Russian Invasion of Ukraine 2022

[Zachowon]

Apperently Ukrainians love the range and accuracy so I doubt the barrels are junk ones

 

[Marduk]

I wonder if the praise of accuracy of Challanger cannon may be due to fact of being new/freshly refurbished. Whereas Ukranian barrels already have fired hundreds? thousands of shot and/shells and are in need of replacement (relining?)?

Challenger's 120mm is different from all other current MBT's 120's. It's rifled.

 

[paulobrito]

 

[Husky_Khan]

First Documented Loss of a British Supplied Challenger 2 near Robotnye where the CounterOffensive Actions have been taking place. It seems like only a couple posts ago when I posted a Tweet from the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense about them being in combat service. It was likely due to indirect fire.



Video also shows a damaged T-64BV and two lighter military vehicles in vicinity as well.



Russian three gun 122mm D-30 Artillery Battery Targeted and Struck by Ukrainian DPICM Artillery in Eastern Ukraine.



Privately Sourced (Civilian) UH-60A Helicopter in service of the Ukrainian GUR for training purposes.



Russian Air Defense Around Moscow Utilizing Tracked Pantsir Air Defense Systems With Arctic Camo.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Germany is delivering Ukraine Gepard 35mm SPAAG ammunition from the new production line they had just set up for that particular ammunition type.



The German Company Mercedes-Benz is sending Ukraine 100+ of their new Zetros Ultra-Capable Off Road Trucks.



Ukrainian GMLRS Strike Hits a Russian Logistics Hub In the Donetsk Oblast with three Supply Trucks and a Scooby Doo UAZ Van Destroyed.



A Ukrainian Pensioner named Vadym Vasylevskyi was arrested on allegations of being an FSB Agent who was collaborating with them in setting up GPS Beacons to aid the Russian Armed Forces in striking targets in Ukraine.



The Oryx List Has Reached 12,000 Russian Pieces of Heavy Equipment Lost since the beginning of the Special Military Operation.

 

[Marduk]

Ukrainian comments on NATO training in hindsight.
TL;DR it was useful in recon, navigation, infantry tactics. Lack of static defense, EOD, drone warfare training, also not enough focus on night driving.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Ukrainian comments on NATO training in hindsight.
TL;DR it was useful in recon, navigation, infantry tactics. Lack of static defense, EOD, drone warfare training, also not enough focus on night driving.

Fascinating resource, thanks for posting. There was one thing that stood out to me as particularly surprising; perhaps someone more in tune with military matters like @Zachowon could at least have a guess?

Lack of drone training could have a number of plausible causes, from politics to NATO training not having caught up to what is apparently the new reality of warfare. Lack of defensive training could plausibly be attributed to a misunderstanding of what the troops would need most from an abbreviated training period. However, lack of EOD seems nonsensical given that they were meant to be sent into an artillery-centered war in the world's biggest minefield, and I can't imagine what sort of politics would argue against such training.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Apparently Ukraine is up to action movie shit again:

Putin's general blown up by 'exploding phone' in assassination attempt

A RUSSIAN general was seriously wounded after being given an ‘exploding phone’ by Ukraine’s secret service. Yuri Afanasevskii, 64, is injured in hospital as is his son following t…

www.thesun.co.uk

Sounds like something the CIA would do. I am literally, it reminds me of the time the CIA tried to kill Castro (the Elder) with an exploding cigar. Given the antics that the Ukrainians are up to, I expect that they might try some more CIA Looney Tunes antics soon.

 

[Marduk]

Fascinating resource, thanks for posting. There was one thing that stood out to me as particularly surprising; perhaps someone more in tune with military matters like @Zachowon could at least have a guess?

Lack of drone training could have a number of plausible causes, from politics to NATO training not having caught up to what is apparently the new reality of warfare. Lack of defensive training could plausibly be attributed to a misunderstanding of what the troops would need most from an abbreviated training period. However, lack of EOD seems nonsensical given that they were meant to be sent into an artillery-centered war in the world's biggest minefield, and I can't imagine what sort of politics would argue against such training.

