Trump Investigations Thread

[Zachowon]

That's not how this works. There's a bunch of issues with this, but the most obvious example is this: given Trump's being tried by a state DA in a state court, it's a state crime.

Except they have no evidence it was intentional. Zero.

Also, there's an exception to double jeopardy that might be relevant here called dual sovereignty doctrine. Basically, you can get prosecuted twice for the same time, once federally, and once by the state. The federal stuff for this crime? Handled by the statute of limitations. But the state stuff is still open.

The state stuff last I checked is also out due to statue of limitations...
And yep, two years for misdemeanor and five for felony.

It destroys logical arguments that the jury would consider. Unfortunately, a biased jury can still convict. There's little avenue for a legal challenge by Trump.

Eh he can easily appeal based upon biased jury. Or even a biased judge that caused the biased jury.
It can easily be appealed.
Just depends om who gets it upon appeal

 

[Typhonis]

If the political farce of a kangeroo court this judge and DA are running convict Trump using this farce of a case, they hand Trump a weapon and also show why no sane business will ever headquarter in NY State going forward.

I would not be surprised if several companies were already looking to get out of NYC just because of this even if Trump wins. The optics are not very good.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Sixth Amendment then, right to an impartial jury.

The recourse for this is President Trump, from prison orders his new AG to arrest Alvin Bragg and Jaun Merchan and his daughter then invite anti establishment streamers to the arrests so they can stream it and ruthlessly mock them as it happens. Then place them in gen pop and make sure rumors about them being affiliated with Epstein ger circulated.

Then continue to do that shit to as much of the state government of NYC as possible until the governor caves and pardons him.

Tit for tat.

 

[49ersfootball]

The recourse for this is President Trump, from prison orders his new AG to arrest Alvin Bragg and Jaun Merchan and his daughter then invite anti establishment streamers to the arrests so they can stream it and ruthlessly mock them as it happens. Then place them in gen pop and make sure rumors about them being affiliated with Epstein ger circulated.

Then continue to do that shit to as much of the state government of NYC as possible until the governor caves and pardons him.

Tit for tat.

Don't you love chaos in American politics ?

 

[49ersfootball]

I would not be surprised if several companies were already looking to get out of NYC just because of this even if Trump wins. The optics are not very good.

The following states will be happy to bring in these companies:
1.) DE
2.) OK
3.) MS
4.) AR
5.) FL
6.) KY
7.) SC
8.) VA
9.) GA
10.) TN
11.) WV
12.) NC
13.) AL
14.) LA
15.) TX

 

[Abhorsen]

Except they have no evidence it was intentional. Zero.

See? Now you're arguing a completely different point. You've abandoned your claim that it's a federal crime that the state won't see, and changed it to being a claim about evidence.

The issue? They do have 'some' 'evidence'. Namely that Cohen says he had a phone call with Trump where he got approval for this stuff. They know the phone call happened from phone records, but who knows what was said during that? Well, I can tell you who gets to decide: an NYC jury.

Now that's not enough evidence for a conviction normally. But with a biased jury and appeals going to the state high court not SCOTUS? I'd give a conviction on all or nearly all counts 60/40 odds. This case isn't about evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, it's about getting enough evidence to get a jury to be able to convict because they hate Trump.

The state stuff last I checked is also out due to statue of limitations...
And yep, two years for misdemeanor and five for felony.

Not for the STATE felony charges, or they would have been dismissed. Again, there's a whole different set of laws for that, with different rules.

Eh he can easily appeal based upon biased jury. Or even a biased judge that caused the biased jury.
It can easily be appealed.
Just depends om who gets it upon appeal

Yes, the issue is that it goes and stays in NY state courts throughout the appeals process, and it doesn't go to SCOTUS.

 

[IndyFront]

Judge is completely unhinged, and he basically shrieks at Costello for basically sinking their entire case against Trump. Fucking hell, this is hilarious.

People in the comments are even saying "yeah, we're gonna vote for Trump now" when they were neutral at best before.

Holy fuck, the Democrats just lost the election. Lmaooooo

 

[Jormungandr]

Holy fuck, the Democrats just lost the election. Lmaooooo

Not only that, it's come out that FBI Agents were authorized to use "lethal force" when raiding Trump's home.

