"TradWives" Triggering Unhappy Feminists

[LordsFire]

And vastly over estimating people's abilities to "determine the good ones"

So improve the ability until it is good enough.

 

[King Arts]

So improve the ability until it is good enough.

Or just date non western chicks. Eastern European, Asians, some Latinas, and Arabs if you are able to do so.

 

[Simonbob]

So improve the ability until it is good enough.

I spent years trying.


I'm not capable of it. Many guys aren't. I don't know why, but after a certain point, it's just a fact.

There's no point on me trying, so I don't. If every time you try, over literal decades, you get either nothing or hurt, you give up.


There's a reason why I describe my dating history as made of pain and insanity.

 

[Jormungandr]

After reading the conversation from the sidelines, I have to say this and I'll be blunt: @LordsFire I honestly think you're incredibly optimistic to the point of being completely naive and in denial, and that optimism is going to seriously bite you in the ass one day.

The state of Western women, dating, and marriage is as bad as the others have said; simply "going to Church to find a good woman" doesn't always work anymore because desperate women, especially those in their thirties, are basically now using this as a tactic to find a provider husband to settle down with.

When you see a "good Church girl", you've basically got a fifty-fifty shot of her basically being an ex-carousel rider blending in or "finding God and being a born again virgin" after being a whore in her teens and twenties, than an ideal woman like you've described.

You need to wake up dude, for your own sake.

 

[Culsu]

After reading the conversation from the sidelines, I have to say this and I'll be blunt: @LordsFire I honestly think you're incredibly optimistic to the point of being completely naive and in denial, and that optimism is going to seriously bite you in the ass one day.

The state of Western women, dating, and marriage is as bad as the others have said; simply "going to Church to find a good woman" doesn't always work anymore because desperate women, especially those in their thirties, are basically now using this as a tactic to find a provider husband to settle down with.

When you see a "good Church girl", you've basically got a fifty-fifty shot of her basically being an ex-carousel rider blending in or "finding God and being a born again virgin" after being a whore in her teens and twenties, than an ideal woman like you've described.

You need to wake up dude, for your own sake.

The born again virgins are probably the worst. Because I guarantee you they did all the hot and freaky shit before and now that they're looking for some rando stable provider it'll be missionary once every two weeks. Reddit (as unreliable as it is) is full of horror stories where the guy finds out his frigid wife was everything but before him.

 

[Jormungandr]

The born again virgins are probably the worst. Because I guarantee you they did all the hot and freaky shit before and now that they're looking for some rando stable provider it'll be missionary once every two weeks. Reddit (as unreliable as it is) is full of horror stories where the guy finds out his frigid wife was everything but before him.

YouTube, too.

SSM has so many goddamn stories where a guy marries a girl or is engaged/to dating her, and they even have regular, "vanilla" sex... and then he finds out not only was she basically an unpaid porn star in college, she's not willing to do anything like that with him (even "normal" stuff between couples, like oral).

Yeah, it never ends well for the women involved, and they typically end up being single again in very short order.

 

[Culsu]

YouTube, too.

SSM has so many goddamn stories where a guy marries a girl or is engaged/to dating her, and they even have regular, "vanilla" sex... and then he finds out not only was she basically an unpaid porn star in college, she's not willing to do anything like that with him (even "normal" stuff between couples, like oral).

Yeah, it never ends well for the women involved, and they typically end up being single again in very short order.

Well, to be fair, SSM takes like 90% of his stuff from Reddit...

 

[Jormungandr]

Well, to be fair, SSM takes like 90% of his stuff from Reddit...

That's true.

 

[Scottty]

After reading the conversation from the sidelines, I have to say this and I'll be blunt: @LordsFire I honestly think you're incredibly optimistic to the point of being completely naive and in denial, and that optimism is going to seriously bite you in the ass one day.

The state of Western women, dating, and marriage is as bad as the others have said; simply "going to Church to find a good woman" doesn't always work anymore because desperate women, especially those in their thirties, are basically now using this as a tactic to find a provider husband to settle down with.

