep their attention westward.

So they are basically deliberating on the plan of action. And however Tywin falls, is where they go in response.

I’d also be skeptical about an Ironborn plan to sack the Reach. They might be able to raze the shield islands and sail up the Mander, but House Hightower and the Tyrell’s will have knights at their backs in about a day-unless you believe the bulk of the Tyrell forces were at Storm’s End. Which limits how much loot they can get.

Not to mention the Hightower’s have a fleet as well. And no doubt the local Reach lords on the coast would have word to Highgarden as fast as the raven flies.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Idea: The Iron Islands under Balon’s rule right before canon get visited by “emissaries of the Drowned God” who are Deep Ones and other aquatic mini-eldritch horrors going on about long overdue “taxes”

This somehow leads to Theon Greyjoy having to come back to the Iron Islands to go meet his new bride

Who is supposedly a daughter of the Drowned God itself

Everywhere else, weird things occur, like Norvosi Smiths coming to Winterfell to worship their God and offer their services, said God is actually a Goddess who is busy rock climbing with Bran
 
D

Deleted member 88

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So thinking of a Tyrell-Baratheon victory in the Wot5K. I imagine Melisandre, for whatever reason doesn't accompany Stannis to Storm's End, maybe she breaks her leg on Dragonstone or something.

Stannis dies outside the walls of Storm's End as Renly begins to march to King's Landing.

Stannis did manage to inflict losses on Renly, 5,000 to 7,500 Reach and Stormmen died.

Anyway, that doesn't but dent Renly's vast numerical advantage. So Tyrion prepares a doomed defense of the city-seeking to hold the Blackwater Rush as long as possible. While organizing the evacuation of the court to Stokeworth and from there, Harrenhal. However, he can not move fast enough.

A defense of attrition does delay Renly for a time, but the defense can't hold. Tyrion and Cersei die together in the Red Keep, with Cersei showing some surprising bravery of her own. Slaying men at arms with a crossbow and decapitating a man with a sword. Renly had hoped to take the Imp and Queen alive, though neither were too keen on the prospect. Alongside them die Joffrey. Tommen is sent with Balon Swann and Meryn Trant hard to Harrenhall.

As Renly's banner rises in the morning. The city is burned, exhausted and its population starving. The Goldcloaks are basically destroyed as an institution. Shireen is queen on Dragonstone, Selyse having rejected offers of marriage from the Lannisters and Selyse is increasingly under Melisandre's influence, as Mel sees terrible visions in her flames.

Robb Stark ravages the Westerlands and gets as far as within a half day's ride of the rock. However his men are attrited, due to Westermen ambushes in the hills, The Lannisters of Lannisport even placing caltrops on the main roads. So he returns victorious but suffering moderate losses to Riverrun.

Renly now has the Crownlands, Stormlands and Reach behind him. Having caught victory disease, he sends an offer to both Robb and Tywin demanding fealty or destruction by fire and sword(he isn't even interested in letting Robb call himself king-after all he is in a position where it looks like he can impose his will without such concessions).

Obviously both men refuse and the war in the Riverlands grinds to a halt-there is no Lannister-Stark alliance as Renly marches on Harrenhal-Tywin having done everything possible to prepare to defend the giant castle. Tywin and Kevan perish in the siege, with the Lannisters fighting to the last man-Tywin being too proud to surrender, even after it being offered. (Renly liked the notion of Lord Tywin kneeling humiliated before him , and so was willing to offer that). Tommen is ordered sent to the Rock, but disappears en route. He is presumed dead, though in actuality Varys' agents had killed the KG with him and captured the boy-Varys feeling that the false Baratheon child might be useful, "collected" him. (either as lord of the rock or storm's end for Aegon).

Renly's army in the Riverlands basically sucks all the food out of it, even as the BWB conducts numerous guerilla attacks on his massive host. Which by now, has suffered 40-50% losses. Only replaced in spates by Crownlands levies and knights.

Seeing the political opportunity-Robb frees Jaimie, and under threat of death demands he align with the Starks as the Lannister heir-not having much choice, swears allegiance, Jaimie does so-and is sent to rally the remaining Westermen, which are to be placed under Stark authority. Robb feeling this both subordinates and neutralizes the Lannisters, and Catelyn feeling this might give the Kingslayer a chance to redeem his honor. Even so the Westermen are battered and can contribute little. But seeing little choice the weathermen follow Jaimie into vassalage of Stark. Mostly because Renly will likely give their lands to his followers.

