IndyFront
Well-known member
I have great sympathy for the Israeli people, however that sympathy does not extend to the Israeli elite.
Israel 🇮🇱 State of Israel Thread
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TheRejectionist
TheRejectionist
Do you have actual concrete proof or you just simply affirming without evidence?
Israeli Fighter Pilots, Commandos Threaten To Resign If Judicial Reform Proceeds | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zerowww.zerohedge.com
The problem with Israel is that they never wrote down a consitution which means what you don't have clear cut rights or clear cut seperation of powers which in the long run makes governance a mess.
There was going to be a reorganization of power sooner or later.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
I personally think a lot of the dislike for Israel comes from it remembering how to look out for itself and "geopolitic" in a world built upon "The End of History." They look like arseholes because everyone else has gone soft.
Pleanty of mathmatical models are starting to show that this decade is going to have our equivelent to the crisis of the 3rd century so....yeah people are going to have no choice but to get a lot harder soon.
They're probably emboldened by Israel's internal political crisis, thinking that this is the perfect time to attack Israel on all fronts (diplomatic, economic, military) because they think it's weak right now.
Not suprised Antisemites are rats all their own.
The biggest problem with complaining about Israeli policy reasonably is that abroad Israel is being attacked from all sides and often from all ends of the political spectrum and yes often these comments are antisemitism hidden behind a thin veil of being anti-israel.
For example, one group of people who attack the Israelis state who I can for sure claim are antisemetic are those who bluster about how the state is apartheid or are otherwise repeatedly questioning/undermining the states legitimacy of existence without offering any reasonable alternative that will satisfy all parties involved.
Over 6,000,000 people in Israel or 73.6% of the population are Jewish, it's the only Jewish state of it's kind and the next largest demographic in the Arabs is 1,890,000 which amounts to 21% of it's population.
What's the answer to the "Jewish Question" for most of these people then? It's complete minority rule of arabs followed by slow or quick genocide via any number of methods because even if the Arabs gain complete and utter control from within of the state the rest of the Arab world will stand for nothing less than the states destruction and the jews expulsion.
It's okay to be critical of Israel it's another thing to not call out others who are trying to use you to dogwhistle up support for a cause you don't at all support.
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Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Stupid thing is there are Arabs serving in the Israeli Army. It might not be a "multi-cultural utopia" but it isn't the monster it gets built up to be.
Indeed, if Israel was as monstrous as many of its detractors believe, it would have stomped the Palestinians into a bloody paste years ago and not continuously sought a diplomatic solution.
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In the longer run stomping the palestinians into a bloody paste and then doing a mass explusion would have been the far kinder option. It would have ripped the bandaid off all at once and while it would have been painful by now the palastinians would have accepted their not going home and would have built themselves a new life amongst their fellow arabs.
Sometimes trying to be the good person just makes things worse all around.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Given that many Israelis are descendants of those who escaped the Final Solution or outright survived it, I can see why they were hesitant to get their hands dirty like that.
National survivial expecially in the middle east often requires people get their hands dirty, and smart money is when that generation dies off of natural causes their grandchildren who have been dealing with constant Palastinian attacks their entire lives will have their fuck it moment and then mass explusions.
By the time they do it the west will be pretty fucked up and might not give a shit because their own muslum commities will have become mini Isis hot spots giving them a quite different perspective on middle eastern culture.
It couldn't work due to an aspect of the conflict that is getting nowhere near the attention it deserves - the influence of "fellow Arabs" and their role in the grand scheme of the conflict.
There is a reason why said "fellow Arabs" are keeping the Palestinian diaspora as refugees, pushing the politics and funding in Palestine they do, did the war actions and policies they did.
Those aren't things Israel has control over, yet Arabs in general are quite clear in their... sociopolitical narrative that they care about Palestine rejoining the "Islamic world" far more than any amount of suffering, casualties or poverty befalling upon the few millions of Palestinians in Israel and other few millions elsewhere (just scratch that off as martyrdom).
One thing we can say for sure, if Arab rulers decided that they will let Palestinians freely immigrate to their countries (or even just legalize the status of the "eternal refugees"), some very populous and already hosting millions of them, so without much disruption, Israel couldn't do anything to stop them, and in fact probably would welcome it.
But they won't, because not doing so is a vital part of the pressure they are trying to inflict on Israel. If that gets Israel to back down, success, if Israel pushes upon them, then their suffering and anger is to be used to fuel the cause internally and also guilt trip naive infidels elsewhere, win-win.