While not an outright kill order since he wasn't there, it was basically a "if it happens, if happens" thing they were probably hoping for if he turned up.

Plain clothed and armed FBI Agents.

 

[IndyFront]

Not only that, it's come out that FBI Agents were authorized to use "lethal force" when raiding Trump's home.

While not an outright kill order since he wasn't there, it was basically a "if it happens, if happens" thing they were probably hoping for if he turned up.

Plain clothed and armed FBI Agents.

Holy shit do you have a source for this? I want to post it all over Facebook for my liberal friends and family to see

 

[Jormungandr]

Holy shit do you have a source for this? I want to post it all over Facebook for my liberal friends and family to see

Timcast just covered it in one of his last videos. I can't link it directly because, for some reason, YouTube isn't loading for me at the moment, but check his last three on his channel.

 

[Zachowon]

See? Now you're arguing a completely different point. You've abandoned your claim that it's a federal crime that the state won't see, and changed it to being a claim about evidence.

The issue? They do have 'some' 'evidence'. Namely that Cohen says he had a phone call with Trump where he got approval for this stuff. They know the phone call happened from phone records, but who knows what was said during that? Well, I can tell you who gets to decide: an NYC jury.

Now that's not enough evidence for a conviction normally. But with a biased jury and appeals going to the state high court not SCOTUS? I'd give a conviction on all or nearly all counts 60/40 odds. This case isn't about evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, it's about getting enough evidence to get a jury to be able to convict because they hate Trump.

All it takes is one, and from what I understand NY appeals courts have not ALL been horrible.
Some definitely are not as bad

Not for the STATE felony charges, or they would have been dismissed. Again, there's a whole different set of laws for that, with different rules.

Actually, for the state felony charges.
I looked it up specifically.

Statutes of Limitations for Falsifying Business Records & Embezzlement in NY
The term “statute of limitations,” is basically legal jargon for a deadline. The statue of limitations of a criminal offense is a deadline for prosecutors to file formal charges. In New York, the statues of limitations are based on the offense level of the offense.

For falsifying business records to a second degree, a conviction will result in a Class A misdemeanor. All misdemeanors in New York have a statute of limitations for two years. On the other hand, falsifying business records in the first degree is a Class E felony. A felony offense statute of limitations is five years.

From a NewYork law firm.
This happend before he was president right?
More then five years.
So...yeah, past statue of limitations

Yes, the issue is that it goes and stays in NY state courts throughout the appeals process, and it doesn't go to SCOTUS.

And...yet it can still get appealed

 

[Vyor]

That's not how this works. There's a bunch of issues with this, but the most obvious example is this: given Trump's being tried by a state DA in a state court, it's a state crime.

It's a state crime... using federal statutes.

It's a federal crime.

 

[Abhorsen]

All it takes is one, and from what I understand NY appeals courts have not ALL been horrible.
Some definitely are not as bad

No, it doesn't just take one, as the prosecution can also appeal. It'll go to the NY Court of Appeals (their highest court), and then it'll be a majority rules.

Actually, for the state felony charges.
I looked it up specifically.

Ah. Then you run into the issue that New York has a ton of things that extend the statute of limitations (including not living in New York). Also, the statute of limitations timer got paused by Cuomo during the pandemic as well.

And...yet it can still get appealed

Not to SCOTUS it can't. The NY Court of Appeals is a higher authority than SCOTUS on what NY law says, the same with any other state court.

It's a state crime... using federal statutes.

It's a federal crime.

It's both. There's state statutes involved as well, which create the state part of the crime.

For a more common example of this, take a hate crime murder. That's both under federal and state jurisdiction, so you can be convicted twice for one murder. More, you can have two separate trials for the same murder, so if you are found innocent in one, you can be retried in another.

 

[Jormungandr]

Holy shit do you have a source for this? I want to post it all over Facebook for my liberal friends and family to see

Timcast just covered it in one of his last videos. I can't link it directly because, for some reason, YouTube isn't loading for me at the moment, but check his last three on his channel.

Got it working again; fucking router issues.


Edit: At this point, I think if someone blew up the FBI HQ [e.g. a bomb in their underground parking lot], a lot of Americans would be indifferent at best or outright cheering.