LF does work though in getting Lysa to back the Starks, with chaos as his modus operandi-the Vale Knights muster, and ride hard for Riverrun. Renly's forces having just invested the castle. Just as Renly manages to break through the first wall-the Vale comes catching Lord tarly by surprise and smashing the Reachmen and putting Renly to flight.

Renly flees south and licks his wounds.

Now its a struggle between the North-Vale-Riverlands-Westerlands vs the Crownlands-Reach-Stormlands, with Shireen basically a non factor, though Lord Florent does sack up and down Blackwater Bay, and forces Renly to keep a respectable garrison in KL.

Anyway regardless, Renly does manage to gain a victory at Lord Harroway's town, defeating a Vale force(though it was Randyll Tarly who pulled it off). Robb decides the Riverlands are indefensible, even with Vale support and so goes North, with the Ironborn and wildlings having overrun the north, Riverrun eventually falls, though the Blackfish and Stark men continue harassing Renly in the Riverlands. The wildlings and Ironmen though have ravaged the North and Robb seeks to reconquer it. With his core retainers. And the northmen forces available to him there.

With the Vale unable to turn the tide, and Robb focusing on reclaiming the north , Renly is triumphant. Casterly Rock and Dragonstone still hold, to be sure, but not forever. And the Vale Lords will see reason come winter.

Renly is popular with his supporters, though is seen by the Stormlords as being a puppet of his Tyrell friends as they stuff his small council full of them and their own bannermen.

Late in 300 AC, a Targaryen pretender lands in Dorne, with a marriage celebrated under the sound of elephants blowing their trunks and the sound of trumpets. Myrcella is slain by the sand snakes, (there had been some consideration of marrying her to Aegon, though that wasn’t a prospect the Dornish were too keen on). Also Margaery is still without child. As winter sets in...

Some notes-Renly’s host is so massive that he can destroy Stannis, the Lannister’s and Starks in succession
-thus Renly victorious scenarios interest me a great deal.
-Renly is likely is a fairly popular monarch, at least with the noble class, while he is not despised by the peasantry-in fact he is liked superficially, he doesn’t endear himself to them at any deep level and doesn’t really care about them. Beyond PR.
-At the end of the scenario-Renly has both Dragonstone and Casterly Rock under siege. With Jaimie stuck in the Rock trying to prevent its fall. The westermen who remain feeling obligated by oath to die with house Lannister. Though a great many have sworn vassalage to Renly.

Aegon would land in Dorne here. And marry Arianne. Renly being unaware and indifferent, doesn’t keep much an eye on the Dornish, that is until they march out of the Red Mountains.

I suspect Renly would go to meet the Targaryen pretender in the field, surrounded by all the chivalry of Westeros. But he’d face unrest, in the Reach, the Riverlands and Crownlands, and in the West. As many houses declare for Aegon.

I suspect in a battle between them-Connington would prevail. And Renly would either be captured, die, or flee. And thus the Targaryens would march towards a restoration.

Or, maybe the knights of the Reach would win-killing Aegon in the field and ending the Targaryens, until Daenerys came. And she would destroy him.
 
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Argent

Well-known member
I’d also be skeptical about an Ironborn plan to sack the Reach. They might be able to raze the shield islands and sail up the Mander, but House Hightower and the Tyrell’s will have knights at their backs in about a day-unless you believe the bulk of the Tyrell forces were at Storm’s End. Which limits how much loot they can get.

Not to mention the Hightower’s have a fleet as well. And no doubt the local Reach lords on the coast would have word to Highgarden as fast as the raven flies.

The goal is mainly to loot and burn. They are not planning on sacking the entire Reach. Instead they want to draw the blockade off Stromsend.

If even half the Redwyne fleet is called back to reinforce the Sheild Islands the Ironbron win. In canon the Reach never managed to break Stannis and Stromsend. If Stannis can supply his soldiers with even basic rations the chances of the Mace winning are pretty much nothing.

Any gold and salt wives the the Ironborn get are just a happy side effect. The true win is getting on the rebel winning side when it comes to dividing up the spoils after the Targs lose.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Idea: The Planetos is turned into an RPG-Mechanics Verse

Monsters or dangerous animals become prevalent around settlements

Pretty much everybody has a “class” or is “multiclass” due to deciding to do more than specialize

People can learn magic and other skills quick

People get diminishing returns of XP the easier a task or enemy is for em

So killing a million rats will get you 0 XP at some point, but you can easily harvest them for organ parts and things like for “alchemy” and “leather” or “food” and “farming”

Many nobility are a bunch of levels stronger than smallfolk due to training, education and more expensive equipment

Every now and then an “event” occurs to make life harder or to weed out the people

In this chaos, the song of ice and fire is doing a bunch of retuning or something
 
D

Deleted member 88

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The goal is mainly to loot and burn. They are not planning on sacking the entire Reach. Instead they want to draw the blockade off Stromsend.