When you see a "good Church girl", you've basically got a fifty-fifty shot of her basically being an ex-carousel rider blending in or "finding God and being a born again virgin" after being a whore in her teens and twenties, than an ideal woman like you've described.

You need to wake up dude, for your own sake.

From what I read here, LordsFire is not himself seeking a wife in today's world, he's from an older generation where the problems were not as extreme, and he's already happily married.

And he's cheerfully encouraging you to all run through the minefield. After all, only some of you will get blown to bits.

 

[Simonbob]

From what I read here, LordsFire is not himself seeking a wife in today's world, he's from an older generation where the problems were not as extreme, and he's already happily married.

And he's cheerfully encouraging you to all run through the minefield. After all, only some of you will get blown to bits.

It did work for him.

He worked at it, never gave up, and found what he wanted.


Good for him.



Let's hope it works, for the rest of your live, Lordsfire.

 

[Jormungandr]

From what I read here, LordsFire is not himself seeking a wife in today's world, he's from an older generation where the problems were not as extreme, and he's already happily married.

And he's cheerfully encouraging you to all run through the minefield. After all, only some most of you will get blown to bits.

Fixed that for ya.

But yeah, that makes sense. I'm happy that it all worked out for him, and I sincerely hope it'll continue, too. But the thing is he seems to think that what he experienced in the past is the norm, especially in this day and age. That's hopelessly naive.

A lot of the older generations are getting rude shocks when their wives or girlfriends, ones that they've been with for decades, either divorces them, gets basically contaminated by modern feminist ideals (especially by other women in a workplace), or sadly dies and they try to dip back into the now incredibly toxic dating pool.

Being aware of all this is a necessity in this day and age, and he's discounting all of it because of his own lucky experiences. The world isn't as he believes it to be, and saying anything against his view has you labeled as being blackpilled or something. shrug

 

[LordsFire]

Is 'Millennial' really considered 'older generation' at this point?

Either way, I'm not going to argue with a whole thread of people at once. I burned far too much time on this thread yesterday, instead of getting work done, I'm not going to do it again today.

I'll end with this last thought:

One of (but certainly not the only) reasons people tend to have a hard time discerning lies/untrustworthiness in others, is because they're not being honest with themselves, and that warps their ability to discern truth anywhere. If you're telling yourself lies, you're more likely to fall for lies others tell you.

In my experience, that's the single largest reason people have a hard time judging others characters.


...The second largest is 'being autistic' though, which can be almost as hard to work around in that regard, and certainly is not a given individual's fault.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

Is 'Millennial' really considered 'older generation' at this point?

Yes.

Zoomers are out there in the world for a few years now establishing themselves, and Alpha's oldest are solidly in high school.

The oldest Millennials are almost to the half century hump. Millennials are one of the older crowds now, yes.

 

[DarthOne]

Why Gen Z Is Ditching The Girlboss For The Tradwife

Why Gen Z Is Ditching The Girlboss For The Tradwife

For women who have observed the unhappy zero-sum battle of the sexes, many feel that the modern world, for all its promises, has failed them.

thefederalist.com

For women who have observed the unhappy zero-sum battle of the sexes, many feel that the modern world, for all its promises, has failed them.

Hannah Neeleman, a Utah-based cattle farmer and mother of eight, is perhaps the most popular Instagram "tradwife" — a growing category of social media influencers who reject the not-so-traditional 9-to-5 workforce in favor of homeschooling their children, homemaking, or running a family business. Though her content is entirely wholesome, she (and other tradwife accounts) are not without controversy.

In the case of Ballerina Farm, followers recently uncovered that Daniel Neeleman, Hannah's husband, is the son of the founder and former CEO of JetBlue, whose estimated net worth is $400 million.

Her kitchen stove, prominently featured in many of Hannah's videos where she bakes sourdough bread, farm-raised beef, and other dishes, costs a minimum of $20,000. For those who laud their simple lifestyle as cattle farmers, many felt blindsided by the wealth enabling their smooth transition to homesteading. Afterall, starting a farm requires many high-cost purchases on the front end from the land, equipment, and animals, forcing many farmers into perpetual debt.



