Iconoclasm Amongst Science Fiction and Fantasy Creators

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder

It's an interesting piece by a science fiction writer that talks about the ongoing trends to purge Science Fiction and Fantasy of its troublesome history and the main thrust of this article is about the obliteration of James Tiptree Jr which was the pseudonym of the writer Alice Sheldon and the namesake of the James Tiptree Award which recognizes works that explore and expand gender roles which seems pretty progressive. But now its being renamed because, well I'd prefer you read the article, but Alice Sheldon's personal history (seemingly independent of her writing or the awards criteria) is problematic. Or as the Board for which the Award is associated with states: "We value the disabled writers and readers and artists and fans who support this award. Many of them—many of you—have told us that the Award’s current name holds negative, painful, exclusionary associations. So we’re changing it.”

This was done against the general preference of many, including those who knew Alice Sheldon and biographers and other cited evidence to the contrary of the troubled feelings of these "writers, readers, artists and fans."

The article touches on other examples of iconoclasm and historical obliteration in the SF&F community such as the renaming of the John F. Campbell Award to the "Astounding Award" because it's 2019 prizewinner, Jeannette Ng decried John Campbell as a fascist white male. And of course the replacement of the bust of HP Lovecraft for the World Fantasy Award for his wrongthink in regards to things like race relations when he lived in the 1920's.

The essays last half is actually a very nice summation of the authors own thoughts on the issue and instead of rehashing them or copying or pasting them here, I do feel it'd be better to read it and bring it up for discussion here after it's been read. For me personally, it does seem to be another measure of general iconoclasm that seems generally propagated by left leaning individuals who want to give a baby and the bathwater treatment to everything before them. We've seen it in regards to history and historical monuments and the renaming of landmarks and schools and the like and now unsurprisingly it's also been happening concurrently in the world of fandom as well.
 
D

Deleted member

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I would be interested to hear what @Lesliefish thinks of this considering her involvement in fandom in the days of both Tiptree publishing and the establishment of the award...
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
Kind of reminds me of the art in Soviet Union, how artists could be venerated at one moment, then shunned by decree in the next moment, their works banned and their names consigned either to silence or derision. And we certainly don't lack Zhdanov wannabes these days.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Kind of reminds me of the art in Soviet Union, how artists could be venerated at one moment, then shunned by decree in the next moment, their works banned and their names consigned either to silence or derision. And we certainly don't lack Zhdanov wannabes these days.

Say, anyone here ever heard of Larry Correia’s Sad Puppies thing

The time he told the ScienceFiction-Fantasy Writing “Community” to fuck off instead of apologizing to them?
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
It's all part of the same cancer that got started in the atheist community with their Atheism+ bullshit. They've gone on to infect anything that remotely seems popular to them just so they can remake it in their own image.

Atheism, you know I once heard of this “Elevatorgate” thing that may have been about a divide between Far-Left-Wing Atheists and the Atheists of a more libertarian or laiz affaire capitalism sort
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Also the start of rape accusation witch hunt. So the real divide was between people who believe in quaint things like proof and due process, and the crowd that thinks all women are virtuous angels who never like, ever, and must always be believed.

I personally belive that the later exist because of single child house holds.

My sisters for all the bullshit they put me through taught me that women were people. That they were not angels, goddess, devils or anything different but people and that meant that some times they were right assholes, some times they lied and some times they couldn't be trusted. And vice versa.

Only children often times have to learn these things the hard way.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
These people are now claiming that "There Ain't No So Thing As A Free Lunch" is a "Fascist slogan", apparently. Nice to know that the very laws of thermodynamics offend them.

Where's this latest wild claim coming from?

But there is such a thing as a free lunch; I help hand them out to the homeless at a local church every Monday.

You and I both know that isn't true. The ingredients cost money, and your time is also valuable and prevents you from doing something else, the same with all the other volunteers. That lunch was an imposition on someone--it's just an imposition everyone involved agreed to because of their moral principles. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't invalidate TANSTAAFL.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
You and I both know that isn't true. The ingredients cost money, and your time is also valuable and prevents you from doing something else, the same with all the other volunteers. That lunch was an imposition on someone--it's just an imposition everyone involved agreed to because of their moral principles. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't invalidate TANSTAAFL.
Of course; I just felt like being pedantic. Then again, if the ingredients were destined for the garbage otherwise, and my time is basically worthless (which, considering how much of it I waste, it is), is it really that much of an imposition? Something to think about.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
These people are now claiming that "There Ain't No So Thing As A Free Lunch" is a "Fascist slogan", apparently. Nice to know that the very laws of thermodynamics offend them.

Capitalism, especially Free Market Unregulated Capitalism, is something that’s been associated with Fascism or Far Right by guys making fiction long before SJWism took over

The way I see it, Socialism/Communism operates through sheer Romanticism and Idealism and a constant SHUT UP to the economists pointing out both shortterm and longterm problems
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
But there is such a thing as a free lunch; I help hand them out to the homeless at a local church every Monday.

As everyone else has said, that is not a free lunch. Someone has had to pay for the food, and volunteers have had to invest their time to get it to them. And time itself can be seen to be the most valuable "commodity" there "exists" to be had. There is only so much of it, and when it is spent, it is spent. So even if something doesn't "cost" anything, it is still not free due to the fact that time had to be invested into it.
 

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