It would depend on which specific NATO country this training happened in, but some are mountains of bureaucracy away from giving proper consideration to the whole mass drone warfare game themselves.
Also would not be surprised if, considering how many NATO countries are in the mine ban treaty, that's something left chiefly for specialist combat engineer units to deal with, while time and own training limited the line unit trainers from teaching much regarding that.

 

[strunkenwhite]

would not be surprised if, considering how many NATO countries are in the mine ban treaty, that's something left chiefly for specialist combat engineer units to deal with, while time and own training limited the line unit trainers from teaching much regarding that.

Yeah, that's believable. On the one hand, just because you've banned land mines doesn't mean the guy you're fighting has; on the other hand, if your institutional memory is of an organization that didn't expect to fight any serious war other than the Big One and that one on the defensive (in your own non-mined territory) I can see it as a blind spot that the bureaucracy failed to identify.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

However, lack of EOD seems nonsensical given that they were meant to be sent into an artillery-centered war in the world's biggest minefield, and I can't imagine what sort of politics would argue against such training.

I received loads of mine-detection and avoidance training while I was in the Army 20 years ago. It certainly wasn't on the level of EOD though. For the average grunt it's all about detection and avoidance. If you need a lane cleared you call EOD, the combat engineers (with their MCLICs and other tools) or just your friendly artillery to 'aggressively clear' terrain.

 

[Zachowon]

Fascinating resource, thanks for posting. There was one thing that stood out to me as particularly surprising; perhaps someone more in tune with military matters like @Zachowon could at least have a guess?

Lack of drone training could have a number of plausible causes, from politics to NATO training not having caught up to what is apparently the new reality of warfare. Lack of defensive training could plausibly be attributed to a misunderstanding of what the troops would need most from an abbreviated training period. However, lack of EOD seems nonsensical given that they were meant to be sent into an artillery-centered war in the world's biggest minefield, and I can't imagine what sort of politics would argue against such training.

Drone is understandable from the aspect of conventional forces especially US and NATO. SF is more specialized in that regard so they would be the better ones to train that, which I think have been training Ukrainian SF which shows.
Defensive training, the US doesn't know what defense is! Best defense is offense! Jokes aside, we train to be on the offense except in Korea. So maybe if they went and got NATO training from this in that AO it would make more defensive training. NATO countries in the Baltics would be better for defensive then most Western nations. EOD probably just because of how long it can take in the US for instance, and the hurriedly pase they train the Ukrainians at.
We have mostly specofic MOS to deal with that stuff so.
easy fix would have joint NATO training groups instead of country by country.
That way more standardized training

I received loads of mine-detection and avoidance training while I was in the Army 20 years ago. It certainly wasn't on the level of EOD though. For the average grunt it's all about detection and avoidance. If you need a lane cleared you call EOD, the combat engineers (with their MCLICs and other tools) or just your friendly artillery to 'aggressively clear' terrain.

I have yet to get any myself but diffrent environment.
And diffrent job then yours, plagerist! Lol

 

[strunkenwhite]

I received loads of mine-detection and avoidance training while I was in the Army 20 years ago. It certainly wasn't on the level of EOD though. For the average grunt it's all about detection and avoidance. If you need a lane cleared you call EOD, the combat engineers (with their MCLICs and other tools) or just your friendly artillery to 'aggressively clear' terrain.

Fair enough; do you think the guy in the interview was being loose with words or actually sore about not getting for-real EOD training?

Obviously you have no way of knowing, just looking for a wild guess from the gut.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Fair enough; do you think the guy in the interview was being loose with words or actually sore about not getting for-real EOD training?

Obviously you have no way of knowing, just looking for a wild guess from the gut.

It's hard to say what he's looking for specifically. EOD would completely safe an area if given enough time. Key word is time.