If even half the Redwyne fleet is called back to reinforce the Sheild Islands the Ironbron win. In canon the Reach never managed to break Stannis and Stromsend. If Stannis can supply his soldiers with even basic rations the chances of the Mace winning are pretty much nothing.

Any gold and salt wives the the Ironborn get are just a happy side effect. The true win is getting on the rebel winning side when it comes to dividing up the spoils after the Targs lose.
Oh to be sure, they'd be richly rewarded for it.

But what is Balon's angle post war? A small council position? Theon being fostered under Stannis as part of the royal navy?
 

Ganurath

Well-known member
Oh to be sure, they'd be richly rewarded for it.

But what is Balon's angle post war? A small council position? Theon being fostered under Stannis as part of the royal navy?
Quellon, not Balon. The specific goal depends on the opportunities available. Chaos is a ladder, after all, and Petyr Baelish wouldn't be the first to climb it.
 
D

Deleted member 88

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Quellon, not Balon. The specific goal depends on the opportunities available. Chaos is a ladder, after all, and Petyr Baelish wouldn't be the first to climb it.
I keep on forgetting for some reason.

The Ironborn would profit greately from ingratiating themselves with the Baratheon regime, clearing out the stepstones, sending Theon or one of Balon's older sons to squire under Stannis, getting involved in the governance of the realm, and perhaps even eventually getting rid of Stannis-after all maybe an Ironborn can hold the master of ships title.

(Full Disclosure-the tumblr economic development of the iron islands is where I got the above paragraph from in inspiration, its generally pretty good and is so worth referencing).

Trade, ingratiation, and political ambition-the Ironborn would profit more from.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Say, how well do you think Skagosi Unicorns would do off Skagos?

Like say a Stark gets to Skagos and doesn't get attacked or eaten and somehow he decides that this "Unicorn" he got to ride once would be a better mount than many horses around and "buys" some and brings em over to Winterfell for breeding
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Given that the Deep Ones are unlikely to appear in the series proper, I want to ask, how do you guys think the Ironborn would take being expected to reenact Innsmouth would be?

As in, many are expected to take Deep Ones as spouses whether they want to or not and their population gradually becoming composed almost entirely of them

There maybe some “trade” in exchange

Unless it turns out the Deep Ones themselves REALLY believe in the Iron Price and are fanatical about skipping straight to violence to get stuff and enslaving people to do work for stuff that won’t pop up with fighting
 
D

Deleted member 88

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Crack idea before I go to bed.

At the beginning of ACOK, Tyrion and Cersei's minds are swapped. Cersei is now in Tyrion's body and Tyrion is in Cersei's body.

As usual with these sort of ideas, they have shock and then it gets into character and so on. Cersei is now hand of the king and Tyrion is the Regent until Joff comes of age.

First off, the siblings probably find out about the swap relatively quickly. Cersei likely has a total mental collapse at being in her despised brother's body. And Tyrion likely feels much the same.

How does this change things? First off, I suspect Tersei(Tyrion in Cersei) will reign Joff in, and slap him half a dozen or so times. Cyrion(Cersei in Tyrion) probably gets over the loss of her body after a while, and has to rely ironically more on her brother. LF and Varys notice the change immediately(I can see the siblings be smart enough to not tell both to not be called insane and to avoid the humiliation of the joke the gods seemed to have played).

If Cyrion doesn't recover-she remains in a drunken stupor, and may or may not commit suicide, maybe. I suspect the idea of the hedonizing worthless Imp is pretty well confirmed.

Tersei likely uses his power to do what Tyrion could not, or at least not as easily-arranging marriages, sending Myrcella to Dorne. And preparing to defend the city. Cyrion if she ever recovers, from the psychological blow that this sort of thing is(especially to someone with a large bundle of neuroses like Cersei), probably just tries to undermine her brother as much as possible. And fails terribly.