It's oddly similar to Russian efforts with own minority abroad, officially in the name of protecting them, but when rubber hits the road and guns speak, such "protection" includes forming them into poorly armed and semi-trained separatist units and sending them as cannon fodder at the enemy, in the name of joining the land they live on into own orbit or state, whatever formal option is more convenient at the moment.
In conclusion, in line with the stereotypical treachery and deceitfulness of the region, no matter the smiles, paper and handshakes, the Arab world wages a continuous war against Israel since its independence, the war only changes its forms and intensity as strategic needs and opportunities dictate. Sometimes its overt, sometimes its covert, sometimes its hybrid, sometimes its a temporary ceasefire, but it's always somewhere out there.
The thing is that might just work for them.
The islamic world will have a window of oportunity to flat out conquer europe because the internal situation is so fucking god awful with an elite who is gleefully selling out their own people. If they act with in that window of time they could conquer europe they could enslave everyone there and just plain win.
But like I said its a window of time, because the west is already starting to realize who's causing their internal problems the knives are coming out and if europe isn't gone by the time a cesar figure rises then the west will have its horrific revenge. and muslums will get to find out the hard way that having bearded men force you to convert at gun point isn't as funny when it happens to you.
Unlikely. If they had their own shit in order to jump on the opportunity when it arises, it could work. But now? With what? They aren't in a shape to organize their own D-Day to support their fifth column, and are nowhere near it. By the time they could get themselves into such shape Europe may have wised up or become a place not worth conquering at all in the process.
My money is that europe and the west will have wised up and you are right.
But that window will exist because dear god the wokies just openly hate their own civilization and are currently in charge of it.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Didn't that happen the first time with the Reconquista? Although it wouldn't be a Caesar like figure that should make you guys and the Muslims worry. It's the terrifying prospect of an actual second Hitler that's worse than Hitler Prime arising and using extreme rhetoric. Come to think of it, aren't we seeing that kind of thing arising with Identity Europa?
We could get lucky like Rome though it will be a crap shoot though.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
And Rome was responsible for burning down that temple in the aftermath of the Jewish Revolts.
Europe itself may be more of a white elephant for any would be conqueror in its current condition.
We jews really did not cover ourselves in glory during that rebellion spending more time fighting each other then the outside enemy was dumb as hell.
King Arts
Well-known member
So what if groups on different sides of the political spectrum dislike Israel? I mean your arguments have no validity, I mean I can just as easily call you anti semetic because you are against the Arabs and the Palestinians. After all Jews are not the only semetic people in the world.
Again why is it wrong to claim Israel is apartheid? It specifically allows one group of people no matter where in the world to come to it's borders and become citizens. If South Africa decided to do that with whites would you take a hypocritical stance and say it's diffrent somehow?
Second why is it wrong to "question/undermine the states legitimacy of existence" Why do we all have to give Israel a special privilege and say it has a right to exist. Will you give that consideration to other nations that those on the evangelical right tend to dislike? Will you say that Cuba, Russia, China, and Iran as nations have a "right to exist"
Honestly I don't believe in rights in the first place, but making up something where a nation has a right to exist is just ridiculously silly and I don't think you understand what it means it cheapens rights to a degree far more than the liberals who want to make "muh right to not have poverty, homeless, or starvation, or disease."
Nations don't have a right to "exist" they either do or they don't. Isreal does exist however it has people that are loyal to it and willing to fight for it. I can understand a right for the people in a region for self determination to decide for themselves what their nation is or is not but not a right for a "nation" to "exist"
And? What's your point 70 percent of the nation is Jewish and it's the only nation that is Jewish. There is only one nation that is French, only one nation that is Russian, one that is Italian. The Palestinians are also a people, and if those people want independence on their land they should get it. Again you don't have to suck off everything Israel does and cheer them when they build settlements, neutral people and those who slightly lean towards the Palestinians don't cheer rocket attacks. It's possible to say both sides have done bad.
Why do I need to come up with the answer to your "Jewish Question?" Why do I have to solve peace in the middle east? Can't I just criticize Israel when they make more settlements or treat Christians badly in comparison to Jews?
Also why do I need to stop people who are "dogwhistleing" Did you become a liberal just for Israel? When we criticise BLM or other groups do we need to also say "But we are not being racist."
I'm sorry but it's ridiculous to say that just because Arabs serve in the Army there isn't oppression lot's of oppressive regimes used 2nd class citizens as soldiers even colonial nations did it.
And that second paragraph are you serious? You are basically saying the thief is not that bad because he could also have been a rapist and a murderer as well. Why don't you apply the same to south africa under apartheid. "If it was as monstrous as many say, they would have stomped the blacks into bloody paste years ago and not had any more Africans to cause trouble."