But not on thw way Aaron is talking about.
The US doctrine is going with a dedicated anti drone SHORAD that can work as well as normal SHORAD.
It has a laser
Tanks and other Armoured Vehicles Image thread.
- Thread starter Duke Nukem
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The US doctrine is going with a dedicated anti drone SHORAD that can work as well as normal SHORAD.
It has a laser
Yup, though I wouldn't be surprised to see something like the Avenger come back to assist in dealing with drone swarms. Especially for front-line defense.
It is still in use and definitely seems useful in modern terms
Doomsought
Well-known member
SPAAGs will always be viable against helicopters due to their flight profile. While they won't be a threat against most modern fighters in ideal conditions, conditions are not always ideal and they will get a surprising number of fighter kills in a real war.
Not if they use stand-off range missiles like Hellfire Longbow or Spike NLOS.
If anything is going to bring them back it's masses of cheap drones. Those generally can't carry long ranged weapons like that.
BF110C4
Well-known member
Also massed missile strikes against soft targets, like Russia has been doing against civilian infrastructure, but also against local supply depots and other targets that are not important enough for a theatre defense system or that are vulnerable to sudden strikes such as airports or bridges and would make desirable the ability to self-defend against light and medium armor In that sense a multipurpose system that combines a medium AA gun like a 30mm gun, some medium range SAMs which can be used as emergency ATGMs would have an use to minimize the size of an effective garrison against multiple possible threats.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
Yep. MOAR DAKKA is likely going to be the optimal answer to drones, as well as drone-mounted weaponry.
Or killer drones to ram enemy drones.
Possible, but less than optimal. After all interceptions are not easy, and imply the interceptor drone being faster and more agile than the target, and with those capabilities come component costs. That doesn't look good for the economics of doing that. Fast launching many of such in time would also be an issue.
Meanwhile an autocannon burst costs few hundred dollars worth of ammo, and the vehicle doing it can do other stuff too.
Unless they can cheapy manufacture drones which are basically just engines, a thin body, a small explosive package, and sensor suite.
Drones are surprisingly fragile, even Hellfires -- you know, I'd fucking laugh if retrofitted civilian models running on a Pi or something are used to take down military drones.
Given the timeline we're in, it wouldn't surprise me.
With good engines and battery, you get out of the territory of cheap drones. If you want nice sensors, that's a wallet killer, that's how you get US drones that cost as much as older tactical jets.Unless they can cheapy manufacture drones which are basically just engines, a thin body, a small explosive package, and sensor suite.
Drones are surprisingly fragile, even Hellfires -- you know, I'd fucking laugh if retrofitted civilian models running on a Pi or something are used to take down military drones.
Given the timeline we're in, it wouldn't surprise me.
So a third-party control system would work best than more sophisticated sensors on the drones themselves?
Yup. For something with such low survival chances, you don't want to stick a fortune in sensors on it. Many cheap drone models have their price multiplied many times by putting a thermal camera on them.
Aldarion
Neoreactionary Monarchist
For a drone killer, you want to have as few systems onboard as possible.
In short, you want a missile, not a drone. Or else a reusable drone - maybe something carrying autocannon.
Recommend something with a shotgun...maybe a .410 so the recoil isn't so bad.
Aaron Fox
Well-known member
Please note that low-caliber autocannon AAGs have been able to defend against a multitude of air threats since the 1990s. Let me repeat that: the defense capability of low-caliber AAGs to the point they can defeat multiple threats is literally three decades old (give or take a year or two).
Hell, anything better than LLTVs and easily jammable GPS would increase the price tag in exponential notation. If I learned anything from using GURPS as a vehicle designer, it's that silicon (i.e., computers and programs) and sensors are some of the costliest things you can put on anything outside of missiles with effective sensors.
That though assumes the AA vehicle is the target: if the vehicle is not, AAA dramatically increases the danger of deep strikes into the back lines. Which can then reduce a lot of a helicopters potential utility and limit them more to tactical artillery support on the direct front line.
No, that assumes the SHORAD vehicles are capable of firing on the move or quickly set up, and as such hang out very close to the tanks, Cold War style.
If those (or truck\man portable equivalents like in Ukraine) are sufficiently present and effective on the frontline, classic attack helicopters are either going to take massive attrition like Ka-52 or limit themselves to being weaker, overpriced flying Grad launchers like they and Su-25 are mostly doing in Ukraine.
Doomsought
Well-known member
Its important to remember that LOS works both ways, so if you want to take out a SPAAG you need a spotter. Its not insurmountable, but it is something you have to work at. The types of auto-cannons SPAAGs use a highly versatile, and are infamous for how they can be used against infantry, one of your primary types of spotters. Light AA guns such as quad BMGs have been used in anti-sniper operations due to their ability to mulch anything unarmored in a general location.