 

[Zachowon]

No, it doesn't just take one, as the prosecution can also appeal. It'll go to the NY Court of Appeals (their highest court), and then it'll be a majority rules.

And...then they can appeal again. And SCOTUS can eventually see it.
Because...this would be a violation of 6th amendment. No impartial jury.

Ah. Then you run into the issue that New York has a ton of things that extend the statute of limitations (including not living in New York). Also, the statute of limitations timer got paused by Cuomo during the pandemic as well.

Alright let's look at what the laws say.

(a) Any period following the commission of the offense during which (i) the defendant was continuously outside this state

okay i see your point...wait...

or (ii) the whereabouts of the defendant were continuously unknown and continuously unascertainable by the exercise of reasonable diligence. However, in no event shall the period of limitation be extended by more than five years beyond the period otherwise applicable under subdivision two.

See, this si where you have a point. They have until 2026 to get him for it then.
Though one could argue that it may not apply to him.
Did the crime happen in New York and or was he a resident of New York during his time in office or was he not a resident of New York when it happend?
Grounds for appeal obviously

(b) When a prosecution for an offense is lawfully commenced within the prescribed period of limitation therefor, and when an accusatory instrument upon which such prosecution is based is subsequently dismissed by an authorized court under directions or circumstances permitting the lodging of another charge for the same offense or an offense based on the same conduct, the period extending from the commencement of the thus defeated prosecution to the dismissal of the accusatory instrument does not constitute a part of the period of limitation applicable to commencement of prosecution by a new charge.

qnd this is just here because maybe they could argue since it got dropped by other courts.
idk. Erased so much i got lazy.

Not to SCOTUS it can't. The NY Court of Appeals is a higher authority than SCOTUS on what NY law says, the same with any other state court.

But, I cam bet you that there has been a SCOTUS case at some point dealing with something that happend with this case allowing it to be seen by them.
6th amendment comes to mind.
Or perhaps the state overstepping its bounds.

For a more common example of this, take a hate crime murder. That's both under federal and state jurisdiction, so you can be convicted twice for one murder. More, you can have two separate trials for the same murder, so if you are found innocent in one, you can be retried in another.

That is likely to get appraled heavily because, any good kawyer would argue it is double dipping.
unless you are saying every murderer could get charged double for thier crimes.

Got it working again; fucking router issues.


Edit: At this point, I think if someone blew up the FBI HQ [e.g. a bomb in their underground parking lot], a lot of Americans would be indifferent at best or outright cheering.

Thats still not a good thing to happen.
Because then it would give the federal government reason to crackdown on the Right unless it is known to be Muslim extremists.
So even still crack down.

 

[Jormungandr]

And...then they can appeal again. And SCOTUS can eventually see it.
Because...this would be a violation of 6th amendment. No impartial jury.

Alright let's look at what the laws say.

okay i see your point...wait...

See, this si where you have a point. They have until 2026 to get him for it then.
Though one could argue that it may not apply to him.
Did the crime happen in New York and or was he a resident of New York during his time in office or was he not a resident of New York when it happend?
Grounds for appeal obviously

qnd this is just here because maybe they could argue since it got dropped by other courts.
idk. Erased so much i got lazy.

But, I cam bet you that there has been a SCOTUS case at some point dealing with something that happend with this case allowing it to be seen by them.
6th amendment comes to mind.
Or perhaps the state overstepping its bounds.

That is likely to get appraled heavily because, any good kawyer would argue it is double dipping.
unless you are saying every murderer could get charged double for thier crimes.


Thats still not a good thing to happen.
Because then it would give the federal government reason to crackdown on the Right unless it is known to be Muslim extremists.
So even still crack down.

I didn't say it'd be a good thing, especially because it'd give the American government a perfect excuse to act even more like Stalinist Russia, just that a lot of Americans would [probably, I should've added] be indifferent at best because of how corrupt the Alphabet Agencies are.

 

[Abhorsen]

And...then they can appeal again. And SCOTUS can eventually see it.
Because...this would be a violation of 6th amendment. No impartial jury.

It wouldn't be. Those almost never go anywhere, for good reason, unless a juror talks and screws up.