KL might fall, or it might hold out longer, in canon Tyrion spent a lot of time trying to keep his sister from undermining his work. Now he has the field mostly to himself. He likely does suffer psychological issues as well, the gender dysphoria, and the whole "I'm beautiful and not a dwarf anymore" reaction. Probably without Cersei to focus on, he can spend more time getting rid of corrupt toadies of his sister and preparing for the defense of the city. And should be able to prevent the riot. Tersei is also kinder to Sansa, apologizing for any previous bad actions and assuring that she will not marry Joffrey. Sansa is of course confused and guarded.

So the Blackwater comes-I don't know if Tersei would fight, probably? Maybe? If only to command. Assuming he has made better use of his time to prepare-Stannis will be held off longer. After that, I'd have to think about what would happen in ASOS. Tersei likely gets no credit. Cyrion however is likely treated badly by Tywin for failing in her duty. Beyond that, I would think the plot of ASOS in KL changes too much for me outline concisely.
 
D

Deleted member 88

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So here's an idea.

Tommen dies in AFFC.

Basically-the boy has an accident or an otherwise entirely non intentional death. Maybe choking on his food or a sudden illness.

Cersei is liable to go mad, feeling that Maggy's prophecy is coming due and will be lashing out for someone to blame. Probably the Tyrells, but if its relatively early(say around the time Tommen and Marge marry)-Jaimie will try to keep her in check, alongside Kevan. Probably sending her back to the rock, after she makes some foolish attempt at killing Marge and papering over the issue by saying "The Queen Mother has lost her marbles after the deaths of her two sons, please forgive her". With Kevan Lannister and Mace Tyrell ruling as basically a Diarchy in King's Landing.

Now curiously, Myrcella is queen of the Seven Kingdoms. And also a Dornish hostage.

This is before Connington and Aegon are even on Doran's radar, but now he has a golden opportunity-Myrcella is his hostage, and he has a few options. He can kill her to destabilize the Lannisters further(which he wouldn't do as the Lannisters in that case have no investment in holding the Iron Throne and can consolidate in the west). This means that Arianne doesn't need to attempt to crown her.

Question is, what do the Dornish do with their hostage? The legal Queen of Westeros? The Lannisters nor Tyrells would likely stand for the betrothal with Trystane to remain in effect. Making a Martell King Consort.

I suspect Kevan would write Doran, in very polite terms telling him to return the young queen. Which Doran would have to do or at least he couldn't delay long.

Varys now has a problem-the Tyrells and Lannisters would under Kevan and Mace be of relatively the same mind, and with Cersei out of the picture, little room to cause chaos that isn't his direct intervention. Thing is-the Tyrells will offer to marry Willas to Myrcella, which puts Kevan in a difficult position-accept and anger the Martells(who already want revenge anyway), or refuse and offend the people holding most of Westeros for them.

Thing is-Doran has to act quickly and decisively here. He can either stand by the betrothal-and say Trystane will be her consort, and dare the Lannisters to march into the red mountains to contest the matter, or let Myrcella go back to the capital, losing a piece on the board and leverage over Lannisters, or kill her, thus inflaming the Lannisters and basically giving the game away that he is out for Lannister blood.

He can't patiently wait and consider all the options, until the orange is overripened.

Tommen's death and the consolidation of power under Kevan and Mace would not immediately affect the Riverlands, much less the North or Vale.

Thus Stannis would be a non factor-the Dance aside, he isn't liked and few south of the neck would invite him back. Thing is, since the Martells have the Queen-the Iron Throne isn't a fully owned subsidiary of House Lannister. If he did get word of it-I doubt he would come south, as he intends to win the north and fight the Others.

If Doran wanted to play hardball-he could have them marry-years before they'd consummate(if ever), and dare the Lannisters to oppose it.

For Aegon-if Myrcella has a Dornish consort king, this is a problem-as the Dornish and Martells want revenge on House Lannister, but having their youngest son being the father of the queen's sons, is a good enough of a deal-revenge against House Lannister itself can be taken from there once a half Martell King reigns. Thus Martell support for Aegon might not occur. I suppose you could see a split between Aegon backers and Trystane backers.

@Ganurath thoughts on the above?
 
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Ganurath

Well-known member
If Cersei made an attempt on Margaery's life, that forgiveness would come at a cost, and Mace and Olenna would apply that leverage to get concessions out of the Lannisters. Additionally, they'd probably shoot for a match that doesn't involve allowing Myrcella's Dornish holders in Highgarden to deliver her, because Mace hates the Dornish like Robert hates dragonspawn. They'd probably arrange for an already fertile beauty to be wed to Willas, such as one of the Queen Regent's cousins on her mother's side, Cerenna or Myrielle Lannister. Myrcella, meanwhile, they'd push for a match with one of Mace's nephews by his sister that was already in King's Landing: the twins Horas and Hobber Redwyne.