I imagine it's really difficult for the Ukrainian forces to provide enough cover over a long enough period of time to allow that to happen.

My guess is that what they really need are the quick and dirty methods of mine removal. That's pretty much just detonate in place. Problem with this...it's not gonna catch all the mines all the time.

I'm betting the Ukrianian line 'engineers' are going to become some of the best Combat Engineers on the planet...assuming they live long enough to learn. The hardest trick is then passing that knowledge on so it's institutionalized.

 

[gral]

It's hard to say what he's looking for specifically. EOD would completely safe an area if given enough time. Key word is time.

I imagine it's really difficult for the Ukrainian forces to provide enough cover over a long enough period of time to allow that to happen.

My guess is that what they really need are the quick and dirty methods of mine removal. That's pretty much just detonate in place. Problem with this...it's not gonna catch all the mines all the time.

I'm betting the Ukrianian line 'engineers' are going to become some of the best Combat Engineers on the planet...assuming they live long enough to learn. The hardest trick is then passing that knowledge on so it's institutionalized.

About mine disposal, I recall a comment, way before the current war(I think it was around 2017-8), that the Ukrainians were horrified by the EOD doctrine NATO instructors were teaching them. NATO doctrine, shaped by Iraq and Afghanistan experience, was to slowly and methodically clear a path(or zone).

Ukrainian experience was the Separatists and Russians usually had artillery zeroed in the mining field, waiting for the advancing unit to slow down to clear it. If the Ukrainians did what their instructors were teaching them, they would die - they would have less casualties from speeding up through the field than if they stopped and cleared it.

 

[Zachowon]

About mine disposal, I recall a comment, way before the current war(I think it was around 2017-8), that the Ukrainians were horrified by the EOD doctrine NATO instructors were teaching them. NATO doctrine, shaped by Iraq and Afghanistan experience, was to slowly and methodically clear a path(or zone).

Ukrainian experience was the Separatists and Russians usually had artillery zeroed in the mining field, waiting for the advancing unit to slow down to clear it. If the Ukrainians did what their instructors were teaching them, they would die - they would have less casualties from speeding up through the field than if they stopped and cleared it.

The US did both.
We trained to clear in LSCO, a breach as they say.
That's what MCLICS are for.

 

[Marduk]

About mine disposal, I recall a comment, way before the current war(I think it was around 2017-8), that the Ukrainians were horrified by the EOD doctrine NATO instructors were teaching them. NATO doctrine, shaped by Iraq and Afghanistan experience, was to slowly and methodically clear a path(or zone).

Ukrainian experience was the Separatists and Russians usually had artillery zeroed in the mining field, waiting for the advancing unit to slow down to clear it. If the Ukrainians did what their instructors were teaching them, they would die - they would have less casualties from speeding up through the field than if they stopped and cleared it.

It does add up. Most of NATO mineclearing experience is in peacetime or COIN environment.
Ukrainians are interested in frontline mineclearing first and foremost now.

 

[willdelve4beer]

Did we stop making/buying line-charges after Iraq round 1? B/c back in the days of yore, when uncle sam's misguided children rode dinosaurs into battle alongside cowboys and jousting-tourney armored knights, we mounted those on Bradleys and could clear a path through a minefield in less than a minute.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

that the Ukrainians were horrified by the EOD doctrine NATO instructors were teaching them.

It that's what the course entailed then it was a failure of the School's design not catering to the actual needs of a wide ranging battlefield.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Updated Spreadsheet on Documented Losses of Ukrainian and Russian Equipment during the Zaporizhzhia Counteroffensive.



A Third Russian T-90M Main Battle Tank Was Captured by Ukrainian Forces near Robotnye



The first Leopard 1 Main Battle Tanks are arriving in Ukraine.



Abrams Deployment to Ukraine still waiting on more training, especially regarding maintenance and repair, for Ukrainian troops.



The tire spaced armor defense is spreading to smaller Russian aircraft.