See, this si where you have a point. They have until 2026 to get him for it then.
Though one could argue that it may not apply to him.
Did the crime happen in New York and or was he a resident of New York during his time in office or was he not a resident of New York when it happend?
Grounds for appeal obviously

He voted in New York in 2016, IIRC, so yeah, he's a resident at the time of the crime. And obviously, he lived at the white house while in office, so not a resident afterwards, then he moved to Maralago full time afterwards.

But, I cam bet you that there has been a SCOTUS case at some point dealing with something that happend with this case allowing it to be seen by them.
6th amendment comes to mind.
Or perhaps the state overstepping its bounds.

The state isn't overstepping its bounds legally speaking. Trump's a citizen of the state in question when the 'crime' happened.

That is likely to get appraled heavily because, any good kawyer would argue it is double dipping.
unless you are saying every murderer could get charged double for thier crimes.

That's nearly exactly what I'm saying. They can get charged double, and frequently are. It's long established legal precedent in fact. Look up "dual sovereignty doctrine": basically double jeopardy means that the same source can't try you again, but there are (at most) two groups that can criminally charge you for an action, the state and the feds. So they get two bites at the apple.

The one saving grace is that the vast majority of murders aren't actually federal crimes, because of a lack of jurisdiction. The few exceptions include hate crimes (Derek Chauvin got double convicted, for example), crimes in certain areas (Post offices, for example, or a federal court), or crimes crossing state lines.

Now I agree it's some BS, but it won't be overruled here. Plus, it also doesn't apply to Trump as the Feds never actually prosecuted him for this, they just decided not to prosecute. Jeopardy is considered to 'attach' only when a grand jury is brought.

 

[IndyFront]

Shared. Like I said on facecrack, I don't like Trump, but this is clearly over the top...

 

[49ersfootball]

It's a state crime... using federal statutes.

It's a federal crime.

Stirring the Gumbo pot of Chaos

 

[DarthOne]

Got it working again; fucking router issues.


Edit: At this point, I think if someone blew up the FBI HQ [e.g. a bomb in their underground parking lot], a lot of Americans would be indifferent at best or outright cheering.

“Don’t Buy the B.S.”: The FBI’s Excuse for Why It Approved “Lethal Force” in the Mar-a-Lago Raid Is Absurd

"Don't Buy the B.S.": The FBI's Excuse for Why It Approved "Lethal Force" in the Mar-a-Lago Raid Is Absurd - 🔔 The Liberty Daily

If you love the news, check out The Liberty Daily's homepage. (WND)—The FBI now is claiming that Joe Biden, whose actual knowledge of and involvement in that agency’s armed SWAT-style raid on President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home never has been fully explained, didn’t know that Attorney General...

thelibertydaily.com

The bureau, according to the Gateway Pundit, has released a statement in response to the scandalous news confirmed a day ago that those “deadly force” authorizations were given to FBI agents raiding Trump’s home.

The FBI said it, “like other law enforcement agencies, requires the team leader of any search warrant or arrest warrant to complete a standardized form known as an ‘Operations Plan.’ This form, which also must be read by the team leader to all assisting agents, is a reminder of the FBI’s deadly force policy. This is a legal requirement to be included on all Ops Plans and read to agents immediately preceding the enforcement action. The President (Biden) has nothing to do with, and has zero input on, an Ops Plan. This is an internal law enforcement document and a standardized form that FBI lawyers require before engaging in any enforcement operations.”

Nonsense, charged Dan Bongino, a popular commentator and former Secret Service agent who worked in the Barack Obama White House.

x.com

x.com

He said the revelation absolutely is “a big deal.”

“Don’t buy the bullsh** otherwise. It was not a standard op. The MAL raid was an unprecedented action with significant potential for confusion and blue on blue issues and conflict. It also involved competing equities between federal agencies (FBI & USSS) with equal statutory claims to interrupt the other’s activities. Anyone telling you otherwise is either dumb, or playing dumb. I’ve done more deconfliction with Russians in a foreign op I did for the USSS than the FBI did in their search warrant at MAL. Only a dumba** would pitch the ‘it’s the standard paperwork’ line. Go serve a search warrant at the White House in the cocaine case while filling out your ‘standard paperwork’ and see how that works out for you. Wake up.”