At the same time, Varys is whispering in the Tyrell ears about how while uncles don't come before sons, they do come before daughters, and that Stannis would be the rightful heir ahead of Myrcella even if his accusations against Cersei are false. Unless, of course, all of Westeros is to yield to Dornish tradition, at which point I must reiterate Mace's often overlooked hatred of the Dornish. If the Lannisters lean too strongly toward the Martells after one of their number tried to murder his daughter, Mace Tyrell is likely going to have some opinions.
 
D

Deleted member 88

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What do you think Doran would do? Given he has the queen of Westeros in his power?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Idea: A younger Tyrion Lannister who may or may not have had the Tysha incident, for whatever the reason decides to be a combination of banker, accountant & merchant after deciding that he can do “better” WITHOUT family members that despise him

Let’s just say part of his motivations’ flipping the metaphorical bird at his family and trying to show that a man who uses his head can be more deadly than all the knights around the Seven Kingdoms

And prove that you can be great in-spite of physical deformities and having access to the wealth of a noble family....though he admits without education there’s not much you can do

Also, maybe to somehow better the lot of people via trade and deciding that too many people are uneducated and wanting to make a different mark on Westeros’ history

Perhaps citing the belief that many Lords & Kings haven’t done much to change/better the lot of the Smallfolk and make it so that things are more than a change of Highborn in power

This somehow brings him into a clash with Littlefinger and him being aware there is something weirdly suspicious about the Kingdom’s growing debts
 
D

Deleted member 88

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He doesn't. Selyse would be up north at the Wall at the time this would be going on. Uncles come before daughters.
Under Andal succession if I'm not mistaken? Or are you saying the Dornish would tacitly recognize Stannis?

Stannis is a traitor and rebel. The Tyrells wouldn't like it, but hasn't Stannis been removed from the line of succession anyway due to rebelling against King Joffrey?
 

Ganurath

Well-known member
Under Andal succession if I'm not mistaken? Or are you saying the Dornish would tacitly recognize Stannis?

Stannis is a traitor and rebel. The Tyrells wouldn't like it, but hasn't Stannis been removed from the line of succession anyway due to rebelling against King Joffrey?
I'm saying that the Dornish position is irrelevant, because their succession laws don't hold sway outside Dorne. Since the Iron Throne is outside Dorne, Myrcella doesn't have any legal grounds to be crowned.

In short, if Tommen dies without issue, any Lannister claim to the Iron Throne dies with him.
 
D

Deleted member 88

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I'm saying that the Dornish position is irrelevant, because their succession laws don't hold sway outside Dorne. Since the Iron Throne is outside Dorne, Myrcella doesn't have any legal grounds to be crowned.

In short, if Tommen dies without issue, any Lannister claim to the Iron Throne dies with him.
True, though I fail to see how this would be relevant in a de facto sense. Neither the Lannisters, Tyrells, or Martells(albeit for mostly different reasons) want Stannis on the iron throne. And they are south of the neck, the three houses that hold the most sway overall-the Freys being Lannister vassals, The Arryns uninvolved, and no house in the stormlands strong enough to contest either.

Let Stannis take the throne which is his by law(even if the incest were not true), and he will be executing lannisters, tyrells, and all his other enemies, real or perceived. Surely House Lannister would accept Queen Myrcella and Dornish custom over Stannis deciding their fate?
 

Ganurath

Well-known member
True, though I fail to see how this would be relevant in a de facto sense. Neither the Lannisters, Tyrells, or Martells(albeit for mostly different reasons) want Stannis on the iron throne. And they are south of the neck, the three houses that hold the most sway overall-the Freys being Lannister vassals, The Arryns uninvolved, and no house in the stormlands strong enough to contest either.

Let Stannis take the throne which is his by law(even if the incest were not true), and he will be executing lannisters, tyrells, and all his other enemies, real or perceived. Surely House Lannister would accept Queen Myrcella and Dornish custom over Stannis deciding their fate?
Two of those three were Targaryen loyalists in the last war, and they all know that there's at least one in Essos. If talk goes toward overtures toward Daenerys, Varys will whip out Faegon, and suddenly Mace and Doran will be racing to see who can throw the Lannisters under the bus faster.
 

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