Yet Hannah and other tradwife accounts will easily maintain their prominence going into 2024. For many women, who increasingly report "persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness" and disillusionment with the "girlboss" lifestyle, these influencers offer an idyllic alternative to urban life. They are illuminating a deeper hunger among women, especially among Generation Z.

A quick search on Google Trends shows that the term "tradwife" gained popularity in 2018 but peaked in 2020 as the pandemic accelerated women's return to the home. Instead of being confined to religious or ultra-wealthy women, the tradwife movement entered mainstream discussions. It offered women the chance to reclaim the ingredients of happiness — faith, family, community, and meaningful work — back from the career-focused model they grew up with.

Popular online accounts (explored here and here) tend to show women who don the clothes and lifestyle that they perceive women in a previous era embodied: shirtwaist dresses, aprons, a rejection of formal work outside the home, and a heavy emphasis on homemaking and care for children.

Instead of finding the home stuffy, boring, or trivial, many women found greater purpose and satisfaction than they previously imagined. Initially, the pandemic gave women the ultimate "permission slip" to explore the domestic realm (stay inside to stay alive). Later, popular and aesthetically pleasing tradwife accounts gave women the encouragement they needed to combat the outspoken expectations that all women, even mothers, ought to rejoin the 9-to-5 workforce.

It's worth considering why Gen Z women, who have the most professional opportunities and fewest barriers to education, work, and politics, would flock in large numbers to tradwife influencers. No doubt the online accounts are more intense in their expressions of femininity, homemaking, or anti-feminist sentiment than the average follower, but then, this is always the case with influencers.

For Gen Z women who have observed the unhappy zero-sum game that is the battle of the sexes, many feel that the modern world, for all its promises, has failed them. They're looking for an older, and truer, model for how to live a good life. Or, as Carmel Richardson said, "There are too many elders who give bad advice about marriage and family. I am trying to become the matriarch I want to see in the world."

Similarly, it's worth asking why this movement provokes many others to mockery or disgust. As one influencer said, "What if their husband leaves them? Then how will they support themselves?" For women who grew up observing the impact of no-fault divorce, family breakdown, the sexual revolution, and the rigid careerism of the 1990s, it seems as though their plan for survival is to depend on no one, especially a man, to provide for them.

​

The exhaustion and subsequent disenchantment this has produced in Gen Z is enough to spark a counterrevolution.

The harm is not borne equally, either. As both Aaron Renn and Mary Harrington have pointed out, the current workforce has meant that for elite or upper-class women to work, they require other women, who would rather stay home with their own children, to serve as nannies and daycare workers just to make ends meet. Many tradwife accounts encourage women, insofar as they can, to return to their own homes and release poorer women from the expectation of handling their child care, cooking, or cleaning.

Notably, a Refinery29 article recognized this appeal for minority women: "Traditional marriage is the key to Black women's liberation from being overworked, economic insecurity, and the stress of trying to survive in a world hostile to our survival and existence." Implicit in the tradwife model, of course, is the financial and ideological support of a husband. It requires husband and wife to work together in distinct roles toward a shared vision — one that ideally allows each the margin to flourish in their given space. In this way, tradwives represent a sort of anti-fragility that, in the words of Nassim Nicholas Taleb, is not merely resilient in the face of difficulty, but grows stronger because of it.

At their best, tradwives require more of the men around them. Rather than trying to replace the men in their lives (father, husband, perhaps employer) when they fail, such tradwives hold them accountable to provide, protect, and grow within the family. Few things could sound scarier to a woman who has been failed by a man she thought she could trust through divorce, unfaithfulness, or abandonment. Nonetheless, many women are realizing that the happiness they desire requires reliance upon a husband and other family members to succeed.

Whether it's a corporate girlie, an academic, or a tradwife, each dreams of and relies upon a wealthy patron to support the lifestyle she wants to live. While some tradwives denounce all work "outside the home," many run small businesses, write or blog, and contrary to the Luddite stereotype, manage savvy social media influencer accounts. They take the time and flexibility that their lifestyle offers and seek creative uses of their time that bless their family, their community, and the causes they care about.

Certainly, some aspects of the tradwife movement range from alt-right pagan beliefs to unrealistic forms of live-action role-play. At the heart of it, however, is a positive attempt by many women to embrace marriage and motherhood.

Countercultural movements tend to overcorrect to provide the next generation of women with a moderate option between the two ideological extremes of careerism and the rejection of all "paid work." For Gen Z, the result may be that women receive the flexibility and support to pursue a family and work amenable to their goals and the demands of each season.

 

[Ixian]

I'll admit, I remain thoroughly unconvinced by the majority of "trad" wives. Am I really expected to believe that all those women who grew up immersed in a culture where misandry is not only acceptable, but often encouraged, have suddenly seen the light as they approach their 30s?

It seems more likely to me that this is just a trendy new way for the majority of them to pull the "I had my fun in my 20s and burnt out my ability to pair bond, so now I just need a nice stable man to pay for everything and support me" trick they have been pulling for the last 20 years.

 

[DarthOne]

I'll admit, I remain thoroughly unconvinced by the majority of "trad" wives. Am I really expected to believe that all those women who grew up immersed in a culture where misandry is not only acceptable, but often encouraged, have suddenly seen the light as they approach their 30s?

It seems more likely to me that this is just a trendy new way for the majority of them to pull the "I had my fun in my 20s and burnt out my ability to pair bond, so now I just need a nice stable man to pay for everything and support me" trick they have been pulling for the last 20 years.

I won't rule it out. But who knows, it might circle back around to being real as modern society continues to crumble.

 

[Terthna]

Is 'Millennial' really considered 'older generation' at this point?

Well I certainly feel old at 39.

...The second largest is 'being autistic' though, which can be almost as hard to work around in that regard, and certainly is not a given individual's fault.

That's why I never dated.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I'll admit, I remain thoroughly unconvinced by the majority of "trad" wives. Am I really expected to believe that all those women who grew up immersed in a culture where misandry is not only acceptable, but often encouraged, have suddenly seen the light as they approach their 30s?

It seems more likely to me that this is just a trendy new way for the majority of them to pull the "I had my fun in my 20s and burnt out my ability to pair bond, so now I just need a nice stable man to pay for everything and support me" trick they have been pulling for the last 20 years.

It's possible that this is all fake but to be frank, I would have said the same thing about California flight and other things. I never dreamed I'd see the day when people in their late 20s and early 30s were leaving the US entirely and finding more fulling lives living in the middle of nowhere in the islands of Ireland and Scottland. These are strange times we live in.

 

[Jormungandr]

Well I certainly feel old at 39.


That's why I never dated.

Yep: I'm a Millennial, born in '88, and I'm 36 this year. We are the old generation now.

sigh I remember being a teen back in the early 00's, and how new and exciting things were. I remember goofing around with my friends on our bikes; I remember fucking around with Flash games on Miniclip when I was supposed to be doing school work, lol.

Damn, time flies.

 

[colorles]

While these social media influences are obviously grifters, i will say that there might already be the begging stages of a self removal from technological over immersion. social media is addicting by design being a profitable business model, and is literally causing kids to kill themselves. everyone is affected but the particularly group most affect is girls girls between the the ages of 10-14; that is the age group where suicides is increasing the fastest. some blond Russian 14 year old girl shot up her school and blew her brains out with a shot gun recently; really makes you think because a blond teen girl isn't the demographic you usually think of shooting up schools and killing themselves but girls are dis proportionally affected by these additive by design algorithms that are profiting off of turning them into miserable zombies. kids are at younger and younger ages becoming straight up addicted to these devices...and the interesting thing is, more and more or them are starting to realize it. not anywhere near the majority yet, but more and more and they are weening themselves off the addiction and going forward with their lives. some of them end up dead before that but i've seen some go forward with their lives. fuck these social media companies you are profiting off of the addictions and misery of children

stepping away from social media is the first step towards building better lives. not saying a person can't go on a forum a few nights a week, AT HOME on his home computer. but having a functional and fulfilling day and then getting home in the evening to go on a forum or two...is alot different than having a smart phone on your person that you are addicted to for every waking moment of the day and night for that matter because people are getting less and less sleep because of the addictions of these damn devices